White Widow First Grow

[philthegeek]

Hi all.

First grow in almost 18 years. Things have certainly moved on since the garage grow in a wardrobe.

Anyway.......

One of the things i NEED are seeds. Went the getting them off friends (a lot fewer of which still have any..we are all older) and all old not germinating. Finally got some named WW, less than 1/2 of which popped.

Started germinating 24/7/17 and transferred to jiffy pots as soon as they popped. Had 10 germinated and planted in soil mix by 10/8/17.

Old White Widow seeds, poor germination rate and spread over 12 days. Seedlings a little weak at first i think?

Seemed to get good root development in the peat jiffy pots i used. They weren't doing much above ground till they had roots starting to show out the bottom of the jiffy pot though.

Now have 10 plants 57 days old from first seed germination, and did 38 days vegetative growth.

Light regime was the Gaslight Routine. 12 hours light, with an hour interruption of the dark period. to stop them flipping into flowering. Substantial saving to electric bill. Slower growth?? Maybe?? First proper grow so nothing to compare to really. Numbers on the electrikery meter are hard data though.

Running 2 x 400W MH or HPS in a 1.2 x 1.2m x 2m GrowTent. 12v 120mm antec computer fan doing nicely for air flow. Temps max out @ 28 degrees C in the day and min to 12-13 degrees c at night.

Watering is from a 20 jerry can on a shelf next to the tent. Have a ball-valve type, 2 dial tap timer. Set that to 3 mins every two days. That lets water flow into the trays the pots sit in. The pots have the holes in the bottom of the pot and sit on sections weed-mat on watering mat felt. That soaks up and distributes the water, and the pots take up as much as they need by capillary action, bottom up. Works a bit like the SmartPots.

Soil mix VERY basic. 50% a mix of River-sand, pine bark fines and peat moss, the other 50% is perlite. No Fertilizer at all. Have used off the shelf Thrive liquid at half strength. Measured pH at the beginning, about 6.5. Added some Dolomite Lime at recently when pH looked to be down around 5.5. But, am going to leave that alone from now on unless i see deficiency signs as i reckon soil has enough buffering to keep me out of trouble. Seems to drain well and i think 50% perlite was the right way to go.

Had a few spotty bits on the young seedlings first leaves. Think i fed them too soon and maybe light too close but they recovered ok.

Anyhow, hit them with 6-BAP @ 50ppm foliar spray on days 6,9,and 14 of vege. Topped them above node 3 on day 12.

Gone nice and bushy, and topped again day 29 of vege. Read a paper abstract that early BAP treatment (in the first couple of weeks) can influence sex expression biasing towards female plants so will see where that goes.

Have done some defoliation to expose branching sites. Was restrained with this and only took leaves shading parts i wanted exposed. Will maybe do some during flowering after they bud awhile.

Took cuttings day 56 as i flipped them to flower (12/12 no dark cycle interruption) and put them in the "spacebucket" propogating box i made up. Light in there is Gaslight at the moment. Will use the clones to do a little SOG run (ok, more a puddle than sea of green) and hopefully get some males and females and so regular seeds, and then do more cuttings after re-veging the main tent plants and go the GA3 route to feminised seeds .

Am cognizant of the current size, vs stretch issue and will see how i go. I guess i am taking the more, but smaller plants approach. Have done a bit of LST, but will plan for that better in the future.

Anyhow, photos below.

22/8/17

29/8/17

06/09/17

14/09/17

18/09/17 (day after flipping to 12/12)

And my "spacebucket / box" for propogation

On lights. I used a proper PAR light meter for the following.

Started using 400W MH and was getting PAR 345 umol in the center of the grow area. Old MH globes.

Swapped to indeterminate age 400W Lucalox HPS and raised the light till i got PAR 710 umol in the center of the grow area. Much better.

Then got two Brand new 400W Sylvania Growlux HPS. PAR 845 umol in the center of the grow area.

Anyhow, running two of these aint cheap,

Have a nominal 600W COB LED arriving next week. May use that to replace the 2x 400W HPS in the main tent.

Alternatively, could put it on the grow box as the epistar based LED on that is borrowed??

