Anyone running 400W HPS - Quick question

[bckush]

I'm thinking of adding hps to my grow....my concern is heat. I have a mall cab 33x33x40

I have good ventilation set-up and would use a cool tube...do you think I could keep the heat down?

I would like to go 400 but if heat would be problem than I was thinking of Maybe a 250 instead?

Anyone have an opinion?

 

[JimmyJames905]

Heat would be a problem. You can build a 2 cob led system for around $200 CDN. It'll put out 30000 lumens at only 150 watts.
Half the wattage 1/16th the heat.


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[JimmyJames905]

How many plants can you fit in the cabinet because if it's less that 10 all you'll need is a 150w HPS. But it Max's out at 16000 lumens and still produces a lot of heat. For less wattage the COBs will give you twice the lumens and you can add more COBs as you expand your system.

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[lootznbootz]

Heat would be a problem. You can build a 2 cob led system for around $200 CDN. It'll put out 30000 lumens at only 150 watts.
Half the wattage 1/16th the heat.


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Agreed havent used cobs YET but that is my next purchase 300w 6 cob light from timber.

Your going to have heat from an hps regardless

If you found a way to keep it cool go for it but it might be easier to take jimmys advice and try out a cob or even an led panel from mars...

I love my hid but i hate the heat it gives off more

 

[JimmyJames905]

Agreed havent used cobs YET but that is my next purchase 300w 6 cob light from timber.

Your going to have heat from an hps regardless

If you found a way to keep it cool go for it but it might be easier to take jimmys advice and try out a cob or even an led panel from mars...

I love my hid but i hate the heat it gives off more

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I just sold all my HIDs last summer including a 314w CMH which was bright as hell. Still with a prescription for 20 indoor plants I would have to use 4000w of hid lighting. Now I get away with 600w cob led and the yields are 20-30% larger.


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[JimmyJames905]

Even though the HPS is cheaper to by it cost more to operate.
You need 2 bulbs one for veg one for bloom at $20 each. You'll burn through at least 2 of these per year despite being rated for 24,000 hours(1000 days) So that's $40-$80 a year in bulbs.
They use twice as much power so your electric bill will be double. Plus you'll have to cool them so you'll probably use more AC in the summer.

COBs are rated for 50,000 hours at 200% power or 100,000 hrs at 100% power. That's 11 years before you need to change the cob. Plus they run at 80° as opposed to 300+
The huge benefit is 1/4 the electricity consumption. So after 2 years of running a HPS you can run a COB for 8 years at the same cost. (At 100% power. 4 years at 200% power).
COBs pay for themselves the first six months.


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[bckush]

I get all the math Jimmy...I really do.......can I get my plants 3 inches from cob's?

 

[JimmyJames905]

6" is a little safer but honestly with up to 22000 lumens per cob you can spread that out quite a bit. You can not on the other hand get a HPS even close to 3" from the plants....unless your making baked edibles. Lol


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[Pat999]

Cool tube with air drawn from the outside of the cab would work, but my conversion from inches to cm is too weak now. COB is good but there ain't no way I pay $400 for a 200w COB setup. For that price you might as well get something else worth looking into. If your electricity usage isn't a problem then I would go HPS. You also don't NEED two bulbs, you don't need MH and HPS, such a waste. HPS is good enough. But to be honest brother, if you are looking at small space why not peek at the Perfect Sun Mini?

 

[bckush]

Thanks all for your replies.... and I love the discussion going on here. This is also why I joined this site.

Here's what is going on in my head

I pay .06 per kwh...at 1000 watts my bill for veg is us $1.08 per day and $0.72 a day for flower....I'm lucky I live where electric is cheap!!!!!

Therefore I'm not all that concerned with my bill....
I would be using my pl-l lighting for side lighting and veg and switch the hps on for flower. therefore I wouldn't need a veg bulb.
I think I can easily cool 250 hps or less...I run a 4 inch 190 cfm would use a cool tube and have cooled intake air from inside the house

I only thought of 2 100 or 2 150 as a way to help even the light all the way across the canopy...if a 250 or 200 would work i can do that...I just thought it better to spread it out to make it more even.
Its also easy for me to get lighting pretty much free or really cheap...I check with alot of construction remodels on commercial buildings...led is the new way....I can get mh/hps all over the place for free if I look enough.

Jimmy....You think 1 150 would be enough? Also 6"...on the cob.....I might could live with that once I learn the strains im running and how tall they grow....

With the info at hand...what would you do....honestly.....

 

[JimmyJames905]

I would use the D series Vero's run at 150% power, cooled passively at 20 inches from the canopy. I would do it that way because that's exactly the chips I am using and as with all lights....they spread wider the higher you put them. I dont want 4 COBs covering a 10 inch area each. I want 4 really bright COBs covering a complete 4 foot by two foot area.

