I Don't Know What to Do

I'm frustrated and fearful of what may be happening with my SCROG grow. I just flushed my Blueberry and SSH after two weeks of trying to figure out why white flecks on my leaves got larger and turned tan to brown. I've been removing leaves, checking ventilation, moving lights,...I tried baking soda, milk, dish liquid - nothing. It's like every time I turn around, there's another leaf with a tan splotch on it, but it can't happen that fast, right?

Anyway, I decided to flush them today, but I did it with five gallons of Ph'd water, and then I added one more gallon with 1/2 teas of Cal-mag solution. It was the best I could do, as I have no way to pour 10 gallons of water without wreaking havoc in my bedroom. Fortunately, I did have six towels and two blankets to soak up the water, which I then tossed into the washer, setting it specifically on "Spin," which wrung out enough water for me to finish soaking up the pond in my tent.

So, after this, I start picking off a few of the leaves, but when I looked under it, I found a line of light tan bumps alongside the main stem of the leaf. I haven't found this on all, but I have found a few. The splotches happen here and there on the plants, so one can be found below, in the middle, or at the top leaf of the plants, though they look pretty darn healthy! The damaged leaves look mostly like the photos with calcium and manganese deficiency, but these 'bumps' now have concerned that I may have a mite infestation?

I'll be able to buy some of the SNS on Wednesday, I just hope it's not too late, because I can't bear the thought of having to tell my husband that all the time, energy and effort I put into this SCROG will have to be trashed. Meantime, if anyone is familiar with this type of problem (I can't post photos), feel free to tell me what to do.

I'm so bummed about this. It seems like with every grow, just when I think I'm getting the hang of it, I experience a new setback, something different that didn't happen before. :(
 
Why can't you believe and/or accept that I'm unable to post images? I've directed you the images that most reflect what's happening. Can we get pass the need to tell me the obvious?
 
Uhhh... what?
It was an honest question. Photos would be a great help for diagnosing your plants problems. I do not see where you directed us to any images. I'm not telling you anything. I was trying to help. Good luck. Goodbye.
 
If you can not post photos, can you at least find a photo with a similar problem online? It's as good as impossible to diagnose your plant without a photo, based on only that description.

Does it look like this?
001_-_deficiency.jpg
 
Hi Deville,

I couldn't get these photos up sooner but this is what i'm dealing with right now. I've done so much research, and it's clear that I've got a number of issues here. Mites (never had them before -ever), and I'm thinking two things:

1. This is my first sizeable tent with lights I've never really used before (I've always gone CfL), so with heat, and not enough ventilation (I don't have the whole setup), I'm thinking that's where it started.

2. Being from Sonoma County/Napa Valley, I've been really curious about the whole SCroG, and whether some of the pests and problems usually found in vineyards, will also show itself as more people take on the ScroG.
One nasty buggie in particular , is of the Phylloxera group, and it does exactly what your spider mite does, except that it tends to show up in vineyards and other vine plants, and it's ten times harder to deal with once it's found a home.

That's why I was panicking so much, I've seen the damage done by the grapevine killer, and once it hits, that vineyard is completely blocked off. I'm waiting for the SNS 209/217 to see if this will turn it around, but frankly, every day makes me more nervous about the inevitability. Anyway, I'm just trying to wrap my brain around all this work possibly being thrown out. Sorry I didn't get this in sooner.:(
 
I feel for you cos I'm in a kinda similar situation where I feel like just when I've got one factor 'dialled in' (I've learnt that term here) another shitter crops up to try and diagnose/rectify. With my limited indoor experience (outdoor growing is a breeze in comparison) it sounds like a pest problem (but I've only read about them!) Good-luck & if you keep plugging away, a harvest will arrive eventually!
P.S. I've found this 'web-host' and 420 generally to be so helpful and really easy to navigate. It actually amazes me regularly how obliging the moderators & members are!
 