Will play with light meter and decide. Really need to cut the power usage.

Anyhow, that's me so far.

I have a 600W COB LED coming next week

in the main tent or propagating box?? Yup, running the LED AND the HPS in the main tent would be a beast, but probably overkill as i'm not running CO2 enhancement.

So, overall objectives here are:

a modest yield of buds from the current main tent crop,
create a stock of fresh regular seed so proper genetics get preserved,
re-veg the main tent crop after harvest so i can take more cuttings,
use those cuttings to create a stock of fresh, feminised seed.

I'm also getting a bit fascinated with the possibilities of the Spacebucket/Box thing. Mainly for "fast" growth cycles under a cheap to run LED. As a personal use grower i'd like to work out if i'm better off doing a series of small grows?

The cuttings i have in there now will go to flowering light pattern as soon as they have roots.

Seeyahs all.

 

[philthegeek]

Arggh. Did the LST a bit hard and noticed a lower branch fully broke this eve.

Main tent grow starting to use a lot more water.

Still, cuttings all seem happy for now although 2 a bit limp.

trying side project using some of the leaf i have carefully defoliated from the plants. slowly dried at 120 degrees C in the oven its actually a pretty decent mild smoke. Anyhow, did a batch for 1/2 hour 120 degrees in the oven tonight, and now have it slow simmering @ 60 degrees in coconut oil for 2-3 hrs as experiment.

 

[philthegeek]

Ah well. Honey thing didn't work. Separates..which in hindsight was pretty obvious.

Will try something similar once i have something more potent that leaf to work with. Probably mix up the infused coconut oil and honey while oil is in solid phase.

Am starting to get pre-flowers in my main tent grow. What looks like 2 boys so far out or 10 plants. Fingers and everything else crossed that i end up with only 2-3 males. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get female pre-flowers so i can get definitive on what to keep in there.

Got my 600W COB LED, and have put it on my "spacebox". PAR measured @ 450umols, which is well up on the borrowed 600W Epistar LED i had on it. Am going to do some more comparisons tomorrow to check that. Cuttings all seem happy arart from a couple that i think will die.

Having a look at the PAR levels from the COB LED.......I'll need another when i can afford it if i use them for the main tent (1.2 x1.2m). Currently running 2 x 400W HPS (Par 650 center of grow area as i raised the lights a bit due to heat). Going to LEDS will reduce power consumption a LOT, but coverage of area, and acceptable PAR at the edges of the grow area is something i need to keep in mind. @ "600W" COB LED's should do me though i think.

 

[OldMedUser]

Getting back into it big time after such a long hiatus eh.

Leaves have medicinal properties for sure but for getting high they suck big time. I got a huge jar of just leaf dust that I'm not sure what to do with. I know the cops would just weigh it and add that to the total they're gonna charge me with so maybe the compost heap is the best place for it. lol

I'm a big DWC fan and am about to add a 4x8' grow space to the grow room I've been doing my thing in the last 14 years. It will be flowering only and will have 4 - RubberMaid® tubs with two plants each on wheeled dollies doing a ScroG thing. Lighting will be a 1000W Super HPS sliding back and forth on a 6'6" Light Rail . Got a new CO2 controller and solenoid but just found out that my cheap CO2 tank can't get refilled and will have to cough up another $250 to get a new tank then another $135 for each refill. WTF!

I'm gonna get a gas powered CO2 generator that can work off my controller instead. My grow room needs heat for 8 or 9 months of the year so that's not an issue plus the burning gas gives off water vapour that will help with my chronic low humidity problem. Natural gas, unlike electricity, is dirt cheap here so I see a win-win for me.

Good luck with your stuff man. Seems the break in growing didn't hurt your skills none.

 

[philthegeek]

Hah! Each to their own , but leaf just fine for a mild buzz.

"My grow room needs heat for 8 or 9 months of the year"

Mine opposite. Will have to shut down i think mid Dec to end March from the heat here.

Nice to meet yah.

