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Thread: Stevehman's LED Buyer's Guide

  1. #31
    420 Member JJ Bones's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    You know it really just goes back to our discussion earlier in this thread about a third party reviewer/tester.

    It's hard to know how much info provided is bullshit or not.

    To stevehman's point though, most of the time if you stick with a sponsor you will be likely getting a fair product. Because most members here are quick to discuss any fallacies involved in a sponsor, if there are any.

  2. #32
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Bones View Post
    You know it really just goes back to our discussion earlier in this thread about a third party reviewer/tester.

    It's hard to know how much info provided is bullshit or not.

    To stevehman's point though, most of the time if you stick with a sponsor you will be likely getting a fair product. Because most members here are quick to discuss any fallacies involved in a sponsor, if there are any.
    Believe me when I say I dont mean anything against the sponsors here.

    But often, all it takes to be a sponsor of any internet forum is to throw some advertising bucks out there. It may take some time at the cost of the users that buy a bunch of units (combined) before a strong determination can be made for any given company. *Edit: only later on after complaints would a sponsor then be kicked

    I do feel however that the two sponsors sites I have looked at here for LED's appear to have very nice products. I am just looking for more information as to things I may want to question or ask about to make a better determination for myself on which unit to purchase.

    I am leaning hard one direction presently. But I also dont want to miss something that may be important, while at the same time I could be overthinking it and as such need to be told that as well.

  3. #33
    420 Member JJ Bones's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    I don't look at you bashing any sponsors, you're message is simply, it is in no way a negative message at all, no worries there bro.

    Focus on what you can, review Grow Journals with LED, see how it works for them, maybe even message them. Results will speak wonders.

  4. #34
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Bones View Post
    Focus on what you can, review Grow Journals with LED, see how it works for them, maybe even message them. Results will speak wonders.
    In an effort to blatantly post dribble to achieve 50 posts and ability to message members. Ya, agree with above.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    BTW, I'm usually not as sly as above...oh hey,,,this is 50!

    Edit:
    now, who will be my first victim?
     

  6. #36
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    You ask some good questions. One sponsor list the wavelengths of their led's and the other doesn't. I can see the reasoning for both. Both claim to use 3 watt led's and one of those gives the reasoning for that. " Quantum LED Grow Lights feature High Power 3W LED's, which provide substantially better results compared to 2W-2Chip and 3W-3Chip diodes." In my research, I would have to agree with them 100%. One claims 11 wavelengths the other claims 5. One claims USA made chips the other doesn't state where the chips are manufactured. I find it very hard to believe that all of the chips in that panel are USA made. My reasoning for this is the fact that I have looked for US manufacturers of LED's for UV and IR LED's and have not found a company that is still manufacturing them. I could be wrong, it has happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Most US manufacturers of LED's are focusing on high brightness, high cri LED's for general and architectural lighting. Bridgelux (one of the main US LED manufactures for most of the panels you see around) is not making anything other than white, green, and blue LED's now. Many companies have stopped copying from Cree and are now copying the design of the Luxeon Rebel. Two that come to mind instantly are Prolight Opto. and Everlight.

    It was discussed in another thread about how grow panel sellers/re-sellers are marketing their products with a wide range of different standards. Watts used by the LED's total possible wattage used, count the wattage the fans use or not, and the list goes on. Some vendors do a great job of listing this information, others simply make outrageous claims about their products. This 90 watt ufo replaces a 600 watt HPS (not a real claim that I know of ). You get the point. I'm all for giving the customer accurate information, but I also believe in the rights of a company to protect it's Intellectual Property. I'm actually a little surprised that Advanced gives the exact wavelengths they use. Of course, they are not giving their ratios and you can't blame them for that.

    Also remember that the peak nm of an LED is when driven at said current and has a 10 nm+- range (from most manufacturers) so a 430 nm blue LED will effectively cover 420-440nm wavelengths very well. Most vendors to not run their LED's at the same current the manufacturer test and bins them at. the higher the current the higher the dominant wavelength and vise verse for lower current. The equipment to get those exact readings of what your system is producing is in the high 5 to low 6 figure range (unless you are very friendly with a large University/research institute.

    Just my 2 cent.

