Bubbleponics - Top-fed DWC - Seedling very slow grow - Leaves curled

Scientific

New Member
Hi -- I'd love to get some feedback about my first hydroponics grow: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 2017

This Dwarf Low Flyer is 13 days from seed, but for about 4 days has had kind of curled leaves and even though the leaves are developing, it's staying 1" tall and does not look healthy to me. I'm guessing maybe I have had the roots too wet even though the water comes from a reservoir with an airstone. If my problem interests you, could you have a look at the more detailed description at the link above? Thanks!

2017-04-02_Day_13_0800_001.JPG
 
It's definitely over watering , ive had that with my current 1st grow , had to early harvest , if its in soil or rockwool i recommend dont water it for a few days (2-4)
 
I seen many plants on here like that and most of the time it is because of the RW.

It can be hard to keep it watered just right and it can trap to much water in it.

I gave up using it a long time ago because it is to easy to have issues with.

I moved over to Rapid Rooters and they work great.

I would pull as much of the RW off as I could with doing to much damage to the plant and then I would try to bury it deeper into the hydroton so the RW doesn't act a wick.
 
It's definitely over watering...

I seen many plants on here like that and most of the time it is because of the RW...
I would pull as much of the RW off as I could with doing to much damage to the plant and then I would try to bury it deeper into the hydroton so the RW doesn't act a wick.

Thanks for the speedy diagnosis and feedback Bas and Duke. It was very much appreciated! :thanks:

I performed an emergency rockwool-ectomy. Pediatric surgery is a delicate business, and I was pretty aggressive, but the patient was drowning/suffocating so I think aggressive treatment was warranted. The patient is back in hydroton and resting comfortably under continuous irrigation. She's in God's hands now. Please remember her in your prayers. :green_heart:

I'll post back to this thread to let you know how she's doing. I have good feeling about this!

Thanks again!
Sci
 
This example of an overwatered plant that I found at another site is exactly what my little seedling looked like--clawed but not from nitrogen deficit. Further confirmation.
overwatered-marijuana-seedling.jpg

I'll give a full update later, but for anyone following this little drama, my seedling not only did not die from having all of it's rockwool stripped off, 24 hours later it's just starting to look like it's not just surviving but just starting to do better (top leaves are less turned down and it looks like its grown a couple of millimeters).

Fingers crossed.
More later...
 
"The biggest cause of slow growth in young plants is overwatering. Cannabis doesn't like having wet feet and it basically stands still when the soil stays wet, or can die if it's too wet." -- Weaselcracker

True dat. Lessons learned the hard way... Hi everyone -- Here's an update. Stripping away the soggy rock wool shroud from my seedling not only did not kill it, it looks like it cured it! :cheer:

Going back and looking at the daily photos, I realize now that overwatering symptoms of slow growth and leaf deformity were visible from day 8. By day 13 they were critical. One of the big symptoms was that on day 13 I was still shooting pictures with the macro setting. The seedling was adding new (deformed) leaves, but staying exactly 1" tall!

She seems to be doing relatively well now, but I think I lost about five days of vegetative growth on an autoflower plant that averages about 60 days to harvest. I'm doing all I can to get her back into vibrant good health. If you're interested, please check out my grow log.

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Tap root emerging from the rock wool.

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Radical rock-wool-ectomy! The stuff stripped off easily, and although I'm sure it damaged some root hairs, the hardy little weed survived. I just put the naked roots right in hydroton.

2017-04-05_Day_16_v_Day_13.JPG

You can see how she has popped back. I expected there to be a day or three of no growth (or even plant death) from shock from the radical surgery, but within 24 hours she started looking better. The old, clawed leaves look like they might be permanently deformed, but even they are looking better. The leaves are also raising their arms toward the light again. And she's GROWING. (In fact the tap root has grown about 1" a day and is now down in the reservoir.)

Thanks again for the 911 support. :)
Scientific
 
One more update since I think this is kind of the second shoe dropping... I was surprised (and a little freaked out) to see the stalk splitting open this morning. (I pulled some pebbles away in the photo so you can see.) It turns out that she's now putting out a massive amount of roots into the hydroton, right up to and above the level of the pebbles. (Details and more photos at the grow log if interested.) She still looks healthy and is still growing!

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New roots busting out all the way up to the surface. (The tap root grew 2" further into the reservoir yesterday, too.)

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Still improving (but still behind) this morning on Day 17.
 
Just one more, I promise. Though she's still small for her age after her week of O2 deprivation, look how fast she's growing!

(BTW, the split stalk looks stable, and ChankyLanky even sent me a picture of how his plant did the same thing at about the same age, so I'm not worried.)

2017-04-07_Day_18_v_Day_16.JPG
 
Seriously, just one more update. I popped the lid when I changed the media this afternoon and was blown away by how much the roots had developed in just 2 days. Once you get the parameters dialed in, these little weeds can GROW!

2017-04-07_1600_Day16_v_Day18_Roots.jpg

Days 16 and 18

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Day 13
 
Where do you put your top fed water pump hose at when you use a rapid rooter? I plan on cutting a small hole in the tube to zip tie it to the basket i just want to know where to position it so i dont choke the plant or anything. Im going to have 2 air pumps and turn the water pump on once every 2:45 hours for 15 minutes since my timed plug only has 8 settings.
 
Where do you put your top fed water pump hose at when you use a rapid rooter? I plan on cutting a small hole in the tube to zip tie it to the basket i just want to know where to position it so i dont choke the plant or anything. Im going to have 2 air pumps and turn the water pump on once every 2:45 hours for 15 minutes since my timed plug only has 8 settings.

The advice I have had from a source I trust is to feed the water to the base of the rapid rooter.

