Are a package of seedbank seeds likely to have the same phenotype?

[snack420]

Hi 420Mag readers!

I've been researching some strains and thinking about ordering some new seeds, but was wondering whether seedbanks usually distribute seeds of a strain with all the same phenotype when ordering say a pack of 5 seeds?

If anyone knows this from experience, it would be great to learn this in advance of ordering.

Also, if there are a few phenotypes for a given strain, is it possible to find out from the seedbank which phenotype(s) they are selling? I don't usually see that info on their websites.

in advance for any info on this!

 

[iwltfum]

Most strains that are created by a specific breeder, will have several pheno types. Some strains have more pheno types than others. It really depends on how long the breeder took to backcross the strain that determines how stable it will be. Most seedbanks don't tell you the number of phenotypes are possible for each strain, and neither do most breeder websites for that matter. But, in most cases the breeder themselves will have a good idea of how many phenotypes each of their strains is likely to produce. A quick email to the breeder answers this question most of the time (be warned that most breeders take sometimes weeks or months to respond to emails). Some strains on eu seeds have the number of phenotypes (and their descriptions) posted on the strain page.

 

[Weaselcracker]

I'm pretty sure it's not possible to have only one phenotype with seeds? I actually don't have a clue. But as Iwitfum said - a big part of a breeder's job is to try and inbreed the strain enough that the phenotypes don't vary too drastically. If they do a good job then phenotypes can be looked upon as a good thing. Kind of like opening a present you never know quite what you'll get but hopefully it's something good.

 

[AKgramma]

Weaselcracker is correct. Unless the strain is highly in-bred, you're going to get a number of phenotypes from the seed.

In my experience, I ended up with a number of phenotypes from a packet of OG Kush purchased from the local cannibus club. The clones followed their mother phenotypes exactly. I had a range from tall and skinny with widely-spaced nodes (the males and 3 of the females) to very short and bushy ladies with lots of small leaves and closely-spaced nodes. And this was after topping them twice.

My second grow with the clones is going to be a very different experience from my 1st grow, (which I'm waiting on amber trics to harvest). As small as the clones are, they think they are the same age age as their mothers and are already trying to flower under 16/8, and only about 7" tall! The mothers are close to 30" now with very full colas.

But I believe, from reading all I can find on clones, that they will follow the growth patterns (phenotype) of their respective mothers, and it will be possible to force them to veg longer before letting them flower. Mother Nature may have other ideas, however! ;-)

A future option for you might be to take clones from those you like from this grow and perpetuate them through cloning for a perpetual grow, and more consistent phenotypes.

 

[Cannu bis]

Weaselcracker is correct. Unless the strain is highly in-bred, you're going to get a number of phenotypes from the seed.

In my experience, I ended up with a number of phenotypes from a packet of OG Kush purchased from the local cannibus club. The clones followed their mother phenotypes exactly. I had a range from tall and skinny with widely-spaced nodes (the males and 3 of the females) to very short and bushy ladies with lots of small leaves and closely-spaced nodes. And this was after topping them twice.

My second grow with the clones is going to be a very different experience from my 1st grow, (which I'm waiting on amber trics to harvest). As small as the clones are, they think they are the same age age as their mothers and are already trying to flower under 16/8, and only about 7" tall! The mothers are close to 30" now with very full colas.

But I believe, from reading all I can find on clones, that they will follow the growth patterns (phenotype) of their respective mothers, and it will be possible to force them to veg longer before letting them flower. Mother Nature may have other ideas, however! ;-)

A future option for you might be to take clones from those you like from this grow and perpetuate them through cloning for a perpetual grow, and more consistent phenotypes.

I don't understand why you're talking about clones in this context.

My understanding is that a clone will always (must) have the ssme phenotype as its mother - if we restrict phenotype to mean the genetic make-up (as opposed to culture-dependent differences).
(It's only with seeds that phenotype varies, since it does so because of random selection of genes during sexual reproduction.)

 

[Jackalope]

More info on pheno types. If the seeds you are buying are female seeds then the phenol type situation can change. If a plant is selfed it will be around 50% that pheno type the other 50% will show other pheno's. If they use 2 different females when the make seeds you will get females with phenol types like you would with a F-1. Back when I grew only 1 or 2 strains I loved the phenol types because it gave me different plants.

Research, research, research. Very few strains are stabilized any more. That is a FACT. The key is that they used to and some of those strain are used in crosses today. If you want a clone only type cross. Find one with solid genetics crossed into them. Solid genetic make up in one strain can help stabilize another. For a example one strain in my new line up is a Lavender x Da Purps. While Soma has some great strains. Soma seeds is also are known for hermies in some strains. Soma believes it is a natural part of the plant and will not breed it out. T.H. Seeds where the Da Purps came from is known for strong genetics and stability. Not sure what this cross will be like but it sure sounds good. As long as there are no hermies it will be a success.