Hi Anna!
I agree with you, I've never had a problem asking for input or direction here. Moderators are generally pretty cool, and those moments where I "clash" with another member, it's usually a case of misunderstanding or in my case - frustration. Fortunately, that's only happened once and recently.:)

The Crop
I can see it's a definite spider mite infestation, which is amazing, because I've never had this happen inside or outside - ever! I'm from Northern California originally, and I've grown everything Sonoma/Napa County is famous for the "Clay-ey" soil that makes California wine the strong competition it is, so I've been pretty good at staying on top of pest problems.

This came out of the blue, and it's all because I was so used to working with a small tent (12x24x36) and CFLs, that it never occurred to me a change in approach was needed for HPS/MH lighting in a 4x4x80 tent. I dropped the ball in ventilation, I got paranoid over the use of nutrients, my apollo lights were at 100%, led to ->Spider Mites.

What makes this worse, is that it's a SCROG, so I can't tackle this the same way as regular grow. All the lower leaves I have limited access to, so organic spraying above and below will only help so much. I have to be careful how I spray the 'flowers', but I gotta do something before these pests force me to toss the whole harvest out (And that may be the only solution at this point, but i haven't heard or read of anyone who has even posted photos on having to do that).

So, I ordered the sns209/217 from their site (They're offering wonderful samples for free, and you only pay shipping/handling), but I needed to do take some immediate steps, because what they say about the spider mite is true - I've pulled every single leaf off the upper scrog to where all you saw was the flowers and leaves. I walked away for about an hour, and guess what? There was evidence of damage on leaves that were untouched! I tested over and over, and it's true - these bastards have the potential of destroying whole crops within a 24 hour period if not addressed! You probably know this, though, right? :)
"
So I did the Canola, dish and water spray (made the leaves look horrible), but tomorrow I'm going to use "Mite Massacre Spider Mite/Powdery Mildew, and then I'm going to try using an electronic insect repellant, which I know works, but not sure if they'll help here (There are a few people who have told me it works). So, now that i have this problem that will never fully go away, I'm going to have to get organic on these 'arachnids' and back it up with the soothing sounds of high-pitch frequencies, that guarantee to confuse, mesmerize and cause their tiny, microscopic bodies and eggs to explode!

If this doesn't work, the next step is Mite Predators. I'll let you know how it goes.:)
,
 
Oh jeeezus...that sounds completely frustrating and I have no experience with them...yet. I had no real comprehension of how much work and money is necessary for indoor growing whilst I planned this little hobby! And I'm in a similar situation atm, where I've done everything I thought I was supposed to but all of a sudden everything has deteriorated majorly.
My veg tent was out in my studio and everything was looking great....then last week, the studio was broken into overnight and they ripped up the biggest plants and took my 300W LED - which wasn't an expensive one fortunately. They left the 2 x 600W LED's.
I'd been setting up my new flower tent in my spare room in my house, so I moved the remaining plants and quickly whacked up one of my 2 x 600W HPS lights into that.
At the same time, my new AN Ph Perfect Micro, Grow, Bloom nutes arrived, so I started them in that.
I also transplanted most of the plants except a few left in Solo Cups cos they were regular seeds and I'm not that invested compared to my fem seeds plants!
Anyway, check this poor thing out:
IMG_039052.JPG

(I found out just today that it's actually not that yellow colour in real life - it's just the HPS 'glow' but the spindly leaves and stunted growth for a week is the shitter!)
And the ones I put in 5 gallon fabric pots:
IMG_037349.JPG

So droopy, sad and also stunted growth.
I've tried letting them dry out in case it was over-watered but no improvement. I've dropped the humidity...nothing. I've added more CO2...forget it.
Anyway, I'm out of ideas and the thought of losing them before I even get to flip to 12/12 is heartbreaking. SO...I know how you feel!!
Please do let me know how the Spider-Mite War goes. I'm backing you in this next battle tbh. It sounds like you just might kill the little fuckers with the zappers.
P.S. I live in Western Australia which is remarkably similar to Southern California actually! West Coasts are the Best Coasts I always say.
 
Hey Anna!