Rapid Rooters look to me to be a lot more forgiving than the rock wool that was the reason for this thread. Rock wool can saturate with and hold enough water to drown a seedling. From what I have seen, Rapid Rooters are much more spongy, forgiving, and easy to use, which is why everyone seems to love them.

Your watering schedule sounds like it should work to me if you are in hydroton. It holds and even wicks moisture well, so it's shouldn't get overly dry between activations, although I think I'd go with something more like 15 minutes out of every 2 hours... Just keep an eye on it and you'll see if it's working OK, then adjust as needed.

Good luck and have fun. :)
 
The advice I have had from a source I trust is to feed the water to the base of the rapid rooter.

Rapid Rooters look to me to be a lot more forgiving than the rock wool that was the reason for this thread. Rock wool can saturate with and hold enough water to drown a seedling. From what I have seen, Rapid Rooters are much more spongy, forgiving, and easy to use, which is why everyone seems to love them.

Your watering schedule sounds like it should work to me if you are in hydroton. It holds and even wicks moisture well, so it's shouldn't get overly dry between activations, although I think I'd go with something more like 15 minutes out of every 2 hours... Just keep an eye on it and you'll see if it's working OK, then adjust as needed.

Good luck and have fun. :)

That was a great save.

Hope she puts out some big buds for you...

Well my system is going to Be a 5 gallon bucket with this set up Hydro Bucket Construction In a 6 inch net pot and im going to keep the water leveled with the bottom of the net pot one air pump in the water bucket under the net pot and one in the entire 5gallon bucket so basically regular dwc with top fed addition. After that small bucket under the net pot gets too small for the roots i will change to regular dwc and still top feed, im only doing it the start of the grow so i can save water and hassel
 
Well my system is going to Be a 5 gallon bucket with this set up Hydro Bucket Construction In a 6 inch net pot and im going to keep the water leveled with the bottom of the net pot one air pump in the water bucket under the net pot and one in the entire 5gallon bucket so basically regular dwc with top fed addition. After that small bucket under the net pot gets too small for the roots i will change to regular dwc and still top feed, im only doing it the start of the grow so i can save water and hassel

That looks like a great setup. :thumb: (I actually bookmarked that link. Thanks.)

If I may offer one bit of advice based on my current DWC experience: get a pH meter, learn to calibrate and maintain it, and keep your pH under good control at about 5.8. That and using good nutes (Flora series is working for me), not too concentrated (half what they recommend), and with that bucket setup, you should be ready to rock.

Oh, and I have been using HydroGuard bacillus culture as insurance against root problems, but I have a feeling that with the great aeration and circulation you should get with that setup, HydroGuard shouldn't be necessary unless maybe your water temperature is getting too high.

But I'm a hydroponics noob, so beyond that 2 cents I'll leave you in the hands of the experts here.

Good luck and have fun. :)
 
That looks like a great setup. :thumb: (I actually bookmarked that link. Thanks.)

If I may offer one bit of advice based on my current DWC experience: get a pH meter, learn to calibrate and maintain it, and keep your pH under good control at about 5.8. That and using good nutes (Flora series is working for me), not too concentrated (half what they recommend), and with that bucket setup, you should be ready to rock.

Oh, and I have been using HydroGuard bacillus culture as insurance against root problems, but I have a feeling that with the great aeration and circulation you should get with that setup, HydroGuard shouldn't be necessary unless maybe your water temperature is getting too high.

But I'm a hydroponics noob, so beyond that 2 cents I'll leave you in the hands of the experts here.

Good luck and have fun. :)

Ive never grown before and i already knew everything u just said except u forgot to mention ppm!
 
Ive never grown before and i already knew everything u just said except u forgot to mention ppm!

After I wrote that it occurred to me that I had forgotten to mention a conductivity meter. So yes, although I think that people can and do get by just using a weekly dosing schedule, a meter is so cheap and gives such useful and interesting information that I think they are indispensable.
 
I am following your progress and wish you the best of luck!

I am about 3 weeks behind you and started noticing some leaf curl on one of my plants today, 6 plants, 2 in coco coir and 4 in a bubble tub. I only planned a grow for 4 plants and did 6 seeds figuring a couple duds...all 6 cracked in 12 hours and had 1/2- 3/4" taps 24 hrs later! Today is their 7th day since being soaked and most are between 3-4" tall with the first real leaves, one is a runt just above the top of the RR plug and the root is growing out the side of the plug, it has its first real leaves like the rest so it will find the way...

I am hoping they are still trying to find way and the leaf curl that you experienced will help me guide them!:thumb:

Keep us up to date!
 
Hey OTM -- My plant did indeed recover as soon as I got the rockwool shroud off of it. It did lose out on some of its vegetative phase growth so it's small (even for a dwarf strain).

Here's a shot into the undercanopy I just took today, Day 40 from seed. She's all lollipopped/defoliated and 17 days into her bloom cycle. :)
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Looking Good :bravo:

I'm doing photos so in 4-5 weeks I will go into flower depending if I don't trash them first! RDWC & indoors are new to me and my last grow was back in 1981 so I need to clean the cobwebs out of my head and remember the process!

Back then I would start them indoors in pots around the 1st of April and by May 1st they were in the ground with waterwalls around them in case of a late freeze (I was close to the 49th parallel) chicken shit & slough water with a little anhydrous ammonia and selective topping would make them into 6-8' trees by fall and 2-3 lbs of pretty good smoke per plant was the norm...life was simple!

Indoors is my only option right now, RDWC & LED's seems to be the way to do it, its a new learning curve for a old dog but with a DIY mentality and the ability to follow the trials, errors, and advice of others here, it just might be successful!

Keep em Green :high-five:
 
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