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Thread: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

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    Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Have a look at the pictures of the plants below and tell me what you think my problem is:





    These plants are just over 3 weeks out of the seed and this problem showed up about 3 days ago. I have had some problems with wild pH fluctuations for about 2 days (electronic meter reported pH 3.4 to 8.5) but it has been stable within an acceptable range (5.8 to 6.4) for 4 days since then but the problem continues to get worse. I'm growing in a homemade aeroponics system (Rubbermaid tub) using Humboldt Nutrients Oneness approx. 600ppm. They have been under a 400w HPS light for 24 hours a day (changed photoperiod to 18/6 today). Strange thing is, the not all of my plants have this problem - only 4 plants out of 10. The strain shown is Great White Shark. Thanks for your help.
    Last edited by 420 Girl; 05-16-2009 at 04:56 PM. Reason: Fixed Photos

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Deepblue,

    Your problem looks like it might be a Calcium deficiency. I am having very similar problems although more severe, we may in fact have the same type of problem. Whatever it is, it's killing my plants very quickly. I've tried everything from water flushing to nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus boosts, and nothing has worked. Today I went out and got some Epsom Salts (high in Magnesium) and Vitamin B-1 (high in Boron, Iron, Manganese and Zinc) to see if that does anything. This is driving me nuts, I can't figure out what the problem is.

    If my latest attemps resolve the problem, I will let you know. Here is a picture of one of my plants, they look similar although not exact.



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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Deepblue,

    Sorry, I forgot to include this link. Scroll down to the Calcium deficiency picture, it looks identical to your Picture #1

    http://www.420magazine.com/forums/pr...pictorial.html

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Please upload the pics through our gallery first then link them to the post. See instructions in my signature.

    Hard to tell seems like I'm looking through someones blinds.. I suspect due to the pH fluctuations you had that the plant was severely locked out of certain nutes. 600 ppm may be a tab on the high side for 3 week old plants too. I would insure your pH is in check and keep your nutes at 450 for now then slowly move up.

    Also what kind of water are you using? RO? Tap? If RO make sure you are also running a cal-mag supplement. The damage I see looks almost like what severe magnesium def would look like. With known pH issues we could be chasing our tils though. Just make sure its in check 5.6 would be good. And slowly bring nutes up and make sure new growth is ok, as those leaves wont recover.

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Good call McBudz, I didn't even notice that feature (had to use a proxy to upload to ImageShack to protect my IP). Sorry about the picture quality. The camera on my LG Voyager doesn't do too well under the HPS light for some reason, but you can still see the spots and scaling well enough.

    I was guessing my problems were the result of nutrient lock-out from incorrect pH. I'm just using tap water but it is very soft (~75ppm. on my TDS meter straight out of the hose). So what I'll do for now is carefully monitor my pH and try to keep it as close to 5.6 as I can and add some fresh water to the reservior to bring my TDS reading down to 450ppm or so. I'll post a few more pictures in a couple days. Thanks for your help!

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Hey Guys,

    I am having the exact same problem...I have clones about 3 weeks old, in a hydro system, and they are getting the same affliction.

    I am using GenHydro veg solution at 1100ppm...so I guess i will take that down to 450 like mcBuz says...

    ps. am flushing now in 6.0 tap water, ppm off tap about 180...

    Cheers

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Just to give everyone an update on my issue it does look like a stable pH has mostly taken care of it (no surprise there). The plants have exploded in new growth, but some new leaves are showing minor signs of over-fertilization so my next step will most likely be to flush the reservoir. Thanks for your input everyone.

    (I apologize again for the image quality...)



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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Nice to see the plants recovering well. Are you calibrating your pH meter often? I try to calibrate every 3-4 uses and still don't trust it completely. It looking very nice!

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    hi grofox. I think McBudz is right on with his advice. That is a really high ppm for veg in my set up which is similar to yours. I can get away with that level in my bud room, but my ladies like 450-550 in veg. I've also noticed slower growth when my nutrient solution gets above 70 degrees. I don't think that is the issue, but it could be contributing to the leaf thing. Good luck.

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Hey Drum,

    Thanks for replying, especially from someone with the same setup. My mentor argues with me...I brought the nutes down to 450, and the burn stopped, then he insisted to drive it back up to 800, and I continue to get yellow leaves...its a real problem, and the ph is always betw/ 5.8 and 6.2.

    I also have a recirc pump in my reservoirs, and in the bud room, they are next to my AC handlers, so i take 100 foot of funny pipe, and lay it on some metal screen inside the handler, and then back to the res, so as to have the ac cooling the res at the same time. I think this has acted like a poor mans chiller, and brought me down a few degrees. I start the day at 72f, and end the day around 78f, mostly because I cant seem to get the veg plants to leaf up...hence the lites are baking all my funny pipe drain lines and feeder lines.

