LEDs or HPS?

[JoetheChro]

In a place where LEDs don't have the same reputation or widespread use that they have amongst you lot over there.

Don't know if this is one question (I do. And it is) or first of many but:

Why do you use LEDs? Is it the quality it produces over bud grown under HPS OR is it the cost?

If it's quality, what sort of LED output (or number of boards, I admit I'm clueless to them) would have to be used to replicate the bud quantity and quality that I'd get using 2x600w hps?

I don't know if I've asked an impossible question or a silly one? I'm completely in the dark about LEDs and maybe even a bit more so after reading manufacturer claims online!

Can someone point me in the right direction or to the 420 exit please

 

[Mars Hydro]

LED grow light will make your buds with more trichomes,tight .For long term growing,you will save electricity bill...such as you will not some extra equipment.LED will provide specific spectrum which growing needed.
if you want to replace 2 pcs 600w HPS,you can check out the Mars Pro II Epistar320/ Mars Pro II Cree 256,each one of them can replace a 800W HPS.They are the new models,with upraged chips and driver,many customer are using them now,they got great results

 

[Weezze]

Why do you use LEDs?

I had a 400w hps, and I switch to led mostly because of heat and noise.
It was an old magnetic ballast, and the cool tube was making a lot of noise too.

I would say that led work really good!

Here's picture taken may 3rd when I receive my Mars Pro II 80:

And here's a picture from yesterday (23 days later)

The other lights are 2x 20w neon (which are 10 years old) and a little ufo led light (which is off for more than week now).

 

[Icemud]

Quality of the final product in terms of THC and cannabinoid content, as well as terpenes will be much higher in LED vs HPS.

Yield really can be better or worse with LED depending on how they are used. If you use LED in the same fashion as HPS, generally the HPS will yield higher (one single high wattage light over a large area) however if LED is used correctly, a LED can actually yield higher than a hps. Its really a matter of getting an even footprint over the canopy, at the right intensity.

LED will cost a ton more up front, but over time may pay off in savings but it won't be anything major. I would say expect about 20% savings in electricity over time. I've seen as good as 40% savings in terms of electricity but this is not typical and geneally requires LED's to be built to the grow area specs. If you are looking for a budget minded light, HPS for cost will blow away LED. If you are looking for a lighting investment, LED will win in most cases. Its a matter of up front cost, or continued cost.

LED puts out the same heat as HPS if the same wattage used. (don't believe the LED company bs). A 600w HPS will put out the same heat load as a 600w HPS, it just puts out heat differently, but the heat in total is the same.

 

[TorturedSoul]

LED puts out the same heat as HPS if the same wattage used. (don't believe the LED company bs). A 600w HPS will put out the same heat load as a 600w HPS, it just puts out heat differently, but the heat in total is the same.

Lol. I consider the heat generated from an LED panel to be worse than that generated from a typical air-cooled HID reflector, even if the amount of heat is the same. Why? It's a lot easier to - separately - vent one's air-cooled reflector than it is to redneck engineer a segregated ventilation run for a panel that has 296 (tiny) individual ventilation slots and four computer-style fans. Much easier to run a duct from outside the grow room to the HID, then right back out of the grow area. More efficient in multiple ways, too.

I have only seen one or two LED panels that were set up with traditional 6" round intake and exhaust ports. I guess the usual generic Chinese LED housing must save them a nickel per unit vs. one designed for the grower that wishes to keep the heat produced by his/her lights out of his/her grow room. Save a nickel, spoil a product. Is that how it goes? Think I heard that one at a Ford dealership....

 

[Icemud]

Lol. I consider the heat generated from an LED panel to be worse than that generated from a typical air-cooled HID reflector, even if the amount of heat is the same. Why? It's a lot easier to - separately - vent one's air-cooled reflector than it is to redneck engineer a segregated ventilation run for a panel that has 296 (tiny) individual ventilation slots and four computer-style fans. Much easier to run a duct from outside the grow room to the HID, then right back out of the grow area. More efficient in multiple ways, too.