 

[OldMedUser]

In '78 I was working on my first indoor grow and would toss all the big fan leaves into a bowl on the coffee table. All the dry stuff would end up as crumbles on the bottom and my buddies could roll all they wanted. Was mild but kept everyone mellow. The little buds I ended up with blew their minds tho as it was the first home grown buds any of us had ever smoked. Was in Calgary and bag seed from Thai Stick, Maui Waui. Jamacian Red Hair and some decent Mexican Sativa. Grew in sheep shit and dirt from my dad-in-law's farm under a dozen T-12s.

My big Newfie/setter cross bitch ate the whole bowl one night and took a week to recover so we had to keep it up out of her reach after that. lol

You must be in OZ or something.

 

[philthegeek]

"You must be in OZ or something."

Something like that. Good Beaches and Hot Summers.

Hard to get seed though. The Customs and Quarantine people means importing a bit risky. Still hopefully ive jagged a good variety and can get seed for next time.

"Grew in sheep shit and dirt "

Lol! Have to admit to a little amusement at some of the stuff marketed at cannabis growers. Its a bit like the baby furniture and accessories thing.

Have to have the very best and expensive or you are an obvious bad parent!! (child or precious plant).

A well drained pot mix, small feeds of commercial liquid fert, and the odd fish emulsh or seaweed treatment seems to do the trick on this weed.

 

[philthegeek]

Latest photo my grow. 7 days into 12 /12 flowering.

 

[philthegeek]

Checked for pre-flowers. Have 1 i am sure is male and 4 others maybe.

Cant complain too much though. Have 10 plants total and getting rid of the boys will give me a bit more light for those left.

Not at the point where i am certain enough to throw anything out today though!

 

[philthegeek]

Ok, definitely able to sex these today as am now seeing female pre-flowers. Looking at the plants today and easy to pick males /females. White pistils on the females and males have bulked out. Actually, i think the males are full on flowering as the flowers are starting to form clusters.

Anyhow, upshot is out of 10 plants, 5 male, 5 female. So, have re-arranged so that all the female plants / female new cuttings are in the main tent under HPS, and 4 of the males and the male cuttings (each plant has a number tag) are in the spacebox under an LED.

Will let the males flower and collect pollen. Then see where my plants are at.

I'll fertilize some of the females with the pollen on a paintbrush. Should be able to do just a few branches that way and leave the rest to be seedless, or if the cuttings are flowering maybe use them. Work out something but priority is to get a stock of regular seed in hand if i take a break from growing, have the wherewithal to start up again.

I reckon i'll probably try and re-veg the plants from this grow. But also, take some cuttings when they are properly flowering (2/3 weeks from now?? ) and see if they re-veg into the branching fiends people seem to refer to as monster cropping, and work on getting feminised seed stock.

And 5 out of 10 not bad. Suspect the BAP is used early on didn't play into that, but i do seem to have bushy little tackers??

Next grow from seed i promise that i will just LEAVE THEM ALONE until they have 4 proper nodes, then top, then LST.

promise...........

 

[philthegeek]

My somewhat depleted tent now that males removed.

All these in flower now and will see where things go.
Female clones are in the tent under 12/12, but have to live with that till the males in my spacebox shed pollen for collection.
The clones seem to be starting to develop little root buds.

 

[philthegeek]

Clones potted up, all had rooted which is pleasing. They are in the main tent for the moment. Will move to the spacebox after male pollen collected from the plants in there.

In the main tent, replaced my 2 x 400W HPS with 1 x 600W HPS Lucagrow. Bigger reflector and actually seems to give better light distribution. Less heat, and now i have a better feel for it i have moved the light closer to the plant tops so am actually getting better intensity as well.

And the early days of developing buds. Am now 20 days after going 12/12.

 

[philthegeek]

Hi all!

So have rearranged lighting. Next grow will be leaving things alone much more and suspect i will get better yield than i will out of this round.

Knowing all my plants are female next time will help too.

Anyhow, tinkering is fun in and of itself. Have had the opportunity to test out some different lighting units side by side with a proper PAR light meter and thought i'd share the results.

They are all cheap and affordable units off eBay. The 600W HPS is old, and running a Lucagrow lamp of unknown hours use. Did also try a SON-T AGRO in that and got slightly better output from the Lucagrow......but can say if that's lamp type or lamp age?? Practically i reckon either of those for HPS lamp would be fine.

