First Grow 12/12 No Mercy Style Skunkberry 400W CMH

[Indicana Jones!]

Hi,

Well here it is, my first grow journal!

Grow:

Strain: 10 Skunkberry (I think from Peakseedsbc originally)
Mostly Indica being a cross between skunk and blueberry
Indoor 12/12 from seed No Mercy Style
Soil — 32 Liters of Sea Soil with 5 Liters Perlite and 5 Liters Vermiculite
Light: 400 Watt Ceramic Metal Halide — Open fixture/batwing reflector
Ventilation: 4 inch 170 CFM Vortex fan with carbon filter.
Temps: 88-90 During 'day' and 76ish at 'night'
RH: 30-35%
PH of soil aprox 6.5
No Pests, Only 1 watering so far, no nutes yet — Plan to use Iguana Juice + Sea Tea.

I germed 10 seeds and got 8 good sprouts after 48 hrs and the other 2 cracked 24 hrs later. I germed with paper towel a plate and a bowl. To mimic the no mercy style I have opted to use a soil bed and thus have filled a Rubbermaid container with my mix and have planted my seeds.

After the first 24 hours under the light 6 good seedlings have shown with 1 more starting and 1 empty spot still. After 48 hours all have sprouted and the tallest is already nearly 2.5 inches.

The light is a full 36 inches away though so they're stretching, but I didn't want to cook them either, I'm going to start lowering the light now, say 3-4 inches a night until I hit the sweet spot. As everyone expects here are a few pics of the new family!

Thanks!

Indicana.

 

[OldMedMan]

Hi Indicana Jones!
Love your name.
Thanks for sharing your grow with us.
I'm no expert by any means, but I think having that many plants in one container will lead to problems later on. Your girls will all look for space to grow roots and the fight will be on. Over all I think it will stunt them all somewhat.
There will be others joining you along the way. See what they say.
Best of luck and I will be sticking my nose in to see how things are going.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Hey OldMed, the name came to me at night.. while blazed out of my skull! Probably the first handle I've picked for myself that I've liked! : )

Yeah, having all the plants in one container is NOT how I've seen it done in the past but I like the simplicity of the No Mercy style. So far though the results have been what I read, they're growing like weeds! Although I have to admit since I was worried about starting under HID lighting right away I did have the light nice and high so they're stretching, but I lowered it another 4 inches tonight.

I can't believe how badly I want to water them though.. I'm like a junky having a fit, I have to sit on my hands! But of course over watering is the most common mistake and my preferred method of execution over every other green thing I've tried to grow! The top 4 inches of soil are nearly bone dry but the meter shows plenty of water down below.

I think I'll let them work for their water for another few days then give them a liter with a drop of molasses on Friday night.

Thanks for the input!

Indicana.

 

[PHATBLUNT420]

oh shit bro,
Here we go! Looks like a pretty nice grow is in the works here!
Just REMEMBER when it comes to watering and Feedings never do things by instinct or just because you've an itch to water em.
Always do things very strategically!

+Reps for the luck Bro!

 

[OldMedMan]

PHATBLUNT420 is so right don't water till it's needed. He taught me a lesson about that very thing.

I would say do like I do now. I pick up my pots and see how heavy they are compared to when I just watered them. If they are light then I water. Really can't see you doing that.lol

 

[SkreezlyCorey]

YA YA! good ol' rubbermaid grow! ha, looks good man. sweet setup. like others are saying, it MIGHT get alittle hectic w/ those roots, but i think it might work...but it seems like you got your stuff/schedule down! so best of luck Indicana!
+reps for luck!

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Hi!

I've read a few journals where people have grown in a single bed, the most famous (and my personal inspiration) is Atmosphere over at No Mercy.

The soil was dry fully 5 inches down, and I mean bone dry so I gave them a small amount of water, about 2-3 cups. The RH is low and the temps high so I figure I may have to keep a careful eye on the moisture. I use one of them cheapie meters that does PH, ect, but I use it as a rough guide mostly to check the levels deeper into the bed and use a better digital for feeding, which I haven't done yet aside from a little silica and molasses.