 

[Cannu bis]

Wow! What I'm hearing is that you can't be sure what you're buying from a seedbank. I may never find that great Northern Light that I got the first time. Sad. I mean, it could be the case that none of the seeds in a pkg is what the advertisement says they're supposed to be. Now I don't know how much varying phenotype can change the bottomline effects, but I'm just about discouraged from buying seeds at all - and I don't have any hope that there's a clone hiding somewhere on the planet.

Are there ratings for seedbanks' genetics stability?
(I did see your list, but I'd love to see a longer one.)
I've only dealt with Nirvana.

And then there's having testing labs determine the extent to which a given ... plant(!) ... matches the ... standard(!) ... for its alleged strain.. That's going to be awhile, I guess - even though they can now test the cannabinoid / terpinoid profile (but maybe that's enough).

("!" notes places whhere the question is begged: Any given pllant isn't representative of the pkg nowadays, and I don't think there's a standard for the strains.)

 

[Jackalope]

Still to early to panic LOL. I'm pretty sure what you want is Atomic Northern Lights By Dr. Atomic. As far as I know it is the closest to the original. Sensi seeds is the one that brought it to Amsterdam so theirs could be worth looking at. Pretty sure back then it was a clone only strain so what they ended up crossing it with might have changed it some. Research is a great think but these days these is just so much info out there. Only some of which is true. I've been reading and researching strains for over 30 years. Surprising how much of that old info is valuable today.

Just a thought: What if the Northern Lights you remember was a odd pheno. Or Just called Northern Lights but it was something different. LMAO sorry had to through that out.

 

[Cannu bis]

Still to early to panic LOL.

good to hear that!

I'm pretty sure what you want is Atomic Northern Lights By Dr. Atomic.

I'll check that out; tnx.

As far as I know it is the closest to the original.

Sensi seeds is the one that brought it to Amsterdam so theirs could be worth looking at.

I'll check that out, too; tnx.

Pretty sure back then it was a clone only strain so what they ended up crossing it with might have changed it some.

would certainly have, no?

Research is a great think but these days these is just so much info out there. Only some of which is true. I've been reading and researching strains for over 30 years.

good stuff!

Surprising how much of that old info is valuable today.

Just a thought: What if the Northern Lights you remember was a odd pheno. Or Just called Northern Lights but it was something different. LMAO sorry had to through that out.

no; that's a good thought. sad, but good. I guess I'll never find it again, anyway.


Now I'm going to go looking for a thread on Septoria. My nice big outdoor NL fem has got it bad en that I can only hope that it'll get a good bit of flowering done before it gets eaten. :-(

 

[Jackalope]

Sorry to hear you have problems. Septoria? never heard of it. Plants getting eating is a bad bad thing though. Good luck

 

[Cannu bis]

Sorry to hear you have problems. Septoria? never heard of it. Plants getting eating is a bad bad thing though. Good luck

Thanks.

first it was spider mites (last year)


Septoria: I think most oeople just call it mold.

Stop Leaf Septoria On Marijuana Plants Now!

 

[Jackalope]

Ah the technical name. Yeah I had mold problems this year. Got a late start and the last 3 plants go longer. Heat became a issue a couldn't solve. Lost all 3 plants. What didn't have mold was too immature to really enjoy.

 

[Cannu bis]

Ah the technical name. Yeah I had mold problems this year. Got a late start and the last 3 plants go longer. Heat became a issue a couldn't solve. Lost all 3 plants. What didn't have mold was too immature to really enjoy.

I fogot to mention: Potassium (NOT Sodium) Bicarbonate (eg: GreenCure) works quite well against this. It doesn't get rid of it entirely, but it does set it back every time you hit it. You have to do it farly frequently - maybe once a week or so, but it may save your crop. OTOH, it's a lot of work finding all the spots tha are infected. I've had two spots that were so badly infected - right through the stem once - that I decided to just chop the stems off inwards of the damage.

BTW, the first signs of this are innocuous-looking spots on the leaves (thus the common name, Yellow Spot). Next comes spots that are raised on the tops of leaves - and next, holes in the leaves.

The spores overwinter in leaf litter, & will come right back to greet you next season. Also, they infect tomatoes, peppers, ..., so that's an extra mode of attach that it can mount.

This year, mine came from some potting soil. Started at the bottom of one plant (as is its habit).

 

[Jackalope]

Always a constant battle protecting plants. Recently some one brought me a clone from Oregon. Like a idiot I didn't quarantine it or treat it with anything. Ended up with powder mildew for that mistake. I had to tear everything down and clean everything with bleach. I got a garden sprayer to do walls and floors. .

 

[Cannu bis]

Ah the technical name.

Just to say, I didn't use "Septoria" to show off; I did because that's what it was called when I ID'd it - and in lotsa other articles.

but now I find that I got hit by Bud Rot / Gray Mold / Botrytis. Lost a good 2/3 of the plant (so far; harvesting & drying now)

 

[Cannu bis]

I guess I swerved this thread off topic.

Should "we" make that later part of this thread another thread?