Stoner moment - Stoner scientist - Or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

[ondercuver]

So bear with me

I have some cal def problems with one of my plants, I know it's my fault and I've taken corective measures that actually work .

While researching the problems and solutions I keep on finding a few PH nutrient absorption charts that are contradictory

This is in regards to Calcium ph abs range , as you can see on this chart 5>5.8 PH

And in this one 5.8>>>>PH

This is just a small exemple of the misinformation and half truths and myths that float around the internet .

 

[dj1714]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

Have seen this too and often wonder why so much difference. I just ph mine to 5.7 and let it drift up.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

Nebula Haze's info at her growweedeasy.com site is usually first rate, so that's a vote for the lower chart.

FWIW, although I love charts like that, since I'm using commercial bottled fertilizer that is buffered, chelated, and formulated using multiple forms of a given mineral so all nutes are available across a wide pH range, I don't fret about pH too much anymore. Just keeping it about 6 seems to work fine.

If you're having calcium problems, you might just need to add more.

 

[ondercuver]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

Nebula Haze's info at her growweedeasy.com site is usually first rate, so that's a vote for the lower chart.

FWIW, although I love charts like that, since I'm using commercial bottled fertilizer that is buffered, chelated, and formulated using multiple forms of a given mineral so all nutes are available across a wide pH range, I don't fret about pH too much anymore. Just keeping it about 6 seems to work fine.

If you're having calcium problems, you might just need to add more.

That's what I think also , the lower chart is closer to reality ....but as long as the other one floats around we'll have noobs like me questioning everything.

I used atami at first and now I switched to GH 3 part system , I'm very sure I don't need to add any more calcium as my tap water is 0.64 EC and I literally live on a lime hill , your nutes (AN?) are not available around here and I wouldn't pay that much in a drain to waste setup like mine anyway, Maybe when I make a RDWC I will consider those . Being able to go on a vacation would be nice

 

[Scientific]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

That's what I think also , the lower chart is closer to reality ....but as long as the other one floats around we'll have noobs like me questioning everything.

I used atami at first and now I switched to GH 3 part system , I'm very sure I don't need to add any more calcium as my tap water is 0.64 EC and I literally live on a lime hill , your nutes (AN?) are not available around here and I wouldn't pay that much in a drain to waste setup like mine anyway, Maybe when I make a RDWC I will consider those . Being able to go on a vacation would be nice

0.64 EC converts to 320 PPM! People call water that hard "liquid concrete"! What is the pH of your water? I'm guessing it must be up in the 8s or so?

It sounds like you don't have a calcium problem, you have a pH and water hardness problem. Have you corrected your pH? Or have you considered what most people do in that situation and just using RO water?

One more thing that sounds really relevant for your water: General Hydroponics makes a special version of FloraMicro called FloraMicro Hardwater.

FLORAMICRO HARDWATER:

If your tap water is over 200 ppm (or contains Calcium above 70 ppm), use Flora Micro Hard water.

If your water contains 30 to 50 ppm Calcium, you can mix our original Flora Micro with Flora Micro Hard water to create a perfect Micro blend for your plants.​

One more question: You aren't using an ion exchange softener, are you? That replaces the calcium with sodium, which is bad news for your plants (and for you if you're drinking that much sodium, but that's another matter).

 

[ondercuver]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

That's why I'm using the GH line of nutes now . Yes PH is 8.4 and goes down to high 7 after 24h of bubling .


I don't understand why I should use RO water when I get ca-mg water out of the tap , girls can take it no problem, actually I had abandoned a RDWC grow this spring with only tap water and canna nutes for dirt ... got a few small trees and never ph-ed or did a res change btw.

0.64 EC is 320ppm
Actually my problems started when I got the dehumidifier water in the res and I didn't water to runoff daily .

Thanks for you input.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

> 0.64 EC is 320ppm
Sorry, right. I edited my post lest my poor math skills confuse someone...

> PH is 8.4 and goes down to high 7 after 24h of bubling .
Here's a question for you: What's that bubbled water's pH after sitting quiescent for another 24 hours? I'm going to guess that it will go back up again. It looks like you have what's called "permanent hardness" from calcium carbonate in your water, and though 24 h of bubbling may alter the reading, it's not going to remove the chalk from your water.

> I don't understand why I should use RO water when I get ca-mg water out of the tap , girls can take it no problem, actually I had abandoned a RDWC grow this spring with only tap water and canna nutes for dirt ... got a few small trees and never ph-ed or did a res change btw.

So... there's actually no problem after all? Now I'm confused...

 

[ondercuver]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

>
So... there's actually no problem after all? Now I'm confused...