I'm so sorry you're going thru all that!! Noone's given any advice on what to do? Spindly plants usually mean 'stretching' and since you're using LEDs, that might be the culprit. I don't do LEDs - yet - but I typed in the Yahoo search engine, "spindly leaves in a grow tent," and it pointed to the same solution, which was to bring the lights closer to the plant. It also said something about a particular light in the spectrum might be weak? Don't take my word for it though. I used to think I was knowledgeable enough to not do the damage I've done, but apparently, I keep proving myself wrong! lol

That's terrible about your break-in! Is that something that happens often in your area? What a pain. That's interesting about the similarities between So. Cal and Western Australia. My home is now in Northern Cal (Sonoma/Napa Valley), but we've been transplanted in the Midwest until next year. Blecchhh. Many, many years ago, I had an Aussie friend who'd come back to the states with a few bottles of this wine, called, "Roos Leap." Ever hear of it?
 
Hey Anna!

I'm so sorry you're going thru all that!! Noone's given any advice on what to do? Spindly plants usually mean 'stretching' and since you're using LEDs, that might be the culprit. I don't do LEDs - yet - but I typed in the Yahoo search engine, "spindly leaves in a grow tent," and it pointed to the same solution, which was to bring the lights closer to the plant. It also said something about a particular light in the spectrum might be weak? Don't take my word for it though. I used to think I was knowledgeable enough to not do the damage I've done, but apparently, I keep proving myself wrong! lol

That's terrible about your break-in! Is that something that happens often in your area? What a pain. That's interesting about the similarities between So. Cal and Western Australia. My home is now in Northern Cal (Sonoma/Napa Valley), but we've been transplanted in the Midwest until next year. Blecchhh. Many, many years ago, I had an Aussie friend who'd come back to the states with a few bottles of this wine, called, "Roos Leap." Ever hear of it?
I've noticed on this site that u won't get much help without a pic
 
That's true, Blaze. Without an image, you get ignored. I've been on computers since the mid 80's, and a member of HighTimes when they first hit the boards, so I'm amazed at how much help they and the members were without a photo.
I think it had something to do with being able to tell a convey a message using their "words."

But I finally got the answers I needed by phone, so all is well for now.
 
If it's mites and you can't use conventional methods like foliar sprays. I would go for ozone.

The mength needed to kill of a serious infestation though may also hurt the plants. But mites will hurt them more.

If you consider ozone, please let me know so I can show you how to do it safely. Never use ozone without knowing what you are doing. It's very very dangerous
 
If it's mites and you can't use conventional methods like foliar sprays. I would go for ozone.

The mength needed to kill of a serious infestation though may also hurt the plants. But mites will hurt them more.

If you consider ozone, please let me know so I can show you how to do it safely. Never use ozone without knowing what you are doing. It's very very dangerous

Hi Deville,
Thanks for the info. I never heard that before, but will read up on it for future reference. What I did was contact SNS, took advantage of their offer, and 24hrs after I used their one-two punch (203/209), the difference was mindblowing! I had friends come over for their opinion (they've had "Borgmite" issues in their veg garden), and they didn't even wait to go home, they ordered the free packs right then and there!! They were extremely kind when I called, and took the time to explain to me how to use the solution, and though it is time-consuming, I'm staying on top of it as instructed (I'm assuming this kind of infestation is time-consuming for anyone, regardless of the treatment used).

Today, I'm reintroducing nutes, and I finally got my phone working (After two months, T-mobile finally took responsibility for selling me a refurbished phone that wasn't working, when my order was for a new phone), so I'll be able to post a photo this afternoon. Either way, these guys at SNS are fantastic, and my only regret is that I don't make enough money to afford their awesome products! Hopefully, my friends will like it enough that maybe we split the costs.

If it's okay to ask you a few questions?

1. Up until this recent grow, I have always water sprayed my plants - even the buds,- with no bad effects, and I've been growing off and on since the 80's. I've never had any issues. But this time, I got chastised for doing that, and was advised against it, so I stopped. Now, reading up on "Borgmites"(That's what I'll forever call them), I find out they love the 'dry' and the heat, and I'm thinking my watering habits actually kept them at bay, so can you tell me why it's wrong to water spray?

2. I used a home solution prior to the arrival of the SNS, and was shocked to find many of top level buds were hairless. No hairs at all!! I think the solution burned them off. They look better now that I'm using the SNS, but with this new development, is this a lost cause? Will the hairs come back with proper care, or should I go ahead and call it a day for these two plants?
 
