Looking for higher end LED lights
thebudking
New Member
I build by own diy lights. If that isn't an option for you, I would recomend pacific light concepts plc300, uses cree cobs and meanwell drivers, the highpoint ragemax 750 or if you have the coin, the spectrum king led. All are US built with quality parts. The unique thing with the highpoint is you can actually change the spectrum with 3 knobs/dials depending on veg, early bloom and late bloom.
I'm currently testing Budmaster LED lights who is a sponsor here at 420 Magazine, you can take a look at my journal or their website but they are definitely high end lights. Built in the UK and using OSRAM LED chips.. They also make a COB (all white version) which I also am testing. Feel free to stop by my current journal and take a look.
Atulip
New Member
Cree Cobs are definitely what you want if you're looking for top end. They also emit a much more pleasant color(white light).
DIY isn't difficult. You can even convert your mars hydro to Cree Cobs. Check growmau5 on YouTube if you're interested in DIY.
For purchasable units, Pacific light concepts and tastyled are the best(and reasonably priced) Cree Cob fixtures I know of.
Budmaster cob uses citiled, not sure of the specs, honestly haven't read much on their efficiency, but the units are overpriced for the light you get, and unless they're 2x the efficiency of Cree(which is impossible), I can't see justifying the same price tag of similar Cree fixtures for half the watts.
Mars Hydro 300(60x5(eBay)) to Cree cxb3590. ~17,000 lumens for 120w. (There's also a couple cxa1512s on here since there was a little spare voltage.)
2 of them in my 2'7"x2'7" tent.
DIY isn't difficult. You can even convert your mars hydro to Cree Cobs. Check growmau5 on YouTube if you're interested in DIY.
For purchasable units, Pacific light concepts and tastyled are the best(and reasonably priced) Cree Cob fixtures I know of.
Budmaster cob uses citiled, not sure of the specs, honestly haven't read much on their efficiency, but the units are overpriced for the light you get, and unless they're 2x the efficiency of Cree(which is impossible), I can't see justifying the same price tag of similar Cree fixtures for half the watts.
Mars Hydro 300(60x5(eBay)) to Cree cxb3590. ~17,000 lumens for 120w. (There's also a couple cxa1512s on here since there was a little spare voltage.)
2 of them in my 2'7"x2'7" tent.
- Thread starter
- #5
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll definitely check out some of the brands mentioned above.
and cool DIY project you did there Atulip.
and cool DIY project you did there Atulip.
- Thread starter
- #6
I just checked out your journal. Cool videos man, definitely subbing up!
thebudking
New Member
A tulip is 100 percent right. The cree is top of the line. I followed growmau5 and greengenes on youtube to build mine. It is not hard to do. If you can drill holes, run a screw driver and solder...you can build a light. I switched to the cree diy almost a year ago from hps and the quality, smell, weight, tricombs.....blows hps away. They run cooler, less power, less ac and a better spectrum.
Atulip
New Member
Heck you don't even need to drill holes. My cobs are held on just with arctic silver 5 and some kapton tape. More than enough to keep these leds attached to heatsinks. Holders would be better, but I figure I'll be upgrading again in a year or so whenever the newer more efficient chips are out lol.
I spent ~$150 total on 2 x cxb3590s, 2x 4.85"x7" heatsinks, then misc costs. Add $65 for the cost of these Mars300s new and for $215 you could straight up buy new mars300 housings, re use the fan and 2 drivers, rip the led board out, upgrade the heatsink, and toss 2x Cree cobs on and it's cheaper than anything you can buy for the same light output.
Full DIY is about the same price, but you can get a more customizable design and use higher efficiency more reliable mean well drivers instead of the cheap ones.
If you're shopping around just be weary of specs you read. Look for a light that tells you the total light output instead of giving some small par chart and claiming 600w is equal to 1200w or something...
Watt for watt the highest efficiency cree chips(~180lumen/watt) are gonna pull about 20% more lumens per watt than HPS(150lm/watt). Then count your reflector loss for hps and they're closer to 50% more light. So ~400w of Cree cxbs = 600w hps just in terms of raw usable light output.
Compared to most companies using ~100lumen/watt chips, watt for watt they're pretty equal to HPS when you factor reflector loss, but they toss in a lot of 90° beam angle leds to focus the light more in the center and do small par charts to boast how they're "double" hps.
I did some lux readings when I made this light, comparing the new Cree convert to another mars300, and a 600w hps. Mainly I wanted to see how the spread of these lights compared.
Mars Hydro 300 eBay model(60x5($65))(135w wall)
12" high, center 33,500 lux
12" high, 12" from center 9,500 lux
18" high, center 21,000 lux
18" high, 12" from center 7,500 lux
600w Hortilux HPS(4 month old bulb)(measurements from center of bulb, higher heights because I can't put it at 12" without torching my plants.)