Grow Light Comparison Readings PAR u mols m-2 s-1
0cm position for lateral cm is directly under center of fixture

Cheap "600W" "Epistar LED" off the shelf unit. "burple growlight"
Ambient PAR for test 004

Lateral cm 0 20 25 30 50
Hieght cm
30 293 179 139 104 30
50 101 80 77 61 42
100 27 26 25 23 22


Cheap "120W" LED panel off the shelf unit. "burple growlight"
Ambient PAR for test 004

Lateral cm 0 20 25 30 50
Hieght cm
30 74 55 43 34 16
50 35 28 27 24 15
100 14 11 11 10 7


"600W" "COB LED" 2 x COB chips off the shelf unit. "burple growlight"
Ambient PAR for test 000 as in grow tent

Lateral cm 0 20 25 30 50
Hieght cm
30 835 377 230 129 30
50 322 197 144 103 47
100 98 88 80 63 44


600W Lucagrow HPS
Ambient PAR for test 003

Lateral cm 0 20 25 30 50
Hieght cm
40 1067 828 645 600 405

I suspect the way i am heading with lights is the 600W HPS, flanked by 2 "600W" Cob LED units. That in a 1.2m x 1.2m x 2m Grow Tent.

I think that will give me pretty good coverage in terms of watts / m2. With running my "spacebox" at the same time i'll be drawing about 1000w out of the wall with everything on.

Any opinions as to running the COBS only for Vege and then cranking up the HPS for flowering?? Would reduce energy use over the whole grow by a lot. I tried the "gaslight" light regime this time but think i'll go to a more conventional 18/6 for vege next time and see if it makes a difference.

Did a lot of tinkering.

In hindsight should have veged for 2 weeks longer at least to start flowering stage with larger plants.
Used a minimal nutrients soil mix that was half perlite as was worried about overfeeding and added nutrients in small doses often as liquid fertilizer. That's worked i think. Seen no nute deficiency signs and the bottom up watering mat arrangement has worked well with no over-watering issues.....but think growth may have been better if had built up soil more. Next grow will use the same base mix, but will add some granular fertilizer and have much in the way of worm castings / compost to add.

Sorry about tables above out of line. Tried to format properly but goes wonky when post submitted?? You'll work it out though.

Seeyahs!

 

[philthegeek]

So now things settle down a bit i hope.

Collected pollen from the males in my "spacebox". Have tried to pollinate specific branches on the females in the main tent.

When to pollinate for seed production? Advice needed

Will see how that goes. If works will achieve important objective of producing a stock of fresh, regular seed.

Now have clones in my spacebox, 8 female / 4 male. Want to do a "puddle of green" thing and treat a couple of the females with GA3 to try the feminised seed thing. If i can get one or two to throw male flowers will just leave them in to pollinate the rest and grow till the seeds are nice and mature.

Plan now is to just let the females in the main tent do their thang with the occasional feed.

For the spacebox clones, i will probably top them once, after they have a couple of new nodes come in then leave them alone apart from feeding for a while.

For the feminising thing? Anyone out there done this recently? I'm leaning towards using GA3 method since i have easier access to quality plant hormones than i do colloidal silver at the appropriate concentration. However i'm happy to hear advice and opinion on what to do as i am a few weeks away from having to commit to a particular method??

Spacebox thing is useful i reckon.

I want to use later for doing test on seeds i think are feminised. Plant up 20 or so from seed and get them onto 12/12 soon as poss (3-4 weeks??) to get sex expression. Then i guess having got them that far do a puddle of green cropping.

Possible to get a rapid turnover doing that in the spacebox maybe and compare to doing a grow of 4-6 larger plants in the main tent??

REgardless, the spacebox, spacebucket config seems a good way to get useful service out of the cheaper end of the LED market.

Happy fun with growing people.

 

[philthegeek]

All good with the grow. Flowers coming on.

And clones in daH box.

 

[Skullman420]

Ah well. Honey thing didn't work. Separates..which in hindsight was pretty obvious.

Will try something similar once i have something more potent that leaf to work with. Probably mix up the infused coconut oil and honey while oil is in solid phase.

