Seedling in trouble

[shovhd]

Hi, new to this and need help. Had no problem for first couple of grows, but now I can't grow shit.

CropKing WW auto flower
Using a GH water farm.
Grow tent.
2 x 400w LED grow lights on 24/7
18 - 24 inches above
PH around 5.7
Straight tap water to start left for 24 hours to clear chlorine 16ppm
26-29 degrees C in the tent
Has an exhaust fan and filter.

The hydroton is reused, but I clean them in bleach and peroxide for a couple of days. Then after I rinse a few times they soak in ph adjusted water for a couple of days. Then I run the water farm for a day. Then dump and go.

Help! What's wrong with it? The last couple did this as well.

Thx in advance.

shovhd

 

[Ripe1]

Hey shov, I had this on my first 5 seedlings. For me, it was a combination of light burn, low soil temps, & starting out, temps were in the lower 70’s. I have a blue, white & red led. They recommend 80% blue and white, 30% red for seedlings at 28 - 32”. I had to dial back to 40%b, 20%w & 30%r a 40”. I put the light at one corner of the tent and the seedling at the other as leds are just intense right under them. PARs fall off to a more suitable output for seedlings in the corners. After a week or so start moving them closer slowly. Check out where I am and you’ll see. I hope that helps.

 

[Scientific]

It sounds like you're doing just about everything right. The Al foil glaring back at the camera is throwing the exposure off so it's too dark and hard to see.

What is the seedling in below the hydroton? I big soaking wet glob of rock wool by any chance? That will drown the roots and should be stripped away.

BTW, letting water sit only removes chlorine if your utility is adding chlorine as a gas. If they are adding stabilized chlorine, it won't help. (And in my opinion chlorine doesn't make any damn difference anyway. I never worry about it. In fact I drink the stuff. )

You say "straight tap water." Do you know what's in your tap water? Is it hard or soft? The amount of mineral content in your water can be really important. Do you have a PPM meter? Sometimes the folks at the local hydro shop can help, but about half the time they seem to not know what they're talking about. You can check your water utility's website too. Your water is important!

 

[improvise]

Maybe a period of dark time to rest would help too. regards

 

[shovhd]

Thx everyone for the help. I turned off one of the LEDs for now. The seedling is directly into the hydroton, but I did put smaller clay balls around it. The tap water is 16ppm, so I guess it’s pretty good? I will change to an 18-6 cycle as well. Btw the stalk seems pretty hardy and strong. Just the top leaves....

 

[Scientific]

16 PPM is super soft! (You will probably need to supplement Ca/Mg.)
Autos don't need to "rest." You can give them 24 hours of light from seedling to harvest (and they will GROW).
Sounds like you're in really good shape.
(BTW and FWIW, I don't think you really need to disinfect hydroton...)

 

[shovhd]

Day 7
208 ppm, 5.68 ph

 

[Scientific]

I have to ask, after your disinfection regimen, are you SURE you got the hydroton thoroughly rinsed so there's no residual bleach?

Are the roots moist but not flooded? They need to be able to get some oxygen. If you have top feed continually soaking them, they might be drowning. (Just tossing out ideas here...)

 

[shovhd]

I have to ask, after your disinfection regimen, are you SURE you got the hydroton thoroughly rinsed so there's no residual bleach?

Are the roots moist but not flooded? They need to be able to get some oxygen. If you have top feed continually soaking them, they might be drowning. (Just tossing out ideas here...)

After they soak in the bleach/peroxide they are rinsed, then soak in water for a day, then rinsed, then sit in ph’d water for a couple of days, then rinsed, then I run the water farm for a day, then I dump it, refill wth ph’d water, then start the seedling. anal.

Hydroton by the seedling is damp. Looks like the water farm is running like it should.

I’m thinking too much light? Turned off one 400w and raised the other up. We’ll see.

Thx I really do appreciate the help.

shovhd

 

[Scientific]

I’m thinking too much light?

It does look like it might be a little bit blasted. I hope that's it. Easy fix.

 

[Ripe1]

Hey Scientific, question/theory for ya, perhaps this will help Shovhd too. You didn't get to see but my auto seedlings were kissing the ground after a few days of failing to properly diagnose light burn. Admittedly the light was too strong for the little sweethearts, however, after one night of rest and finally figuring out it was light burn, they all picked up and were happy as a plant in the sun, till my fan fell on them. Then a screw driver MY theory is that some of these autos are still light sensitive, at least more than some of the strains I'm seeing grown by PW or IntheShed. Perhaps some rest would do this particular variety some good. I realize they have a shorter life and more light means more meds in the end. But if they can't make it to the end there is no meds at all. I think we just got some janky seeds shovhd. Scientific is right, they should have more lights, but we don't know for sure what characteristics are in some of the seeds we get, we're not the lab. Well I'm not. I'm the lab rat. Damn it that should have been my Username! Stupid Ripe1 Derr!!!