18" high, center 81,500 lux
18" high, 12" from center 50,500 lux
24" high, center 55,000 lux
24" high, 12" from center 35,000 lux
New Mars to Cree(120w)
12" high, center 65,500 lux
12" high, 12" from center 31,000 lux
18" high, center 38,000 lux
18" high, 12" from center 21,000 lux
Even at 18" high cree vs hps, about 360w of these will surpass my 600w hps light output in the center and the overall spread also. The Mars needs 540w to pass the center of HPS, and like 900w to match the spread at 18" high. Really shows how poor the light spread is(and overall light output honestly)
This is lux readings not par(meter too expensive) and mainly to show the spread. The Cree 3500k, or 4000k has about a 15% better spectrum rating for plants than HPS also.
after extensive research spectrum king 400+ are the best bang for the buck under the right green thumb you can produce up to 2 grams per watt..
JuanCarlos
Well-Known Member
DIY Cree all day.
Atulip
New Member
I'm not sure about spectrum king. Don't have the specifics on what leds they're using or at what efficiency. Their lux measurement is based on a 60° reflector at 24". That's a ceiling light. Hang it 4 feet above the plants to cover a 4'x4'. Based on their specs you'd want the 120° and hang it at 24" and it looks to be 600-650w HPS equivalent.
Looks to be about the same as all the cob tech out now. Just about anything Cree/Vero will put out the same light around the same watts.
Grams/watt is misleading. Space allowed, grow style, and genetics play key roles. Space is often overlooked. 1000w of light in a 3'x3' will not get you the same yield as 1000w of light in a 5'x5'. I've seen people pushing 2-2.5gpw by running low watts in large space.(500-700ppfd) but typically us home growers are limited by space, so we might see 1.5gpw in our smaller space with the same light(900-1200ppfd).
Looks to be about the same as all the cob tech out now. Just about anything Cree/Vero will put out the same light around the same watts.
Grams/watt is misleading. Space allowed, grow style, and genetics play key roles. Space is often overlooked. 1000w of light in a 3'x3' will not get you the same yield as 1000w of light in a 5'x5'. I've seen people pushing 2-2.5gpw by running low watts in large space.(500-700ppfd) but typically us home growers are limited by space, so we might see 1.5gpw in our smaller space with the same light(900-1200ppfd).
Everything Atulip said is right on the money but a sk400+ replaces a 1000w because it as the same foot print coverage but can also handle a 6x6 space with no significant production lost on the far sides and corners...
if you can build your own thats your best bet not cause you'll save but cause u get to tailor your light to your space... alot easier to come up with a design then trying to find which company led lights best suits your situation... it will end up costing you more in research time and your own labour... so dont look at it as an economical way... led lights from certain companies are very fairly priced.
but if you are not trying to built a light yourself... the best light out there that i know of for any 4x4 to 6x6 space is the spectrum king 400+... for the simple fact that it uses a full spectrum it as the largest spread for the amount of watts your using in its price range...
most of the leds companies cannot compete with them in the amount of watt they need to cover space... 440w for 6x6 space is the best u will find in this price range.... which is why u can produce a higher gpw then we are used too....
1 gpw for beginners is easily attainable with this light... making any other light in that price range a waste of money as most light will grow quality weed but have a much weaker footprint then the sk400+. most quality led lights in the same price range can cover a 3x3 to 4x4 area in flower... the sk400+ from spectrum king can do 5x5 to 6x6.
I personally use two sk400+ 120 degress in a 6x12x6 area.... achieving 1.5 to 2.0 gpw with high yielding strains. if you understand what me and Atulip understand.. 440watts led spectrum king can produce 900 grams in the right hands... and will produce better then any other light in the hands of a rookie who didnt do many mistakes...
its the first time i speak about a specific light because ive never felt comfortable pushing any lights before i was never totally satisified until i found the spectrum king.... bml etc... is all better but for the price spectrum king is king!
They also have a sk300+ model that will do awesome in 3x3 to 4x4 spaces... the sk400+ will do awesome in a 5x5 to 6x6 area with the 120 degree lens.
if you can build your own thats your best bet not cause you'll save but cause u get to tailor your light to your space... alot easier to come up with a design then trying to find which company led lights best suits your situation... it will end up costing you more in research time and your own labour... so dont look at it as an economical way... led lights from certain companies are very fairly priced.
but if you are not trying to built a light yourself... the best light out there that i know of for any 4x4 to 6x6 space is the spectrum king 400+... for the simple fact that it uses a full spectrum it as the largest spread for the amount of watts your using in its price range...
most of the leds companies cannot compete with them in the amount of watt they need to cover space... 440w for 6x6 space is the best u will find in this price range.... which is why u can produce a higher gpw then we are used too....