Actually you can kill the entire infestation in a couple of hours with Ozone. But it can also kill you, your pets and your plants. Used moderately however it's in the "super-tool" category for growers :) Here's a good and informational article on the subject:

"Ozone generators are becoming more affordable and are a common feature in larger commercial growrooms. Domestic and industrial use of ozone is not new, but translating the many benefits into a grow operation deserves a little attention. An inexpensive ozone generator is capable of saving crops from molds, battling predators, oxygenating root zones, sterilizing equipment, disinfecting entire growrooms and more.

We’ve all heard about ozone, and how the lack of it in the atmosphere caused by pollutants is a problem, so one might ask, “Isn’t using an ozone generator just going to compound climate change?” The simple answer is no. The ozone we generate in growrooms is the same stuff that protects us in the ozone layer of Earth’s atmosphere, but it won’t harm the planet.

Ozone (O3) is a triatomic molecule consisting of three oxygen atoms (instead of two in regular oxygen). Oxygen is one of the most powerful oxidizing agents in the world, and a potent natural disinfectant 3,000 times more effective than chlorine bleach in broad spectrum antimicrobial activity. Ozone is not just another cleaner, ozone is a true sterilizer. It can completely destroy impressive amounts of spores, bacteria, viruses, mold, fungus, mildew, smoke particles and other contaminants while at the same time oxidizing any dead organic materials in its path. Because ozone has a spare, unstable oxygen molecule, as soon as it touches a pathogen, the spare atom breaks off and attacks the cell walls of the pathogen, rupturing them and killing it instantly, without hesitation or mercy.

Ozone Safety
Ozone is used in low atmospheric doses in hospital wards, offices, veterinarian rooms, commercial kitchens and factories to keep the air sterile, sterilize bedding, prevent the spread of airborne pathogens and keep the place smelling clean. People occasionally use it at home to sterilize dishes, treat various ailments and make their homes a little fresher. Because ozone is so powerful, it can be harmful to humans and pets if precautions are not taken. Ozone can be harmful to the respiratory system if breathed in high concentrations, but the fact that it breaks down quickly allows us to work with it in relative safety. The safety aspects in this article are overly cautious, but it’s worth taking the extra care.

Fortunately, people can start to smell ozone before it becomes hazardous. The familiar smell of it is like that fresh smell after a heavy storm, which is the ozone created by electrical energy in the clouds and brought down in rain.

Choosing an Ozone Generator

Choosing the correct ozone generator is important. Too small an output will be ineffective, too large will be dangerous. For an average-sized grow space, a generator with an output of around 200 to 400 milligrams (mg) per hour will be fine. Huge commercial operations will need upwards of 1 gram of output per hour, and micro-grows can get by with under 100 mg per hour. These are only guidelines. To really make the most of ozone, look for a generator to ozonate water, too. These models have a silicone tube attached with an air stone at the end. Most are wall mountable, but it is more convenient to be able to move them around.

Using an Ozone Generator Safely
You need to be switched-on and alert to safely use ozone. As a general rule in the growroom, you should never be able to smell ozone from your generator while it’s switched on. If you can smell it strongly, you are generating more ozone than you need. Switch off the machine and leave the room for at least 45 minutes while it disperses back into plain oxygen. Next time, don’t run the machine for so long.

Keep all pets away from the ozone generator while it’s running, and for at least 45 minutes after it’s been switched off. Get everything else completely ready before you switch on your generator. It should be the last thing you switch on before quickly leaving the growroom. Always connect it to a timer to switch it off after it’s finished. Some have a built-in timer, but experience says they are not always reliable.

If you need to re-enter the room while the generator is running, hold your breath.

Ozone is safe for humans if it’s not breathed in. It’s a good idea to make sure a friend is around, just in case. Consider buying an ORP (oxidation reduction potential) sensor to monitor safe ozone levels in your growroom. If just using the generator to oxygenate water or oil, consider running it in an outbuilding. Close the door of your growroom to keep the ozone contained. Tell anyone else in the house before you use ozone, so they can also stay clear of the room.

