View Poll Results: What are you?

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  • Independent

    19 31.67%
  • Democrat

    8 13.33%
  • Republican

    10 16.67%
  • None of the above

    23 38.33%
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Thread: Party!

  1. #1
    420 Member TheOldGuy's Avatar
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    Party!

    Independent, Democrat or Republican? Or do parties suck altogether?
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  2. #2
    420 Member BigKickerSnicke's Avatar
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    Democrat or Republican?

    Hrmm... Nowadays it's hard to seperate the two. Their all elected from the same 'boys club'. The only way for the American government to redeem itself is to get out of Iraq and appolgize for lying to the public.

    Vote Quimby.

  3. #3
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    Parties

    I am philosophically Libertarian. But, the party itself has never really made any headway in American politics.

  4. #4
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    Well, as an anarchist I can safely say that all those parties suck except for the None of the Above option, of course. :p

  5. #5
    420 Member TheOldGuy's Avatar
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    You don't know what the fuck anarchy means.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldGuy
    You don't know what the fuck anarchy means.
    lol, I often get this from people who either don't know what real anarchy is or those hopeless individuals who are destined to be cannon foder for the state. I assure you that I know what anarchy is and I will not bore the individuals here with a fruitless discussion of what actual anarchism is or isn't. Also, there is not ONE system that defines anarchism (I know this statement is a contradiction but bare with me) but all forms of anarchism have several key ideas: no absolute form of government, no ownership of private property (not to be confused with personal property), everyone's treated equal, and everyone is ruled under a system of mutual cooperation between one another. Different forms of anarchism place emphasis on different ideals so there isn't *one* form of anarchy. If there was one form of anarchy then it wouldn't be anarchy. The "Anarchist Cookbook" has nothing to do with anarchy (not to be rude, but I bet you probably thought I was one of those little shits that thinks blowing up people's mailboxes is anarchism) and in an interesting side note the actual author of tha tbook wants it out of print because he's embarassed over the content and the message the book sends.

    This may sound like a pipe dream, but hey, give people enough time and I'm sure they'll make the right choices sooner or later.
    Last edited by Zer0x00; 10-15-2003 at 05:01 PM.

  7. #7
    420 Member TheOldGuy's Avatar
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    I don't think you realize how big of a role government plays in your life, including being on this site. Even Native Americans had a system of government. Animals have government.

    Anarchy describes one of two things. Either it describes utter chaos, or it describes a heaven-like environment in which everyone cooperates with eachother. Though that seems nice, it's pure fantasy.

    Anarchy is not a realistic concept.

    In fairness, yes I did think you were one of those types. Now I think you're the type that has a good idea of what he wants, but doesn't accept the fact that getting what he want means he either becomes an authority or works with authority.

    Government means a lot more than some hotshots working in a building hundreds of miles away. When you go to school, all your friends are a part of a government. You keep eachother in check. If one of your friends were to punch you for no reason, you'd want your other buddies to help you out, right? That's government, and that's what a lot of so-called "anarchists" forget to figure in.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldGuy
    I don't think you realize how big of a role government plays in your life, including being on this site. Even Native Americans had a system of government. Animals have government.

    Anarchy describes one of two things. Either it describes utter chaos, or it describes a heaven-like environment in which everyone cooperates with eachother. Though that seems nice, it's pure fantasy.

    Anarchy is not a realistic concept.

    In fairness, yes I did think you were one of those types. Now I think you're the type that has a good idea of what he wants, but doesn't accept the fact that getting what you want means you either become an authority or work with authority.

    Government means a lot more than some hotshots working in a building hundreds of miles away. When you go to school, all your friends are a part of a government. You keep eachother in check. If one of your friends were to punch you for no reason, you'd want your other buddies to help you out, right? That's government, and that's what a lot of so-called "anarchists" forget to figure in.
    I accept the fact taht sometimes anarchism does seem like a fantasy but in regards to the last paragraph, your school example is also an example of self-government and mutual cooperation (like do unto others), where there isn't a beuracracy (sp?) involved with solving problems or enforcing rules. Yes, the native americans did have a system of government but it wasn't ONE system rulling ALL tribes. I'm not against laws or order I just feel that laws should be created through mutual cooperation and understanding. Because, in all honesty if there wasn't a law against stealing would that mean everyone would go out and start stealing each other? Some would, yes, but one must remember that there really is nothing stopping someone from stealing, kidnapping, or even murder.