So far I'm not unhappy, I started germing these things on the 17th and now a week later I have seedlings 3 inches tall and so far looking healthy if not a little stretched still. I have lowered the light down to 24 inches and I'll keeping lowering it daily. My temps which started at 90 have dropped a touch to 87 as a high. Still to high but the silica is supposed to help them deal with the heat.

I can't wait until I have something better to photograph than some tall skinny sprout.

Thanks for the words of encouragement everybody, it's really appreciated. Perhaps with any luck this Christmas I won't need to shell out a pile for a holiday stash but will instead by smoking my own!

Indicana.

 

[Setting Sun]

I think it will work just fine. The advantage to having a large volume of medium in a tub is that it's not going to dry out as quickly as individual pots, so you don't have to water as often, especially when your plants are small.

Even though they're sharing space, those tubs provide lots of root space overall, so they should be OK.

It does make it impossible to compensate for plants of different heights, so that's a drawback, especially because the smaller plants will be shaded by the larger ones and you can't move them around to prevent that.

So, it's got its pros and cons as a growing method, but they all do.

I've grown in tubs and have been very satisfied with the results.

very nice pic BTW!

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Thanks SSun, there are always pro's and con's and people will always be willing to argue them. : )

Went into the grow room at 'dawn' to delay the light by a half hour and foiler fed them their sea tea. Then when I did turn the light on I was surprised, I think I'm getting my 2nd set of leaves already!

2nd set of leaves 8 days after being put on paper towel. I can't complain. Although SSun is right about variations in height. I already have one going slower than the rest, but that's okay, I think the soil bed method is about the average rather than the maximum for each plant.

Perhaps not what every grower is after but the style suits me fine so I'll stick with it for now. I hope to one day do a little experimenting with fewer plants and LSTing and even a Scrog grow since already i find myself always wanting to be in there the more hands on approach of a scrog might be my thing. To get ones feet wet and to keep things simple while doing so the 12/12 method is a good one.

I have lowered the light more, it's an open fixture so I won't get it as low as I'd like and on the next round when I do have a air cooled hood I'll be able to get it lower faster. It's now at 17 inches and I have been experimenting and I think 8-10 inches is as low as I can go, but we'll see, I'll drop it more tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone for the encouraging words and support. More to come.. I hope!



Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

+reps for introducing SeaSoil to the community!

Everything is looking great so far. I see no problem with a foliar feeding ~twice/week at this point. Kelp and Molasses should compliment the N-P-K of the SeaSoil nicely. However, I would NOT feed with any nutrients until the plants ask for it. WATER ONLY.

Thanks Andy! The guide for Seatea I read (here on 420 somewhere) was once every 5 days. Last night was my first time foiler feeding.

SeaSoil has a high 'N' content right out of the bag. Some 'P' is also supplied in a good ratio for vegetative growth, while I've always felt that the 'K' percentage was lacking, this will only be a significant concern once you are flowering.

Which SeaSoil did you mix? Orange bag, original mix?

Yeah, the original. I hunted high and low for Essential Soils but everyone was out and since it's late in the year the resupply was going to involve more of a wait and a impatient first timer was willing to endure. That's why I mixed the soil.

Also, how is the drainage in your tub, many holes in the bottom? What kind of water are you using?

Lookin' forward to your progress!

I have a small hole in each corner and one in the center but nothing has come out of any of them at this point. I gave the soil bed 1 good watering (about 1 liter or 1/4 of a gallon) a day before germing and have been testing the moisture level at various depths with a cheap garden moisture meter. I have since given 2 more cups of water twice when the first 4-5 inches of soil reached the bone dry point (each watering contains some molasses and silica). The soil deeper in the bed is still holding moisture that's why I let the bed dry to a depth of 4-5 inches, to encourage them to dig deep!

The water is RO water PH'd after mixing. No feeding yet.

Thanks!

Indicana.

 

[CharlieMopps]

Lookin good, i like to veg 24/0 for 1 week then go 12/12. A light fan breeze will help the plants get strong stems and can lower the temps in your room by a few degrees. Also you can water the plants with a fine mist sprayer, it'll bring up the RH.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Apparently, from speaking with SeaSoil directly, Essential Soils will be distributed thru W-Mart across North America next year. Although, I must point out though, that I was thoroughly UN-impressed with their customer service and product knowledge after speaking with the same SeaSoil lady on three occasions. I still have unanswered questions, and still can't get a callback.