Sterilizing Your Room and Equipment
Sterilizing your room and equipment is one of the biggest hassles of being a grower. Ozone acts as a magic bullet that cuts out such soggy labor. You will still have to manually clean up debris with hot water first, but that’s the hard part done. Let equipment dry, and then stack it up so air can circulate freely around it. Include things like scalpels, pruners, pH meters, screens and fans because ozone sterilizes everything.

Position your generator in the center of the room and switch on some circulating fans. It doesn’t have to be blowing a gale in there, but the air needs to circulate around the entire room. If you have a generator with a tube attached for ozonating water, great! You can set up your nutrient tanks and hydroponic system now, and run the pumps with plain cold water. Attach the end of the generator’s tube to an air stone and put it in your nutrient tank. Now you can sterilize the entire room and your nutrient delivery system in one easy move.

Set up a timer to switch off after 30 to 45 minutes. Plug your generator into it and turn it on. Hold your breath to avoid breathing the ozone in as you quickly check the air stone is bubbling ozone into the water, and then leave the room immediately. The generator will switch off after one hour, and the room will be safe to re-enter an hour after that. If your growroom is in the main part of the house, then it’s probably a good idea to open the windows to allow any leaking ozone to escape. That’s it! Your room will smell incredibly clean and is now completely sterile, ready for your next grow.

Inline Odor Control
The most common use of ozone by growers is inside the ventilation ducting with a carbon filter. This gives an extra insurance against unwanted odors escaping. This works great and is a belt-and-braces addition to odor control. This method is also completely safe because the ozone is immediately extracted through ventilation into the outside, leaving no possibility of ozone buildup inside the growroom. For this set-up you need a medium output inline generator to place inside your ducting. Here the ozone molecules mix with the smelly plant terpenes inside the pipe. In an ideal world, you would have this inline ozone system paired with a portable ozone generator.

Ozonated Water
If you buy a generator with a tube and air stone option, then you can ozonate water. This is a fantastic way to ensure your root zone stays healthy and lets you disinfect a hydroponic system with your plants still installed.

Working with ozonated water is much safer than using it in the air. When ozone is bubbled through water, the unstable molecule behaves as it does in the air; attaching itself to any single-celled pathogen and killing it instantly. The by-product of this is pure residual oxygen in the water. Once all the pathogens are gone, the ozone actually starts to be absorbed into the water too, where its power can be harnessed.

When using a 400 mg ozone generator, place the air stone at the bottom of the water container and ozonate for around two minutes per liter of fluid. If possible, do this in open air as to not breathe ozone. Use the water right away, as the ozone starts to break down into oxygen over 30 minutes. Once you have ozonated water you can really do some amazing things with it, such as:

Spray it directly on your plants to kill any spores, rust spots, fungus, powdery mildew or bud rot. It is safe to use at any time in the flowering period because there are no chemicals.

Immediately dip fresh cuttings in the solution for 30 seconds to sterilize them before dipping in rooting hormone. This improves strike rate dramatically.

Dip pots, syringes, pipettes, meters, drippers, pumps, connectors and anything else that goes near your plants in the solution for one minute to sterilize safely.

Pour it straight into your root zone to give a massive oxygen boost and sterilize the rhizosphere.

When you change your solution, ozonate the fresh nutrient solution thoroughly before running it through the system, disinfecting everything and giving the plants a huge oxygen boost.

Working with ozonated water is more forgiving than ozonated air. You can safely handle it, and people with skin complaints may actually find it helps a lot, as it gently keeps skin sterile. There is no point in using organic nutrients or supplements in freshly ozonated solution, as the ozone will kill any beneficial bacteria too, including trichoderma. If your supplement isn’t compatible with liquid oxygen, it’s not compatible with freshly ozonated water. But, because ozone only remains active in water for around up to 45 minutes before turning back to oxygen, you can still use organics if you wait for an hour or so after running the ozone through your system, and get the best of both worlds.

No More Bud Rot

An ozone generator can save crops from botrytis and other pathogens, even if it’s already started to weave its gray web around plants. It does this quickly without adding any toxic chemicals at all. Here’s how to go about it:

At the first sign of mold, physically remove any infected material from the room.