Your light height and brightness has to be relative to how much square footage you are trying to cover. Too close and the buds outside of the beam will be in the dark. Too close at max output and you'll light burn your plants.
You want to be far enough to cover all the plants but bright enough that they all receive equal PPFD.
It's a balancing act.


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[bckush]

I would use the D series Vero's run at 150% power, cooled passively at 20 inches from the canopy. I would do it that way because that's exactly the chips I am using and as with all lights....they spread wider the higher you put them. I dont want 4 COBs covering a 10 inch area each. I want 4 really bright COBs covering a complete 4 foot by two foot area.

Your light height and brightness has to be relative to how much square footage you are trying to cover. Too close and the buds outside of the beam will be in the dark. Too close at max output and you'll light burn your plants.
You want to be far enough to cover all the plants but bright enough that they all receive equal PPFD.
It's a balancing act.


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The only problem I see with that is 20" spacing for the light. 8" tall pot leaves me with 12" vertical space to grow....I've seen micro cabs but come on man.....I can't waste that much vertical space...I don't think that is an option....for me....you, can no doubt take a foot of vert space and create some kind of yield out of that...I have no doubt....but I just don't have that kind of skill....YET

 

[bckush]

Hey Jimmy...is there a way to convert flux to ppfd?

 

[JimmyJames905]

Hey Jimmy...is there a way to convert flux to ppfd?

No. But you'll find calculators online and formulas that say you can.


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[JimmyJames905]

The only problem I see with that is 20" spacing for the light. 8" tall pot leaves me with 12" vertical space to grow....I've seen micro cabs but come on man.....I can't waste that much vertical space...I don't think that is an option....for me....you, can no doubt take a foot of vert space and create some kind of yield out of that...I have no doubt....but I just don't have that kind of skill....YET

Use Vero 13's.
you can get them 6" from the canopy and they're only $9 each.


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[Slicknick909]

What about a CMH? I tried the whole LED thing (several mars hydro including a 320 and a 5 cxb3590 COB rig a buddy had lent me for a grow) for a while and went back to HPS, I didn't find any real major advantages with the LED for us that pay less than 0.15/kWh. I do veg with a mars 144 in a 2x4x5 tent though before moving to flower under 2 good old 600w HPS. I do really want to try CMH though! If you're worried about vertical clearance you can go t5ho and basically have the plants almost touching your light, there are some great options for t5ho bulbs now too, I use a 2 bulb t5ho for UV-B in flower in addition to my hps.


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[bckush]

What about a CMH? I tried the whole LED thing (several mars hydro including a 320 and a 5 cxb3590 COB rig a buddy had lent me for a grow) for a while and went back to HPS, I didn't find any real major advantages with the LED for us that pay less than 0.15/kWh. I do veg with a mars 144 in a 2x4x5 tent though before moving to flower under 2 good old 600w HPS. I do really want to try CMH though! If you're worried about vertical clearance you can go t5ho and basically have the plants almost touching your light, there are some great options for t5ho bulbs now too, I use a 2 bulb t5ho for UV-B in flower in addition to my hps.


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I'am currently running 440watts of pl-l (which is just 4ft t5ho bent in half or connected at the end depending on which brand) they are rated at 5000 lumens each.

They work great and give off little heat...they give good penetration down about 16" or so. I just wonder how good they will flower the plants. currently it has 4x 6500K and 4x3500k...I can get 2700k bulbs for it also, Would those be a huge improvement over the 3500k for flower...could I achieve better results in flower if I switch a couple 6500k for 2700k?

I guess with this being my first grow I'm nervous.....I've had people at other sites swear I wouldn't get more than 10 grms out of this cabinet with those lights. I hope to prove them wrong...I think I should easily exceed that.

What I have so far...

Pineapple kush auto....39 days from seed

she still has 3-5 weeks left so I'm hoping they fatten up nicely by then.

Jimmy...vero 13's....I will look into that

 

[JimmyJames905]

You can probably build a Vero 13 or 18 array at 3000k for $125.
But you can get them pretty close.
What week you in of bud?


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[JimmyJames905]

And hey. I was wrong. You can use the 2700k-3000k led bulbs for flower. I didn't realize you were in a really small space. Adding 10 to that light fixture you got at a few inches from canopy would do it.
$38 cost with bases.

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[bckush]

And hey. I was wrong. You can use the 2700k-3000k led bulbs for flower. I didn't realize you were in a really small space. Adding 10 to that light fixture you got at a few inches from canopy would do it.
$38 cost with bases.

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It can all get confusing some time...trying to figure out who's asking what and what did i tell who.....we are getting there though.....Good discussion so far....At least I know I have a couple of options on the table ranging in price and as a newbie I'm willing to listen, learn, and try to apply it as best I can...If I do that my grow should only get better each time.

There may very well come a time that cultivation becomes a way of life for me...but for now I will get my feet wet on a micro grow. I don't really see any money being spent on lighting additions as wasted money as I'm sure my grow will expand sooner than I think.... I can use them in that way.