How Many Twist Bulbs?

gato

Well-Known Member
The indoor grow was suspended for a personal reason and am considering an outdoor grow of Autos, but was planning a possible indoor grow towards winter. I current have a couple of 4200 lumen twist bulbs I was using for Veg and Balcony window light for the grow.

If I grow this winter? How many of those 4200 twist bulbs will I need for a decent production? More is no doubt better or an LED, but budget constraints are limiting. I thought to get another twist bulb each month and by the time they would be used...I'd have 5 or 6 of them. Think I read somewhere that 12,000 is the minimum needed?

4 would give me 16,800 and 5 would be 21,000 etc. Suppose 6 would be recommended, but how well will they do with 4 and or 5 of them? Should I expect "full sized buds" (that is a relative of course)? And a decent harvest from that light?

Thanks
 
Go with a minimum of 50 watts per square foot for flowering. More, since you're using CFLs (which aren't as efficient for growing purposes) instead of HID lighting. That'll light your space, then you can fill it with plants to suit.

For the expense and hassle of buying 32,768 (lol) individual puny CFLs, the sockets/cords to power them, and either buying or building reflectors, then setting them up properly so that they are all "side on" to the plants' leaves instead of pointing every which way like I see most of the time in CFL setups, I'd think you could buy a small HPS, decent ballast, and at least a cheap open reflector (although a better one is... better, of course). At which point, you'd be producing more, spending less each month on electricity for the lights and for the cooling, or both.

I'm thinking about a 250- or 400-watt HPS, here. But there was a member several years ago that grew some fine looking cannabis in a small cupboard(?) using only a 150-watt HPS (cheap). And, back in the day, I had been known to use 70-watt HPS over aluminum trash cans :rolleyes3 . Not something I'd recommend (for a few reasons, not least of which the only access was from the top, lol), but it was doable.

It means you would have to throw your extra money into a sock or something each week/month/whatever instead of buying a few bulbs/sockets/extension cords, then make your purchase more or less all at once instead. But it probably wouldn't push your eventual harvest date off into the future to any significant degree. Unless you like smaller plants and less bud, I suppose. Then you could start tomorrow with one little 23-watt CFL. But that seedling light will quickly begin losing ground to HID when your plants are no longer seedlings.

Just a thought.
 
In the past I had a 90w HPS to grow, plus window light. It was a Blueberry and the buds were kind of small, but well formed. Your recommendations of the socking away money sounds better. Wll have to do some checking on the 250 HPS. The 400 sounds better, but budget is budget.

Thanks for the info...a bit clearer thinking.
 
Did a quick Walmart search and found some LED that seemed affordable (using that sock). Not sure how good they are and guess I have to search 420 suppliers for something decent and not so expensive. Any low costs recommendations welcome and thanks!
 
In the past I had a 90w HPS to grow, plus window light.

Interesting. The only 90-watt sodium bulb I have ever seen was a low-pressure sodium bulb (not suitable for growing light-loving plants, to be honest). Perhaps that was a mistype? If not, lol, you'll definitely be impressed with even a 150-watt HPS. Let me see if I can find... Okay, here is one of his threads that shows what he was able to do with a 150-watt HPS:
150W HPS - 18 pics - 9 weeks flower

Your recommendations of the socking away money sounds better.

Been there, done that. I understand that it can be... somewhat challenging to save one's money for a better thing, when one has the option of buying the lesser thing right now staring them right in the face, lol. But it is almost always worth it in the long run, regardless of the things in question.

The 400 sounds better, but budget is budget.

Several years ago, I saved up to... spend way too much money (lol) on a 400-watt HPS bulb, a Lumatek 400-watt dimmable (able to both drive a 400-watt bulb at 250 watts and to actually power a 250-watt bulb (at 250 watts), and - of course, since it's an electronic ballast - able to run either HPS or MH bulbs), and the world's cheapest reflector. Saving up for it was not enjoyable - but cutting down that first harvest sure made up for it, lol.

You can still buy core & coil ("magnetic") HID ballasts. They're heavy, they tend to buzz instead of being more or less silent, they're heavy, they seem to run noticeably hotter, they're heavy... and did I mention that they're <BLEEPing> heavy? But if/when the big bombs ever start falling, cockroaches and magnetic ballasts will probably be the last survivors. And if one ever does fail (somewhat unlikely unless you're young and plan on still using the thing when you're old), you can pick up parts cheaply at most any electrical/lighting supply house and rebuild them yourself.