Yeah, I don't know if that's seasoil of the times in general. I can't find a guy at the cell phone place who knows his arse from a hole in the ground, ditto with the doofus at Garmin I talked to about my GPS and the list goes on, especially with the job I do, I deal with these kinds of people daily and find companies are stuffing any warm body into those positions. Warm bodies who really aren't worth much more than their dead weight as fertilizer.

At this time, I've combined two SeaSoil products with a Coco product. I used 3-parts SeaSoil Potting Mix (32L/bag), to 2-parts SeaSoil Container Mix (32L/bag), to 3 parts Plant Oasis AeroCoco (50L/bag). Both the Container Mix and AeroCoco come premixed with Perlite. This makes ~11 cu.ft of potting mix with pH ~ 6.5, and NPK ~ 0.78-0.43-0.1.

Ohhh, I like that mix, I think my next grow I'm going to mimic that.. Unless I hear in the near future that it tanked for you.

I don't imagine that you'll have to feed anything for the first month or so. The SeaSoil has a fair amount of fert in it out of the bag. My only advice, at this point, is too keep an eye on your leaves and watch for signs of Cal-Mag/micro-nutrient deficiency when using RO water, as it can sometimes leach these elements out of your soil.

And be patient with your watering schedule, they are very young and that is a very large tub.

I have put a fair amount of effort towards finding and combining the right products for my base potting mix. So, I am posted up, blazed up and subscribed to watch your results with your SeaSoil mix. Very exciting...

...lovin the pics bro!

Thanks bro! I haven't felt the urge to feed nearly as much as I want to water. The meter says the medium is dry half way down now, that's almost 6 inches, can 9 day old seedlings have roots that deep?

However watering is only one issue faced (new growers always face SOME crisis). Despite having a oscillating fan (on low) that blows across the kids for part of it's arc several of my poor stretched kids are now laying around like a bunch of... stoners.

I know I had the light high initially, but it's been as low as I dare get it for the last light cycles. 8-10 inches from the tops, I have to raise it to take pics. So I think I'm going to have to find something to stake and tie them up. And I had kept a dozen unopened packs of chopsticks for years and tossed them out only a few weeks back.. Now I need them!

My fan comes on with the light, should I have it on 24/7 like the ventilation fan? Are they weak because of no breeze at 'night'?

This has got me using language my mum wouldn't approve of that's for sure!

Thanks for the input everyone!

Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

It's certainly possible for seedlings to have a surprisingly long TAPROOT. However, it's still a very young plant, with little plant matter above the soil and a burgeoning root system that won't require much water at this point. That being said, they are also very susceptible to drying out. A thin young stem like that can be damaged easily if Relative Humidity and water availability drop suddenly. High temps and low RH are contributing to your medium drying out too fast.

I knew I was going to be fighting this. Oddly enough as the plants have grown and the light has gotten closer to them the temps have come down too, peaked at only 86 last cycle. I knew I'd have to keep an eye on the moisture levels and it's why I check at various depths.

The soil being dry a few inches deep is being caused by having circulation fans going, and your lights close. I feel safe saying that most of the water is being lost to evaporation and less to plant uptake. Unfortunately this is a stressful condition for seedlings. Usually, at this point, I would NOT have my Metal Halide closer than 12" from seedlings. It's possible that the young stem tissues are struggling with the light intensity, losing water too quickly on the stems surface and exhibiting an imbalance in turgor pressure that is causing them to pull themselves over. Try bringing the lights up (anywhere between 12-24" should be enough to keep them stout) and observe what happens. Also, cycling your circulation fan is an option. You'll want a timer for this, 15 on/off would be more like natural breezes and decreases the time by half that air flow removes water from the top of your medium.

I have a old analog timer, if it can handle the HPS I'll use it for the 12/12 cycle and the digital to set up a on/off schedule for the fan. Do I want to include any of the dark time in the 'breeze' timing? I'll raise the light up to 18 inches and hope that helps.