 

[Scientific]

I think lights falling on plants is the #1 cause of mortality. I've done it. More than once. Oops.

Most plants that are having problems around here aren't getting enough light, so too much to seedlings is unusual.

BTW, as you may know, lots of people grow seedlings under smaller, less intense lights when they are small, which saves money on the utility bill.

As for your idea... I really don't think that "rest" would do any good. I'd suggest just getting the light level right and then give your autos at least 18 hours a day of light. I grew a dwarf indoors with nonstop light for 11 weeks and it did great, so I think autos can take continuous light.

Anyway, the plus side of all this is that once you overdo it, you have found where the upper limit is and you can dial back to from too much to ideal. I'd hate to see you dial back from too much to not enough.

As is always the case, watching the plant carefully and taking notes really helps to hit the sweet spot.

Good luck and have fun!

 

[Rider509]

Hey, Shovelhead, I'd agree with Sci and say he's given you good advice. Not sure about the water farm thing but I'm thinking that it's too wet around the roots. The top of my hydroton is dry except for the couple of times a day that I hand water around the seedlings, never directly on them, while they establish roots. I make them work for a drink and have never lost a seedling. Just my two cents.

 

[Ripe1]

This is just something I heard on a grow boss video, not my opinion, but it is something I am messing with right now...He says that LED intensity doesn't fall off with distance (I assume he is referring to Inverse Square Law) the same way the rest of lights do. Right under the light will appear the same a block away as it will a foot away. Once you step out of the direct footprint of the light, you really start loosing PARS. Now that guy is an Ar$#hole to his customers and plants, so I also take everything he says with a grain of salt. Perhaps things that we don't see in the light, things that are useful to the plant do fall off with distance? Either way, my light has dials on it that you can set the intensity and I used those coupled with distance and angle to correct the light burn. You were 100% right in the beginning when you said 700W of LED are going to bring problems. I am ordering CFL's today. Shovhd, if you can't get your LED to a low enough intensity, I'd suggest the same, at least to do seedlings under. Or a Mars light like Pennywise has. That dude seems to do no wrong. Also, can you start a grow journal shov? It'll help us help you. Add the link to you signature under settings and we'll be able to see it every time you post and can help/admire you. Scientific, it's almost Christmas, new grow time right???

 

[Scientific]

> He says that LED intensity doesn't fall off with distance (I assume he is referring to Inverse Square Law) the same way the rest of lights do.

That guy's on-screen persona is so hard to take that I don't usually watch his videos even though I think he has useful information.

The inverse square law is just that, a physical law, so it always applies. Clearly the notion that the light a block away is the same as a foot away is nonsense.

The LEDs in grow lights do have lenses, though, which does focus the light into an intense beam, so one needs must be careful, especially in the center of the footprint where the light is most intense.

> I am ordering CFL's today.
FWIW, 420 guy JimmyJames905, who seems wise in the ways of lighting, says:

I PAR tested the cfl vs led phillips. The phillips 5000k 100w equivalent scored 1250 μmoles at 8"...
the cfl scored 350 μmols.​

That is, he advocates for using LED light bulbs as a better, more up-to-date lighting technology than CFLs, and I am inclined to agree with him.

> can you start a grow journal shov?

• Find grow journals here: Journals in progress
• How to Make a Grow Journal

> Scientific, it's almost Christmas, new grow time right???
Me, I am resisting the temptation to do another grow since I have lots of other things I should be doing (don't we all?), but I keep getting ideas for experiments with lighting and an automated coco coir watering system...

 

[Ripe1]

"JimmyJames905, who seems wise in the ways of lighting, says:
I PAR tested the cfl vs led phillips. The phillips 5000k 100w equivalent scored 1250 μmoles at 8"...
the cfl scored 350 μmols."
Was this on the CKS Purple Kush grow? I started reading that one.

"The LEDs in grow lights do have lenses, though, which does focus the light into an intense beam, so one needs must be careful, especially in the center of the footprint where the light is most intense."
And there is the part that was giving me trouble! The lens! So while I was over at Jimmy's I saw the Galactica app, cool stuff, I measured my light at full blast and not. Blue, White and Red set to the lowest was 4K Lux. Full Blast on all 3 was 24 to 25K. Now we are out of my expertise, what say ye to those numbers?

 

[shovhd]

Hi and thanks for the advise. I did start a grow journal here:

Shovhd's GH Waterfarm CropKing WW Auto Grow Journal - 2017

I will try to keep it current.

shovhd