    Btw, I appreciate that you took the time to formulate an actual and intelligent response to what I wrote and not just go off cussing and screaming like other people do when I try to explain to them what anarchism is.

  9. #9
    420 Member TheOldGuy's Avatar
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    I suggest you look online for different types of governments, because there are some that fit your needs. I don't think anarchy is the word you're looking for.

    There is no justice in anarchy because there is no one to estabolish justice. Though it might be good for everyone to make it up as they went along, you might not like it when you get your ass beat for looking at someone in a disrespectful manner or some other "wrong" that you might not see as justified by an ass-beating.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOldGuy
    I suggest you look online for different types of governments, because there are some that fit your needs. I don't think anarchy is the word you're looking for.

    There is no justice in anarchy because there is no one to estabolish justice. Though it might be good for everyone to make it up as they went along, you might not like it when you get your ass beat for looking at someone in a disrespectful manner or some other "wrong" that you might not see as justified by an ass-beating.
    Ok, I think I should back up a bit. Under anarchy, there would be no central authority or government. This doesn't mean 100% lawlessness as each individual city, town, village, etc. would make its own laws and rules via mutual cooperation. I understand what you're saying about justice, though.

    There really is no other system I would preach, however. Communism/socialism does provide worker security but also provides for a huge and corrupt government. Democracy/Republic doesn't provide worker security, provides some freedom, but depends heavily on voting and our form of democracy seems to be failing, and I sure as hell don't want live under a dictatorship or any other sort of nationalistic government.

    There is this wonderful FAQ on anarchism on the internet that you would probably enjoy reading:

    http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secBcon.html

  11. #11
    420 Member TheOldGuy's Avatar
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    I was talking to someone about our "democracy" the other day. Doesn't it seem funny how the government is willing to push anti-drug propaganda on us, but they don't tell us to get out and vote? Shouldn't voting be a bigger part of our lives? More people voted for American Idol than for our president.

    Our politicians know who votes and who doesn't. they like who vote, and want to keep it that way because it suits their goals. Just another problem to add to the list...

  12. #12
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    wow, we just hijacked the shit outta this thread didn't we?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4DeuceZero
    it woudl be alot nicer if you could do whatever the hell you wanted. But then the strong would survive, and form a government to prtect the weak. Anarchy leads to government.
    That's a common misconception, as anarchy is a form of government. Also, anarchism isn't against the weak nor does it support the strong. Yes, people would combine to protect the weak but there would be no giant authoritarian (sp?) government. Plus, it's the actual people who would protect the weak. Anarchy doesn't mean necessarily you can do whatever the hell you want. If one could do whatever the hell one wants we'd deteriorate to the level of animals.

    Not that I mind discussing this, as a matter of fact this is probably one of the most interesting conversations I've had in a while, but I would apreciate it if someone would start another thread for discussing this as I didn't want to hijack this thread. I would do it but I feel that I've done my part here but I'm willing to continue discussing anarchism.
    Last edited by Zer0x00; 10-16-2003 at 06:07 PM.

  14. #14
    420 Member wizardBONG's Avatar
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    I am underage.

  15. #15
    420 Member Breathless's Avatar
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    I am Independent, but I don't vote for the Independent party. Like most people who claim to be Independent, they vote for the party that they feel has put the best candidate up for election. At least that's how I see it sense I know a lot of people who are indepedent of labeling themselves to either central party.

    And about Anarchy, isn't saying that Anarchy is a form of government a contradiction to itself, since Anarchy is against a central form of government. I say that, because isn't any government set up, even to rule smaller amounts of people, like in the Anarchy system you explained, a central form of government. It would be, because it would rule over a certain amount of people centralized to the area. Now, I'm not talking about groups of people, but you will always have enough people to where they will be "ruled" over a form of government, because people naturally congregate, and people in general like to be told what to do, or have somebody above them. So even if it isn't a contradiction in itself, it is pure fantasy, since enough people will want someone telling them what to do, or someone will just overpower everybody and rise to the top. "The Lord Of The Flies" expalins this concept well, even though the book sucks.
    Last edited by Breathless; 11-20-2003 at 09:50 PM.

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