  7. #37
    420 Member Magic beans's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    LEDs ddfinitely have advanced over the past couple years. I havent been growing that long but ive done tons of research and seen many results. One thing is for sure: contrary to the classic claim, No, a 180w LED will not compare to a 400w hps in terms of yield if all other limiting factors are the same. BUT i believe LEDs are starting to surpass HPS watt per watt gram per gram. There is tons of skepticism to LEDs mixed with faith in HID lighting that drives many long time HID users to defend their beloved, some in denial that their HID is becominf obsolete. Now dont get me wrong. HID lighting, tried and true, works and gives results, but if the general public istoo scared to throw down some change on new technology, and take a chance, the technology willnot move forward as fast, not to mention prices will stay up.
    Im a researcher. I read a lot. And i am open minded. I thought id take a chance with some LED lights that looked promising, and ahead of the game. I didnt make this purchase with the intent of growing 2 lbs with 360w of leds. I am trying this to see what i can expect from these leds and KNOW FOR MY OWN PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE instead of rely on grow forums and other peoples results.

    Now i know i went off on a bit of a tangeant with that but what im trying to say is when you buy an LED, it is not just a light. It is an investment that will pay itself off in the long run. So if you shutter at the sound of $500 a 180w light or similar, maybe LEDs r not for you just yet. There is no right or wrong way to grow, as long as you get some danky buds in the end

    Most importantly as mentioned before. Do your homework. I would have never known about advanced leds had i not scoured the internet viciously. And im also interested in a few other brands but one thing at a time. To all, dont be afraid to take chances, life isnt worth living without risks.

  8. #38
    420 Member SteveHman's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Magic,
    I agree, you have to scour the internet for information. When I research I look for negative as well as positive reviews. I stumbled across Advanced last year when researching other companies, they have only recently become sponsors here, but I've been using them for a year now. I bought another company's lights to see if I could do better, and I am back buying more Advanced gear.

    @Hosebomber, I will send the guys at Advanced an email and ask about the US made chips in all of the wavelengths. That is a good point you bring up and unless you are doing thorough research, that is information most would take at face value (the manufacturer's claim, not yours).

  9. #39
    420 Member of the Month October 2010 & September 2017 TorturedSoul's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ Bones View Post
    In my readings, I've come across a method of using 12 hours of normal light and 12 hours of solid blue light, to determine the sex of a Cannabis plant without taking it out of the veg cycle; haven't gotten to test this just yet, however seems interesting.
    That is interesting. Especially since cannabis plants will show sex while still in the traditional vegetative cycle. Kind of sounds like that product would be guaranteed to work - just like I'd be guaranteed to get wet if I put on my magic lapel pin that guarantees I can get wet while standing in a downpour.

    EDIT: I wonder if using such a light schedule would provide less vegetative growth than simply keeping "normal" lights on for 18 (or more) hours/day, lol.
    Last edited by TorturedSoul; 08-15-2011 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Had another thought.
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  10. #40
    420 Member SteveHman's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    I was able to get a few of the questions answered by the guys at Advanced on their lights. These are questions both posted here as well as those that were PM'd to me (since Advanced doesn't post to the site directly I wanted to make sure that as sponsors, they had a voice as well):

    Q: One claims USA made chips the other doesn't state where the chips are manufactured. I find it very hard to believe that all of the chips in that panel are USA made. My reasoning for this is the fact that I have looked for US manufacturers of LED's for UV and IR LED's and have not found a company that is still manufacturing them. I could be wrong, it has happened before and I'm sure it will happen again. Most US manufacturers of LED's are focusing on high brightness, high cri LED's for general and architectural lighting. Bridgelux (one of the main US LED manufactures for most of the panels you see around) is not making anything other than white, green, and blue LED's now. Many companies have stopped copying from Cree and are now copying the design of the Luxeon Rebel. Two that come to mind instantly are Prolight Opto. and Everlight.
    A: Yes, all of our LED chips are made by USA brand companies. Although we do not release the source of some of our LEDs due to the fact that our source is just that, our source. We can say though that our company has a strict policy of using the very best USA brand LEDs and enforce this policy using a verified proof of source. With that said, the LED industry is advancing quickly and our new lights will feature the biggest and brightest 3w LEDs from around the world including the USA.