This should help balance out the watering and the Humidity. Really keep an eye on your RH, ideally it should be around 50-60% for vegetative growth.
I would take this suggestion from Charlie and start misting the plants rather than adding water to your tub too frequently. Although the top few inches of the soil may be dry, water could be pooling below and creating an anaerobic environment; when the roots hit it, they could be deprived of oxygen.

Due to my situation my plants 'day' is during my night. I get about 90 minutes with them when the light first comes on and I'm already at work when the light goes off so for the bulk of the time no one is around to mist them, but I can mist the soil surface and try and keep the top bit of the medium hydrated before turning in.

With regards to staking and tying.

Nothing wrong wrong with this. It will help decrease stress on the stem and keep them heading in the right direction
Eventually they will stand on their own again.

I have seen many staked and tied but didn't anticipate a need myself so I have no materials prepared. I have twist ties but nothing to stake with, although I'm eying a pile of cheap dry cleaning coat hangars, cept I don't know of painted metal is the best choice of material. I may have to go out and get something... And I was so looking forward to a day in spending time and really doing nuthin. Oh well, a higher duty calls I guess!

Thanks for the help!

Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

First let me say, Andy, thanks for taking the time dude. I have learned a lot reading other weed forums but for sheer friendliness and willingness to help I always come back to 420mag because of members like you. Not that other members haven't been helpful, please no one think that I'm ungrateful, but this is my grow cherry we're talking about!

It depends, are you running both circulation and intake/exhaust fans ?

If you only have one circulation fan, then run it day and night, still cycling on/off every 15 minutes until you can make use of the low RH late into flowering.

However, if do you have both, the dedicated intake/exhaust, that should be running 24/7, will be sufficient air flow during the dark cycle. If excessive humidity and the threat of mildew/mold is ever a concern then you can use both circulation and ventilation fans around the clock (if you have them).

I have a 4" vortex doing the main ventilation, drawing air through a carbon filter and exiting outside. My passive intake is not up to snuff though and I have no means of improving so that's why my temps are so high with the light on. The 2nd fan is a typical 16" oscillating house fan on low, it's primary job is to keep a breeze blowing over the bulb which is in a open fixture. The CMH bulb gets hot but thankfully doesn't throw it's heat heavily in IR wavelengths like a HPS so all I need to do is keep the hot air around the bulb moving (until I can get a vented hood). It's 2nd job is to provide that stem strengthening breeze.

My cheap analog timer is rated for 15 amps so it should handle the light, if it works, it's been in a box with christmas lights for a few years. My digital can only handle 8 on/off programs so a 15on/15off cycle isn't going to doable, so it'll be more like 45 on and 45 off.

**NOTE** While editing this post the analog timer, plugged into my cellphone charger just kicked on, so it works!​

At this point in your grow, even misting them once a day, during the few hours you spend with them, would be sufficient to keep the little ones hydrated without having to add water to the tub.

Do I have to worry about water drops making little prisms and burning little leaves? And you say 'mist' I have a sprayer that holds about 1 litre, how much misting do you think I should be giving them?

Ya know what works well?!?! STRAWS!

Cut a plastic straw to the appropriate length and then slit it lengthwise down the center and install it around the stem. Push the base gently into the soil and it should help prop them up. Keep workin' hard, it's worth it!

I just got back from the local 7/11 where the clerk looked at me funny with my little slurpee and 8 straws. So I'm good to go, what a great idea!



Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

Well here's a little update..

The 45 min on/off for the circulating fan is a bust. Doesn't take the temps 25 minutes to reach 100 with the fan off. So I think I'm going to need to stake and tie for the whole grow or watch all of them fall over.

I have used the straw method for some of them but I don't see it as a long term thing.

And I DO wish I could get the auto-focus on my camera to find the correct object! Blurry plant sharp background.. Gahhh, I'll try for better tomorrow.

Other than a want to fall over they don't look to bad, the leaves are getting big and fat and the color looks okay..

I don't think I'll sleep easy tonight though... I think my kids are in danger! I'm not ready to panic, but I do have worry.

Thanks!

Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

How'd ya sleep? I know it's not easy to rest when things aren't perfect. Things are never perfect enough.