    We cut clones from the (nute burned?) young clones, and they are turning yellow too, inside a little plastic nursery...I am getting blamed for everything, and I think you are right on about the nutes...

    I will let you know...

    Thanks Drum and all others

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Check this out...I am becoming desperate...

    5 hours after putting clones in a 6" rockwool, the leaves start yellowing...They were prepared by a guy is very good at this, and does the same thing for other people. he says no problems except me.

    6.0 ph, used clones originally into 1" cubes, soaked the 6" cubes in 1000ppm water before inserting the 1" cube. The clones were all dark green beauties. We continue to have this problem. We used 1000ppm bec/ that is what the label on the GenHydro says for solution, then let them sit on a table under t5 lites. (flourescants)

    This has been going on for several months, and causing heightened frustration and hurt feelings. At this point I just want to get out completely.

    He (my mentor) insists it is either old/bad food, is this possible? We bought the big 5 gallon containers, they are probably a year old.

    He then insists it is airborne disease na d this location must be bad bec/ this problem is not experienced anywhere else. We went thru a series of chemicals for bugs and root rot, and everything seems to be ok. We have some bud plants that started out bad, but they are growing and mostly green, good roots. Also, the last crop also had good pearly roots, but he admitted giving me boys that were too long on the other table, they werent thru yet, and were struggling. We threw them away, but I doubt airborne disease.

    He then insists it is bad water. We are using city water, and others not in same county, but regional have no problem.

    As has been suggested here, I suggested 1000 ppm is way too high. he argues incessantly that it is not that. he says the other county dude runs GH veg at 1100, and his bud room at 2000ppm.

    Currently I am taking the 6" cubes with the 1" cubes inside with the babies, soaking them in 6.0 water for an hour to get them healthy again. The ppm in the bath is already 480ppm.

    He wont listen, he says I wont listen. He says since they grow great in the other place, then it is bad food, air, or water. i have suggested that maybe it is just diff/ and we have to adjust for the diffs. I dont have pics, sorry, but they yellow from the edge of the leaves then towards the middle. These guys were dark green yesterday around 2:00pm, and last nite around 9:00pm I saw the beginnings of yellowing.

    I believe they are yellowing because the 1" cubes are soaking up the 1000ppm and causing burn. He says its not the ppm, but bad food or bad water.

    Admittedly, I am a novice, and he has been doing this for many years. We still have dark green 1" cubes in a plastic incubator. I am sure they will turn yellow too if continue this way.

    The latest is he wants me to get the water tested, that maybe the EC (electrical current) is off or something is wrong with the water.

    Please help...please comment on some of these things like bad water, old food, 1000ppm on the table, 2000ppm in budding water, etc.

    Please help me...

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Ok,

    Got some food from other working place, and getting some RO water and distilled water, and we are going to try like a 5-way test on the remaining 1" cubes...

    Will let you know...

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Well, we did a test...on a table with 6" rockwool, gave them GenHydr food per label for veg (these are clones, not seeds), and used distilled water for new food and old food. Clones from another place do great on 1100ppm,
    but mine were turning yellow and dying.

    Everything turned yellow, so soaked them down to about 490ppm-ish, and everyone is doing great. so not the food, 99% probably the same city water, but such drastic diffs/...

    We cant figure out why, but I lost a lot of time, and in the end I save food, too

    Cheers

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Hi Grofox. I am happy to say that I haven't had that problem for 30 days now into 12/12. I still have healthy huge fan leaves for the 1st time with no scaly brown crispy leaves so far! I'm pretty sure I can attribute my good health to lowering my ppm to no more than 1100 in the bloom room reservoirs. I have the same 2 strains going and they both like that number. My only other change was to add epsom salts to my res. Someone told me that the 3 pt G.H. nutes lack Mg.?? I was a little worried my ppm would skyrocket, but it hasn't made a difference so far. My friend who has a dutch pot like system has noticed improvement in his girls by lowering his tds number considerably also. He was running 1500-1700 in his res. and I nearly had to threaten him to even give it a try. He's not convinced that was the fix, but it makes a lot more sense to start lower and slowly raise the number till you see sighns of stress, than to leave the ppm high and try to look elsewhere for your answers.
    I'll keep you posted
    One more of us is one less of them!

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    Re: Sudden Appearance of Brown Spots and Scaling - What's Wrong?

    Hey Drum,

    I really appreciate your reply...thank you...I have 2 strains, also, and am now left with baby clones on a table at 550ppm, and for the last week or so, they are doing great, growing well, green, etc.

    2 Questions about the epsom salts:
    1) I have a box of epsom salts from the grocery store. If I have 50gals of 550ppm water, how much are you adding?
    I assume they just dissolve in the water pretty quickly, so no clogging of hydroponic lines, etc.

    2) Doesnt this add "salts" to the water? I thought salts in the water were bad, that they clog up the plants respiratory system, and this is why we flush the system, to get the salts out?

    Cheers

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