Am starting to get pre-flowers in my main tent grow. What looks like 2 boys so far out or 10 plants. Fingers and everything else crossed that i end up with only 2-3 males. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get female pre-flowers so i can get definitive on what to keep in there.

Got my 600W COB LED, and have put it on my "spacebox". PAR measured @ 450umols, which is well up on the borrowed 600W Epistar LED i had on it. Am going to do some more comparisons tomorrow to check that. Cuttings all seem happy arart from a couple that i think will die.

Having a look at the PAR levels from the COB LED.......I'll need another when i can afford it if i use them for the main tent (1.2 x1.2m). Currently running 2 x 400W HPS (Par 650 center of grow area as i raised the lights a bit due to heat). Going to LEDS will reduce power consumption a LOT, but coverage of area, and acceptable PAR at the edges of the grow area is something i need to keep in mind. @ "600W" COB LED's should do me though i think.

Have found you get a much better light distribution with several small LEDs rather than a big one. Using 4x 200 watt mars epistars in my 4x4

 

[Skullman420]

Caught up with your journal. I have to agree with your conclusions when it comes to LED. Cob seems to be the way to go. Your plants are looking good!

Welcome back to the game

 

[philthegeek]

Yeah, on LEDs i have some parts on order, all due in by end october. Its all by way of experiment.

There is some nice off the shelf gear out there, and well agree that multiple smaller units are better for distribution. There is also a reliability aspect to that.

DeVille's setup[ looks luverly. Going much better than my first grow.

Anyhow, am getting some cheap 50W driverless COB chips. they are cheap enough that failed ones should be ewasy to just replace. Have a friend who can wire them up safely after i mount them up on heat sinks. Am going to enclose the chips behind acrylic for safety as really dont want to get zapped or burn the shed down.

I reckon that i will do them as individual 50W units on a frame to get best distribution.

Any opinions on the benefits or not of mixing LED and HPS?? I'm quite fond of my 600W lucagrow.

 

[philthegeek]

Bugger. Checked plants this eve. Of the 5 females all nicely in flower (day 31 of flower) in my main tent 4 have thrown male flowers and are hermaphrodite. Suspect genetics as these plants have been treated pretty well as far as stress.


Only 1 plant shows no sign of male flowers on close inspection, the rest all had between 1 and 4 male flowers all having well and truly shed pollen.

So, for plant #1 (the proper female) i have 1 plant nicely in flower, and one small cutting. That cutting seems to be doing ok but is definitely not the best of them.

Looks like all the plants in the main tent have been pollinated (swelling calyxes) so will have plenty of seed at least, but plants from these will have hermi tendencies maybe?? Still will be fresh seed and good enough to get started with again if i have a disaster.

So, looks like plan will have to be to grow out the current 5 long enough to collect the mature seeds, but keep anything off my plant # 1 separate as least likely to have hermi tendency.

Then reveg plant # 1 post harvest as a cloning mother plant.

Was going to use the cuttings in my "spacebox" to try and do feminized seed. Some of them are doing very nicely as plants. Canned that idea as dont want to try that with plants that have already demonstrated hermaphrodite tendency. Currently have the spacebox on a 6/2/6/2/6/2 light cycle and plants seem to have doing well and recovering nicely from the FIMiing i gave them on the 12/10.

OK, thinking as typing.

Will shift all the female clones into the main ten so they are under 12 /12 and start them flowering. will be really small but thats ok. Will be some use anyway. My one proper female clone stays in the spacebox.

Also, take some flowering cuttings off my one proper female, pop them into the spacebox to re-veg them. Monster Cropping anyone??

Question though? Will cuttings work taken off a plant that is actually far enough into flowering to be making seeds?? Guess i'll find out??

Seeyahs all

 

[philthegeek]

So...9 days after taking 6 cuttings of my one fully female plant, one is already showing roots pushing out of its jiffy pot. Happiness!!

Considering the cuttings were taken on day 31 of flowering when the plant was actually setting seed im pretty pleased. All i did was cut em, dip in clonex and pop in jiffy pot. If three or so of the others do as well will be great.