Switch off your extractor fan but leave your circulation fans running. (You will need to set a timer to switch your extractor back on in about 15 minutes).

When using a 400 mg per hour generator, try running it for 30 to 45 seconds per square meter of enclosed grow space and then switching it off. If you have a machine with a tube outlet, you can attach it directly to a circulation fan for maximum spread.
Leave the extractor fan off for 15 minutes afterwards, but make sure the circulation fans are moving lots of air around inside.
After the extractor fan has been on for 15 minutes, open your tent and look at the mold. Instead of looking a vibrant, fluffy gray, it should now look brown, crusty and dead.

If mold is more progressive, you may need to run the ozone for longer. For serious infestations, run for up to an hour without the extractor on.

Dispose of any previously infected matter. Although the mold is no longer active, it shouldn’t be ingested.
Inspect every plant thoroughly, and if there is any mildew alive, repeat the process. Be aware that building up too high a concentration of ozone in a room can cause plant damage to the stomata, resulting in burnt leaves, especially at the tips and wider shade leaves closest to the generator. There have also been reports of it damaging the delicate trichomes with major overuse. Tread carefully, using it sparingly yet often to prevent contamination, and you will be OK. You might have to toss a few plants if they were infected already, but it will not spread and you have saved your crop from death or early harvest. Check your plants for new mold thoroughly every day for a week, and if you spot any new stuff, repeat the process.

Battle Spider Mites
Spider mites spread fast and are tough to beat. A higher level of ozone will break down the respiratory systems of spider mites and kill them. Be warned that the levels you need to run ozone at to kill spider mites may cause plant damage, but spider mites will cause worse damage.

Conclusion
Ozone is a wonderful tool for the hydroponic gardener. If treated with respect, it can troubleshoot many problems and maximize efficiency in a growroom"
 
We use the SNS products with great results.. DON'T FREAK OUT OVER THE MITES the SNS will probably work for you unless you have some kind of Zombie strain..Once you get them under control just add this to the mix once or twice a week as a preventive .. If you use the spray make sure you do so After the lights are out for the night .
 
We use the SNS products with great results.. DON'T FREAK OUT OVER THE MITES the SNS will probably work for you unless you have some kind of Zombie strain..Once you get them under control just add this to the mix once or twice a week as a preventive .. If you use the spray make sure you do so After the lights are out for the night .

I think it's great! I'm growing SSH and Bubblicious, but the SnS guy also advised that I incorporate the 203/209 into my three week veg, to prevent any potential attack. I felt it necessary to remove my SCROG netting, it being the only way to really get that spray into the leaves underneath, and it also allows me to really remove tiny bud grows that have developed.
A lot of leaves are being removed, and that worries me, but they're the ones with visible attacks. If the SCroG is supposed to direct the light back on the colas and off of the leaves, then I'm hoping it's okay.

I gotta be honest. This is a pain in the arse! I've always loved gardening, and I loved growing marijuana (not just because of the smoke). I used to get up every morning excited to go in and see how the girls were doing. Now I find myself dreading it, even though I see evidence of a turnaround.
Can't wait till this harvest is done, so I can fog, clean and clean and clean...then start fresh.:)
 
I'm working with soil, Deville. Will it provide the same results? Gotta be honest and say that I'm treading lightly on this, because as much as my guy loves the end result, he ain't too hot on the expenses that tend to creep up over time. If this crop goes to hell, I'll have no problem starting over, but it's gonna be a pain explaining and explaining again, if that makes sense.

Oh, btw, I may not be in as of bad shape as I thought, since there are no webs on my plants, anywhere. From what I've learned, what you see initially are the females doing their egg-dropping thing, which are mostly female (thousands upon thousands upon thousands), but the first time one of the ladies has a 'male' then the problems start, fast and furious.
 
Hmmm,

Looking at generators on Amazon, but not sure which way to go. We're talking about a 4x4x80 tent and a 12x24x60 tent in a 8x11(?) carpeted bedroom with other stuff (no other plants are in the house). I see generators as low as 70.00, but not sure these will do the trick.
Still researching...
 
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