I'd probably go with an electronic one, but there is always the option. You could make a... usable reflector yourself. You'd still need a ceramic mogul socket (larger than standard residential sockets) and cord set, but that could save you a few bucks. Or spend, IDK, $40 on the el cheapo "wing" open reflector that comes with the socket and cord. You can get a reasonably decent 250- or 400-watt bulb for around $20 or not much more if you look long enough - and that'd tend to give you much better results than spending the same or even a little more for a "general lighting" HPS bulb at a place like Lowes or Home Depot. Many electronic ballasts can run at different wattage settings - a 400-watt one may be capable of using 250-watt bulbs, and a 250-watt one may go down to 150-watts. This could be helpful if your budget is really tight and you need to lower your electric bill either directly or by being able to worry less about artificial cooling (IOW, running your air conditioner). If you intend to grow and flower in the same setup - one complete cycle at a time, as opposed to running a perpetual flower room - then it can be a handy feature regardless of budgetary concerns, because smaller plants can be pushed closer together and lit with less light, then when they get larger and fill your grow room, up the wattage. The same holds true for vegetative vs. flowering (you want more light during flower if possible).

A good 150-watt HPS setup, realistically, is only capable of flowering a three square foot grow room (note that this is NOT a 3' x 3' space, lol, which would be nine square feet). A 250-watt one, five square feet, and a 400-watt one, eight square feet. That is assuming components of reasonable quality and a new bulb that has not degraded over the course of a grow or two. It is also assuming that you are growing indicas, indica-dominant hybrids... or that you don't mind airy buds (lol). If you want to grow an equatorial sativa, you'll want significantly more light for best results. But you can even grow them under the above size/wattage setups if that's all you can afford and you really, really like a good sativa. You'll just find that yield and bud density suffers. The above also assumes you've done the things that allow you to make as full use of whatever light you end up paying the electricity bill for each month, such as not trying to use a small portion of a larger space for your grow (box it in!), that you have either used something like mylar or (more likely) prepped/smoothed the walls, primed, and given them a couple coats of the brightest white paint you can find (flat is best for reflectivity purposes, but it's not a cleanable surface; going with paint that has some sort of finish/sheen will allow for occasional cleaning during the grow (in between grows, one can always repaint), but don't go for gloss. Eggshell, satin, or (if you must) semi-gloss is preferable in the event that you do not go with flat.

The more one drops from optimum conditions, the less effective one's light (whatever size/type it may be) will be, which means in practical terms that it will adequately illuminate less than the theoretical maximum. And those are recommended minimums (again, for flowering). There is no harm in increasing one's light per square foot (within reason). 62.5 watts per square foot seems to be decent for middle-of-the-road hybrids and even some sativas.

The problem with underlighting one's space is that the gardener still has about the same amount of labor/etc. in the grow - but he/she will yield less. Still, ya do the best you can with what you've got (or can afford to get)... and any bud beats NO bud.
 
I had to copy&paste all that in a text file!
:)

Appreciate all that info. Though you're too late on the young part*

Will digest that later and check the forum suppliers to see what they offer. The info you gave helps much!
 
I tried posting this multiple times yesterday, but was in the midst of a severe electrical storm and kept losing power to the computer. I finally gave up. I probably had more to say (I usually do, lol), but have since lost my train of thought. I'll finish the sentence I was typing and post it...

Did a quick Walmart search and found some LED that seemed affordable (using that sock). Not sure how good they are and guess I have to search 420 suppliers for something decent and not so expensive. Any low costs recommendations welcome and thanks!

Friends don't let friends shop at WalMart, lol.

You can get generic LED panels (relatively) cheaply, and at least one of our sponsors has done very well for itself by selling such things. But I still have trouble recommending them to people. A decent 400-watt HPS setup can be had for, IDK $200? A little less? Shop around, get sale items or the cheaper components and the price might be even lower. Change the $40 cheapie reflector to a quality air-cooled ("sealed") unit, add a fan, some other stuff... And in theory you could harvest a gram per watt (400 grams). Those quality reflectors can be a significant chunk of the total, $100 and up. So you've jumped in price, but... Can the same amount of money, spent on one of those generic panels, produce 400 grams per harvest? Speaking charitably, I'd have to guess "doubtful."