    Q: Do they use 3w chips or 3-1w chips?
    A: All of our new lights will feature our new massive 3w LEDs that have a huge single chip and are able to fit in our new Diamond Series Lens.


    Q: I’ve seen similar lights direct from China, why are these better?
    A: Correct, it's China, good luck and be prepared to buy two lights to get one that works as good as ours because one will probably fail or not be made the way you want it.


    Q: Other companies are using green LEDs, I’ve read they improve yield?
    A: We have tested some ratios of green and continue to test higher ratios among other "Micro" colors. Our current lights will have small quantities of a certain spectrum of green that we have found to improve yields due to reasons we will not disclose. Large quantities of green are not confirmed more beneficial over Macro colors.


    Q: Are the 11 spectrum units that much better than the competitors 6 spectrum?
    A: In a short answer, yes of course, but this is because of the specific wavelengths we count as 11+, not just the number of them. If you targeted 20 different wavelengths than we target you would get very different results. If you had all white LEDs the output of that light would provide almost every different wavelength of light but in very small quantities. We use many different colors of LEDs in our lights and those LEDs produce an output of more than 11 wavelengths that we consider strong enough to count. This of course is up to our interpretation of the output readings which are provided by very sophisticated equipment that is built specifically for measuring light output and yes the equipment costs more than a new car.
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  11. #41
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Nice post, thank you for the information stevehman. I will continue to search for American manufacturers that make LED's. As to the, "it's China"... that doesn't always mean the American product is superior. In most cases this is true but not all. In some cases the Chinese manufacturer only list the min spec on their datasheets, some times it a case of tolerances held, other the datasheets read exactly the same.

    The 11 spectrum, 6 spectrum, 5 or 15 or whatever is being claimed. Your supplier is 100% correct. In most LED's you can count a single LED as technically hitting as many as 20 spectra. I's peak wavelength may be 435 but it will have over 50% effecincy in all spectra between the 425 and 445 range.

    If the new Diamond series has lens, be careful not to get them too close to the plant like you was able to do with older models... you might start getting leaf bleaching around the 8-10" range. I'm not sure what they are suggesting as a distance, but i'm guessing around the 16-20" range.

  12. #42
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    I found a completed grow for Haight Solid State and Hydro Grow LED.
    Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

    Edit was for typo in the name of one of the companies

  13. #43
    420 Member JJ Bones's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by TorturedSoul View Post
    That is interesting. Especially since cannabis plants will show sex while still in the traditional vegetative cycle. Kind of sounds like that product would be guaranteed to work - just like I'd be guaranteed to get wet if I put on my magic lapel pin that guarantees I can get wet while standing in a downpour.

    EDIT: I wonder if using such a light schedule would provide less vegetative growth than simply keeping "normal" lights on for 18 (or more) hours/day, lol.
    From what I've read it can show signs earlier, than waiting.

    Read is in Ed Rosenthal's newest book. Not sure what you mean about a product doing it? It's not a specific product, just a method.

  14. #44
    420 Member SteveHman's Avatar
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Hosebomber View Post
    I found a completed grow for Haight Solid State and Hydro Grow LED.
    Haight Solid State vs. H.G.LED

    Edit was for typo in the name of one of the companies
    I'll ask the Admins to add the Haight grow journal to the post. The other company is a former sponsor and we aren't supposed to reference them. Not to mention some very serious issues with them which I won't go into (Google is a wonderful tool though).

    Thanks for the information, the more input the better guide we can create as a community.

  15. #45
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    Re: Stevehman's LED buyer's guide

    Quote Originally Posted by stevehman View Post
    I'll ask the Admins to add the Haight grow journal to the post. The other company is a former sponsor and we aren't supposed to reference them. Not to mention some very serious issues with them which I won't go into (Google is a wonderful tool though).

    Thanks for the information, the more input the better guide we can create as a community.
    Didn't know anything about the other company being a former sponsor. I just noticed that it was a 420 grow comp. I did a fast google but all I could find where post by one person all over the place giving the exact same info and pics :/. If I need to remove the references please let me know. the link is hosted on this sight.

    Feel free to pm me the info that I lack. I'm a bit of a Gnostic and like to learn at any given chance.

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