I have only seen one or two LED panels that were set up with traditional 6" round intake and exhaust ports. I guess the usual generic Chinese LED housing must save them a nickel per unit vs. one designed for the grower that wishes to keep the heat produced by his/her lights out of his/her grow room. Save a nickel, spoil a product. Is that how it goes? Think I heard that one at a Ford dealership....

I agree with you. The heat based on wattage is the same, but HID with air cooled hoods is much easier to get rid of than LED that blows heat all over your grow area. What I meant by don't believe LED company bs is that almost every LED company preaches that their lights are cooler, when thats a false fact. Thats what I meant to say but for sake of time kept it short.

Also it depends on the materials surrounding the grow, and what they are made out of, the rate of heat transmisison through the walls, and how much IR radiation is either absorbed or reflected by the surrounding materials. All of this can influence which light type is hotter but I didn't want to get all technical.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I like it when you get technical, Icemud. I always seem to learn something. Often, several somethings....

 

[JoetheChro]

I agree with you. The heat based on wattage is the same, but HID with air cooled hoods is much easier to get rid of than LED that blows heat all over your grow area. What I meant by don't believe LED company bs is that almost every LED company preaches that their lights are cooler, when thats a false fact. Thats what I meant to say but for sake of time kept it short.

Also it depends on the materials surrounding the grow, and what they are made out of, the rate of heat transmisison through the walls, and how much IR radiation is either absorbed or reflected by the surrounding materials. All of this can influence which light type is hotter but I didn't want to get all technical.

TorturedSoul tells it true. You've clarified and magnified mate. I think I'm only going to learn by using them so thank you for pointer

 

[Bloodguy]

My flower room has a 600w hps with a 300w led on each side. That way I don't have to pick a side!

 

[JoetheChro]

I've heard of people using CFLs alongside HPS but not LEDs, thanks for coming in with that mate

 

[Icemud]

I like it when you get technical, Icemud. I always seem to learn something. Often, several somethings....

LOL... I try... was trying to sneak in a few posts before I started work this morning so was trying to keep it short. I definitely am happy to help always though and really like that people enjoy my techy/nerdyness lol

Hope all is well with you TorturedSoul! Have a great holiday weekend!

 

[Icemud]

Why do you use LEDs? Is it the quality it produces over bud grown under HPS OR is it the cost?

I forgot to add this in my original post, and thought about it afterwards...

The absolute main reason why I love LED vs HID/HPS is that LED seems safer to me than super hot glass bulbs, so its a piece of mind. I don't know if it actually is safer or not, and probably brand specific as I have seen some horrible LED problems, with melting parts, smoking plastics and all kinds of things... to me I feel safer with LED going while I am away at work, or on short vacations.

When I used to use HID/HPS, even though I had never had problems, I used to absolutely fear the worst when I would leave for a week, that a fire would start, or a bulb would break, or the power would go out and the bulb wouldn't hot fire up (another HID problem) which I basically would hold my breath until I returned to find everything ok....

like I mentioned I don't know if in fact LED is safer, but to me, it seemed to offer a safer piece of mind, therefore now when I leave the house, I don't worry about burning my apartments down.

 

[JoetheChro]

I forgot to add this in my original post, and thought about it afterwards...

The absolute main reason why I love LED vs HID/HPS is that LED seems safer to me than super hot glass bulbs, so its a piece of mind. I don't know if it actually is safer or not, and probably brand specific as I have seen some horrible LED problems, with melting parts, smoking plastics and all kinds of things... to me I feel safer with LED going while I am away at work, or on short vacations.

When I used to use HID/HPS, even though I had never had problems, I used to absolutely fear the worst when I would leave for a week, that a fire would start, or a bulb would break, or the power would go out and the bulb wouldn't hot fire up (another HID problem) which I basically would hold my breath until I returned to find everything ok....

like I mentioned I don't know if in fact LED is safer, but to me, it seemed to offer a safer piece of mind, therefore now when I leave the house, I don't worry about burning my apartments down.

Light fixtures that I'd got relatively cheap in the past (Ive always used HPS) were the scary ones. The HPS I've got now come with a control that can be bought as an extra. It can email me if temperatures start getting too hot (saving crop damage) and rather more importantly will shut itself down once it gets to the 'ready to burn the crop, grower and family heirlooms' stage

Obviously it's still got the dangers you've mentioned and I don't start a grow without having air pressure sensitive electrical extinguishers. For all the worth of the gadgets, bells and whistles I don't think I'd rely on just them to monitor my grow.