Of course one gram per watt is a very high bar to attain, even for those who've got several grows done already. But my point is... what was my point, lol? Oh... I do not really see any real benefit to purchasing such an LED panel. Do they generate less heat? Well... sort of. In practical terms, in a grow room, "a watt is a watt, is a watt." In other words, a 400-watt HPS will produce approximately 1,365.2 BTU/hour of heat (without factoring in losses - an old C&C ballast might consume as much as 450 watts). But here's the thing: So will an LED panel that is consuming 400 watts! But most "400w" generic LED grow light panels are actually only consuming (and producing) 140 to 225 watts. Or thereabouts (it varies somewhat). The "400w" is either made up entirely by the marketing department or else it is the theoretical maximum (for example, if the panel is comprised of 80 "five-watt class" LEDs, they'll call it a "400w LED grow light" when it is in actuality far less). In that case, sure, it produces less heat - because it produces less light.

Other than that... The penetrative ability of a light source that is made up of lots of very low-power LEDs (those "five-watt" class LEDs might - if you are lucky - be driven at 2.5 watts) is far less than that of a significantly higher-powered light source. If you have a HPS and the bulb burns out, you can generally source a decent one (or at least an emergency general-lighting spectrum bulb) locally. Or you can borrow a bulb from someone who changes theirs regularly and keeps the old one(s) for spares. After a few grows, you should have a spare or two of your own. When an LED panel fails (as the cheapo ones have a penchant for doing - see one of our sponsor's threads to see how that goes), you can send the thing back for repair. Or, if given the option (Mars-Hydro gives customers this option), and if your panel has only partially failed, you can take pictures, email them to the company, and wait for them to ship replacement components which you can, presumably, install yourself. Much better than having to send the panel away for a week or six, lol, but still highly annoying if your plants are in the vegetative phase (and a real problem if you are in the middle of flowering).

Having an LED panel that includes fans which blow air through the case and out 1,024 individual vents (instead of a "sealed" air-cooled HID reflector that has 6" (etc.) duct flanges on each side) limits you to ventilating the entire grow room as one entity. OtOH, with an air-cooled HPS/MH setup, you can bring air in from outside of the grow room, pass it through your fixture, and right back out again without it ever mixing with the general grow environment? Why is this a better way? Because that heated air doesn't stink - it's just warm air, and can be treated like one would treat the hot air coming from any other electrical device (desktop computer, stereo amplifier, dehumidifier, et cetera). The air in the grow room, itself... Is now significantly less warm. Therefore, it may be removed at a slower rate (possibly even sporadically instead of constantly). It still smells like cannabis - but, being significantly cooler, the carbon filter in this air path will both work more efficiently and last longer. If one wishes to add supplemental CO₂, this becomes a feasible option.
 
TS...you just destroyed my fantasy!
lol

Now I'm not sure what to do. I guess I'll look at the sponsors and see what they offer.

Thanks
 
TS...you just destroyed my fantasy!

That's what she said.

I guess I'll look at the sponsors and see what they offer.

Always nice to see that.

Remember, there are 18,000,000 things that'll work. Many work well. Some few work great.

In the LED vs. HID (HPS/MH) debate... I'd take a cheap HPS setup over a cheap LED one any day. It's when you've got $1,100 to spend on a light fixture that the choice becomes more difficult. Then again... That'd buy one a whole lot of HID light, lol. For the cost of a mid-priced ($500-$800?) LED setup, you could probably purchase separate high pressure sodium and metal halide setups, your extractor fan, your carbon filter, maybe some seeds....
 
TS

Yes th cheap HPS looks better after reading that. The 90w HPS I got a long time ago at a Lowes. I recall it was high and not low. many year ago though and they may not make them any more. Yes, I get the area thing. I had to calculate planting large numbers of fruit trees and know well square footages.

Thanks...will check the sponsors. Maybe they will have something I can afford that will supply good enough light. I have some Auto's and others for seeds. The grow space is not a permanent setup thing. I planned to use mostly balcony glass for daytime light and have the light(s) hung onto coat hangers and could quickly hide them among the clothes racks. The plants would go into a container large enough to hide them. I have to have everything easy to break down for quick hiding for visitors.

Appreciate the suggestions*
 
I snagged a 150w hps off Amazon for $60 including shipping. Even came with a cheap bulb. I'm very happy with it.

I kind of don't much trust Amazon stuff. I imagine most of it is fine, but the sponsors sounds much better. I just have to sort through them. Sure there are alternatives with Amazon, but I don't do PayPal or the alternatives I saw there long ago and I do not do credit cards....don't even have a credit card. Don't care for them.

Thanks.....150 may ok for such a small grow and I have a couple of 4200 lumen twists to boost it. A little more HPS wattage sounds more attractive, but it is nice to know they can be gotten relatively low cost.
 
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