If you look at the first chart (the wrong one) it states that Ca is absorbed at 5>5.8 PH ... so in my compleet noobness I ph down the shit out of my poor plants to corect an issue I created myself out of too many "bright " ideas (pouring the dehumidifier condensate water in the res tank )

> bubling for some time removes chlorine+whatever else, it sure is not going to remove that much cal , but plant's don't seem to mind it , I however never drink tap water as I saw what a kidney stone looks like

All I should have done is just use the tap water at the corect 5.8 PH (+-0.1)

Here's beginring flower about one month ago

 

[Scientific]

Re: Stoner moment , stoner "scientist" or just a mistake? Ca uptake chart

> Here's beginring flower about one month ago
Looks good!

Bubbling may or may not remove chlorine. If your water utility is bubbling in Cl2 gas like they do here, then yes. If they add Cl2 in other forms, as many do, it will not bubble out. In any case, in my opinion chlorine in the water makes no difference whatsoever. (I know that some organic farmers freak out about it, but not to worry.) Again, bubbling is not going to remove any of the chalk in your water.

Dehumidifier water should be fine in the reservoir, but of course it's going to be mineral-free soft water, so completely different from your tap water.

> All I should have done is just use the tap water at the corect 5.8 PH (+-0.1)
Your water is so hard that it's almost certainly affecting how the fertilizer's balance even when pH corrected. You might want to email General Hydroponics and ask them about your situation. (They do reply!)

 

[ondercuver]

here's today week ~5 flower

you can see in the back some taco and claw ...

realized ph down was 0-43-0 ... and I have to use a ton because of hard water ... now I switched to other ph down (salpeter acid) they seem to like it a lot .

You guys think the claw will ever disappear? (if I ever balance the nutes)

Some buds smell amazing ... never smelled anything so nice ever , some not so much . i love the girls

 

[Scientific]

The flowers look great! What strain is that?

I can see some taco-ing, which looks like heat stress to me. Those upturned leaf tips are the opposite of clawing (in which the tips hook down). I will guess that the upturned tips are from heat stress too?

> realized ph down was 0-43-0 ... and I have to use a ton because of hard water ... now I switched to other ph down (salpeter acid) they seem to like it a lot .

pH Down is mostly phosphoric acid--H3PO4--so yeah, it's a source of phosphate, though I never knew it was that much(!?) Most of us don't have to use very much so it's not a big deal. How much pH Down per gallon were you adding?

By "saltpeter acid," I assume that you mean nitric acid--HNO3--which would be a source of nitrogen. That's interesting. I certainly like that a lot better than using hydrochloric or sulfuric acid because it adds a necessary element (just like phosphoric) and not a lot of junk (chlorine, and sulfate, which a plant can only use so much of).

 

[ondercuver]

temps in the tent are precisely 27 C with lights on and 20-19 C lights-off , with 3 fans moving the air inside the tent I doubt there's any heat stress, the 600hps(x2) is a good way above the plants on that side at least, the other side I got taller strains .

girls in the picture are White WidowX BigBud (most tacoed) this is from the freebies ... back-left it's a Greenhouse seed Co. Superbud and in the front it may be another White widow X BB and left front Dutch Passion The Ultimate.

I'm not impressed with the freebies genetics , should have done an unicrop off ultimate ... actually I bought new beans this week , but gonna try autos for next round , auto ultimates 8 girls to be exact , hope they'll fill the tent.

You're right salpeter acid is HNO3, damn ... think I'll switch to vinegar , don't need that much N in bloom

 

[Scientific]

Those leaves are definitely taco-ing up (but just a little). I'm gonna stick with my guess that it's heat (maybe combined with light and wind stress too)? In any case, it doesn't look serious. The plants look great.

I guessed that was White Widow. I love the look of that stuff. I think that will be the next strain I try.

You can always adjust for too much P or too much N by adjusting the amount of other fertilizers, at least if you're using a multibottle fertilizer.

I'm curious if you know how many PPMs your water has and how much pH Down you were adding to adjust. Hard water seems to be a common problem around here and I know a lot of people just go with RO water, but it looks like you're making it work with just pH adjustment.

 

[ondercuver]

gonna get out the ir thermometer tomorrow, but my bet is not heat stress it really can't be .

tap water is around 325ppm , but can't give a precise number on ph down I use , I make something like 60L of nutes and eyeball till the desired ppm than ph down till desired ph .

I'm going to give vinegar a chance for a few days... if not happy I'll order an osmosis filter and be done with it ... cal-mag is kind of expensive here though , feels like wasting money

 

[ondercuver]

ok, so the taco's are not from heat , I took temps down to 25c on top of canopy and also dimmed the lights to 440w ...
what might have happened is a monkey fan went rogue and got a bit lower, I made that right and now just waiting for lights on to go check. should be 2 days with lower temps by now some improvement must be visible or there's another problem ... like the PH ...