I think for my situation it's the HPS for now. LEDs are definitely something I want to try a garden with, I'd like to thank everyone for chipping in and opening up my (hopefully) bud filled horizons

 

[lootznbootz]

I recently switched from 600w hps to the 250w clu kit from timber.
My reasons for never going back

1. Im using half the power of hps
Plants are on par with hps so far
2. The amount of heat i dont have to deal with anymore is such a relief.
3. The light given off is natural white light as opposed to heavy red like hps.
Or red and blue like alot of boards out there.

I may only use hps during the winter months when i can compensate for the heat but then again i have cobs now so it seems pointless lol

 

[lootznbootz]

Who makes those that thing is sexy! Lol

 

[lootznbootz]

Me lol

That is very impressive.

Before i bought my cobs i thought about adding a few mars panels to pair with my 600w...

But i was just gunna hang em all in there somehow.

But you my friend have gone above and beyond with that thing. Lol

Unfortunately my ole lady will kill me in my sleep if she sees i bought another light .
And im not joking those where her exact words lmfao!

 

[Merkle420]

Quality of the final product in terms of THC and cannabinoid content, as well as terpenes will be much higher in LED vs HPS.

Yield really can be better or worse with LED depending on how they are used. If you use LED in the same fashion as HPS, generally the HPS will yield higher (one single high wattage light over a large area) however if LED is used correctly, a LED can actually yield higher than a hps. Its really a matter of getting an even footprint over the canopy, at the right intensity.

LED will cost a ton more up front, but over time may pay off in savings but it won't be anything major. I would say expect about 20% savings in electricity over time. I've seen as good as 40% savings in terms of electricity but this is not typical and geneally requires LED's to be built to the grow area specs. If you are looking for a budget minded light, HPS for cost will blow away LED. If you are looking for a lighting investment, LED will win in most cases. Its a matter of up front cost, or continued cost.

LED puts out the same heat as HPS if the same wattage used. (don't believe the LED company bs). A 600w HPS will put out the same heat load as a 600w HPS, it just puts out heat differently, but the heat in total is the same.

I'm sorry but I very much disagree, I've got my vipar 600 on full all day and I can hold my hand against the glass and it's hardly warm.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I'm sorry but I very much disagree, I've got my vipar 600 on full all day and I can hold my hand against the glass and it's hardly warm.

Are referring to the VIPARSPECTRA Reflector Series V600, lol? IIRC, that LED panel - regardless of the "600" - only consumes 276 watts. Stick two of them into a sealed box (along with another 48 watts' worth of light :rolleyes3 ), turn everything on, and let it sit for a half hour or so, then stick your head into the box and see if the sweat doesn't start pouring.

 

[Merkle420]

Considering 14 watts of cfl is hotter than the 270 watts of leds I still don't believe it. I use leds for work, industrial lighting, they hardly get warm.

 

[TorturedSoul]

14 watts of cfl is hotter than the 270 watts of leds

Huh?!? Only if the LED panel isn't turned on. Think about what you just typed. An LED panel that actually consumes 270 watts, when it is running, produces approximately 921.5 BTU per hour. That 14-watt CFL will produce roughly 47.8 BTU per hour.

Again, place your 99.9% electrically-efficient (lol) LED panel into a sealed box (thermally insulated against heat loss, if at all possible) into a small sealed box and run it for a period of time. You will... quickly... find that you're producing heat.

To be honest, I can't figure out what causes you to feel this way in regards to heat production. I covered the part about how your "600" LED panel is actually only consuming 276 watts. Maybe it is because you're comparing a compact bulb with a boxy panel that is not only larger than the CFL, but in all likelihood has at least one fan (mine has six, so I assume some may have even more) pushing air through the case, which might (I suppose?) make it harder to correctly quantify the amount of heat being produced. (That's why I gave the suggestion to stick it in an enclosed space and make a simple observation.) If that's not it... IDK.

Hey, ICEMUD, if you're reading this thread: You're both knowledgeable and know the correct terms. Can you give this one a shot, lol?