How's the garden? Are the plants re-oriented towards the light?

I slept okay I guess, for a sunday night. I checked the kids this morning, the ones in straws have orientated towards the light, but they're starting to droop over the straws and 2 more required straws as well.

If you are around when your plants start THEIR day, that would be a good time to spray them. Please make sure you use a very fine mist and get under the leaves. Use enough water to cover both sides completely. Spraying the soil probably wouldn't do much except tire your hand out. This time of day, before the light and heat intensify, is a safe time to spray plants without too much concern for burnt leaves. Keep a close watch during this stage. Watch everything about the plant, watch the soil.

Straws can come off as soon as they can stand up on their own. Your call.

I spray them about 10 minutes before the light comes on. The light timer is actually set for 11hrs 45 minutes so I have 15 minutes to work on them before the light comes on. I also plan to hit every 2nd hand and thrift store in the area and see if I can't find a cheap humidifier. Otherwise I'm going to stick a 2 gallon bucket of hot water in beside the soil tub and hope that gives me a few % more.

Thanks!

Indicana.

 

[Setting Sun]

I'm pullin' for your babies bro.

Hope they start perking up.

Got andy covering your back, hard to do much better.

 

[Setting Sun]

I wanna see Dr. Jones harvest on time - the first time!

But you had to know there was a reason SS, that I haven't been as active in threads like yours that are rolling along nicely. Although I read every post everyday.

I've noticed you helping out where help is needed, and although I'm a selfish bastard, and I miss your more frequent visits, how can I hold that against you?

When I was in trouble, you were there for me.

Like I said before bro, you're a mensch!

I'm glad my current grow is rolling along and things are doing well so that you can focus on helping other folks, but I do miss your visits .

I do learn a lot from checking out your advice to others also, so it's all good.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

I wanna see Dr. Jones harvest on time - the first time!

Dr. Jones has the same notion running through his head!

If you can spare the money, this would save you some stress and help stabilize your grow room? Actually, what are you growing in? A tent, a cabinet, your own design?

I grow in a room, but don't use the whole room for the grow. I have acquired a 2 gal per day cool mist humidifier which I'm going to install in there as soon as the 'day' starts. I hope with that and the raised light the kids will start to bounce back. I also hope I haven't stressed them to badly as I'd like to see at least a 50% fem rate.

It IS a learning grow though, but if I can dial it in I'd love to try some of the exotic strains I hear about. I've been prowling sponsor sites like crazy dream shopping for seeds!

Hey SSun, thanks for the support.

Thanks!!

Indicana.

 

[Indicana Jones!]

I do this daily! I have a growing list of bookmarks and tabs...

One of my favorite resources, and the reason I found this site was this thread:800 Cannabis Strains - recently updated

Then the fun begins - trying to find certain strains is more challenging than I could have ever expected, while some strains are virtually gone forever.

800 Strains!?! Wow.... I'm gonna need a bigger grow room.

Here's the latest from Indicana Jones and the Temp of Green!

Previous to last night my RH would start in the 40's and drop to as low as 20%, while my temps have started at 90 and have dropped to the mid 80's. The humidifier (which emptied itself in 12 hours) kept the RH at a rock steady 33% with a low of 30%. Most of the kids are now helped by straws but otherwise seem to be doing okay.

I have a few that seem to be doing okay without straws, so those will probably turn out to be males. Other than the droop issue I see no nutrient deficiencies or signs of other trouble. They seem stunted, vertical growth is slow but the stems are thin so I can't be surprised by that.

So now I guess it's a matter of wait and see. I have delayed the CMH by another 15 minutes to give me a full 30 to mist them while the stoma's are open. Getting the underside of leaves 3 inches off the medium is a trick and I mist them generously. Tomorrow they're due for another Seatea foiler feeding as well. I haven't watered for 4 days either (other than misting) and the meter is reporting the top half of the soil is parched, the middle is moist and the bottom is still 'wet'. I'll probably give them a couple cups tonight while the light is off to see if I can hydrate the top part of the soil a little. I don't have a airstone or anything so to oxygenate the water I simply whisk it like hell for a few minutes.

Here's hoping!

Indicana.