1 gpw for beginners is easily attainable with this light... making any other light in that price range a waste of money as most light will grow quality weed but have a much weaker footprint then the sk400+. most quality led lights in the same price range can cover a 3x3 to 4x4 area in flower... the sk400+ from spectrum king can do 5x5 to 6x6.
I personally use two sk400+ 120 degress in a 6x12x6 area.... achieving 1.5 to 2.0 gpw with high yielding strains. if you understand what me and Atulip understand.. 440watts led spectrum king can produce 900 grams in the right hands... and will produce better then any other light in the hands of a rookie who didnt do many mistakes...
its the first time i speak about a specific light because ive never felt comfortable pushing any lights before i was never totally satisified until i found the spectrum king.... bml etc... is all better but for the price spectrum king is king!
They also have a sk300+ model that will do awesome in 3x3 to 4x4 spaces... the sk400+ will do awesome in a 5x5 to 6x6 area with the 120 degree lens.
Atulip
New Member
Cree Cobs are 115° beam. Veros are 120°
Spectrum king will not replace a 1000w HPS at 440w. And you will not out spread an HPS, it is 360°. 1000w hps is 145,000 lumens. Even with bad reflector loss of 30%, that's 100,000 lumens still directed at the canopy. If someone's not getting enough spread with HPS, it's the reflector, not the technology.
Based on spectrum kings provided light value of 150,000 lux at 24" with a 60° beam angle, that's a hair under 50,000 lumens.
With this data, spectrum king is more comparable to 600w HPS(giving hps a high reflector loss penalty, and giving SK a 20% better spectrum rating for plants.)
It's definitely an improvement over HPS, watt for watt, but nowhere near double.
1000w hps is 145lm/watt. The highest efficiency led chips on the market are gonna get you 200-220lm/watt, ran way below nominal. This SK400+ is pulling 114lm/w.
Spectrum king will not replace a 1000w HPS at 440w. And you will not out spread an HPS, it is 360°. 1000w hps is 145,000 lumens. Even with bad reflector loss of 30%, that's 100,000 lumens still directed at the canopy. If someone's not getting enough spread with HPS, it's the reflector, not the technology.
Based on spectrum kings provided light value of 150,000 lux at 24" with a 60° beam angle, that's a hair under 50,000 lumens.
With this data, spectrum king is more comparable to 600w HPS(giving hps a high reflector loss penalty, and giving SK a 20% better spectrum rating for plants.)
It's definitely an improvement over HPS, watt for watt, but nowhere near double.
1000w hps is 145lm/watt. The highest efficiency led chips on the market are gonna get you 200-220lm/watt, ran way below nominal. This SK400+ is pulling 114lm/w.
JuanCarlos
Well-Known Member
You could build a hell of a DIY Cree with Spectrum King money and I would be willing to bet it outperforms the same $$$ SK light.
Atulip, sk400+ will out do a 600 very easily and give serious competition to a 1000w.... if u want to be technic then it probably replaces a 880w hps.... thats close enough for me.... but 600w is not a challenge for the sk400+... the 1000w will most likely produce a lil bit more... but the quality of buds and the energy saving u will get in return makes using a 1000w absolete...
VladimirPutin
New Member
Don't believe the notion that 1000W HPS is obsolete that's just silly.
The reality is LED tries very hard to reach the key flowering wave lengths but HPS still has more of everything that marijuana wants during the final 10 weeks of its life.
The debate will go on but anecdotal evidence trumps premature hype any day.
Vlad
The reality is LED tries very hard to reach the key flowering wave lengths but HPS still has more of everything that marijuana wants during the final 10 weeks of its life.
The debate will go on but anecdotal evidence trumps premature hype any day.
Vlad
It ain't premature hype anymore... commercial growers aren't switching to led because it doesnt do better then hps... heres one real life scenario where leds out do hps.... this guy i know grows with leds and produces 1.5 lbs per plant.... before he produce the same thing with 1000w hps but now he only using half the wattage to do it.... hps is absolete in commercial grow rooms.... and even more absolete at home.... if having loud fans at home is still your thing thats fine.... but the only reason i have a fan now is to create negative pressure.... not to cool my room.....
VladimirPutin
New Member
Electronic ballasts on HID have replaced the heavy transformer to reduce heat and consumption.
I can get my 250W HPS 6 inches away from the canopy with yes, blowers.
I still call preaching on the LED team... there is still no need to buy a $1000 LED to replace an HID.
Truth be told. I use White LEDs for spectrum mixing. The HPS with some White LED is giving me huge frost and not even on 4th week yet. I have pics to back everything up.
Vlad
And the debate of HPS vs LED continues ...
For OP question, I vote for BudMaster, high quality materials and workmanship. An oh yeah, they help pay for this very site you are using.
Best Of Buds
JB
For OP question, I vote for BudMaster, high quality materials and workmanship. An oh yeah, they help pay for this very site you are using.
Best Of Buds
JB
