Sure to Grow - STG Cubes?

Anyone use the new STG or Sure to grow cubes? Supposedly a superior alternative to coco and rockwool. Not sure what they are made of but they look white like cotton. Just curious if any rockwool users have switched over or compared the 2.

What STG says about itself:

STG Advantages for Growers:

Compatible with major growing systems
Light, clean and hygienic
Requires no presoaking, no pre-conditioning
Does not interfere with nutrient solution EC and pH
No mess, no clean-up, no measuring
Indefinite shelf life
Lower product cost, lower freight cost


STG Advantages for Plants:
Quicker germination and higher yields
Optimal aeration and water retention
Inert, sterile and pH neutral
No nutrient salt build-up
Less incidence of disease, molds and fungus
 
I just looked at the video on STG's website. Unless Im mistaken they want 46.95 for a 8x8 "insert" and It doesnt appear to be re-useable. Hmmm I have 20 pots x 46.95= $939.00. Is it possible that it really costs that much?
 
Andy has it right here. Kind of too expensive for my application. Would consider for starter cubes for seeds but not to replace my hydroton. when I go from clones I clone in my ezclone and dont need STG, RW or anything like that. Just free roots to clay balls.
 
$46.95 is the 6-pack MRSP.

So about 200 bucks to fill up 20 buckets with 4 extra inserts leftover. Or about 100 bucks to fill up your Flowering room, if you ran only 12 buckets.
I wanted some samples, and was able to establish a good relationship with the fella there that handles product distribution, Cary, so I'm sure you could get a better deal Pit.

You can plant into them, like you did for this run, from a starter cube or even from clone insert.

They are recyclable, but not reusable.

Although I have never purchased Hydroton, I'm sure STG Ebb & Gro inserts would be more expensive comparatively. But you get to use something that can be re-processed and turned into a water bottle or back into pillow stuffing;)

Are you considering using them?

thanx for researching the price Andy. The fact that they cant be reused is 1 issue. Hydroton can be reused..but only a few times at best.
another issue is that the hydroton has some weight to it. I think my plants would topple once they get some weight on them. Thats not a terrible problem as I have to tie them up anyway but I think I would be tieing up alot more and alot earler. Mebe Im wrong.
Im sure some growers could use the STG inserts but Its not for my application.
Theres some misleading info on the video that STG puts up...who washes hydroton in a plastic bag..twice. Anybody that uses hydroton in any significant quantity would use a 5 gallon bucket with holes in the bottom. takes about 60 seconds to thoroughly rinse 5 gallons of media. Yes its not quite as quick as the STG but its damn close.
 
I've used the deluge insert with mixed results. I always used steaks to support my plants in hydroton. With the inserts, they get firmer when confined to the bucket. A steak lodged between the edge of the insert and the bucket works, and I have no issues with plants falling. Some of the inserts compressed a lot once water got logged in them, limiting oxygen to the root zone which seems to have affected some of my plants, it is for this reason that i called STG directly. Zach was very responsive, and told me that they have a new product called 'hail' These are 1" squares to be used like you would hydroton. The nice thing about them is that you can add more to create more density in the space occupied, or take some out to make it softer. I just ordered 7 bags (each bag fills 6 pots) I will be testing them before I commit, but if they're everything zach says they are I should like them. I use the 4' X 4' STG blocks to grow in, and find that my rooted clones seem to grow twice as fast as they did in rockwool. Once I noticed this I ordered a case. Although they require more frequent watering they are a definite improvement over rockwool.

I grow 80 plants under 10,000 watts in ebb and gro buckets. Hydroton would take a couple days to rinse and soak before. Big selling point for me is the disposability of the STG. 2 days more free time to focus on other areas, but for a 12 bucket system, say, hydroton isn't too big of a pain to clean, and you know it works. My first wave of test plants will be going in Feb 1st, I'll do half in Hydroton and half in STG, and if there's any interest I'll take pics and post my findings.

In summary I love the 1.5" seedling/clone starters and 4" cubes. Didn't like the 8" inserts so much. Hail sounds promising, but yet to be seen.
 
Zach was very responsive, and told me that they have a new product called 'hail' These are 1" squares to be used like you would hydroton. The nice thing about them is that you can add more to create more density in the space occupied, or take some out to make it softer. I just ordered 7 bags (each bag fills 6 pots) I will be testing them before I commit, but if they're everything zach says they are I should like them.

....I'll take pics and post my findings.

Love to see the comparison. Pictures Please.

I'm using the 8x8 cylinders currently; and except for some algae growth on top, which Sure To Grow, informed me how to eliminate and prevent from happening, I'm a really happy camper!

I know a lot of people have put down the STG medium, but I really don't think they have experience with it, and are getting misinformation from hydro stores.

Thanks for the update on this thread!

S.F
 
What do you do to eliminate and prevent the algae growth from happening?

Hey Andy.

I'm going to post a picture here for reference. It was taken yesterday.

MJ_342_1.jpg


As you can see, algae is really starting to take hold on the tops of the medium. I was concerned so I sent an email to STG, and last night, during Superbowl, I got a response, which totally surprised me.

To eliminate the current problem of the algae growth, Matt from STG suggested using 1-2ml/gallon of 35% H2O2 FOOD GRADE. Not easy to find and acquire, but I've got some coming from Celeste' Certified Pure 35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide : Contents

For expediency sake, I'm posting the email response that I received today from STG. (yes two different people responded)

Thanks for the email.

Couple of quick tips.

Algae is growing because the top of the insert is getting wet. Since STG is non wicking it means that the system is flooding to high, here is how you avoid this.

1- Place a PVC pipe donut 1"-3" tall under the inner bucket. That will lift the bucket up a bit so it will not fill so high. Unfortunately the EBB-12 does not allow you to adjust flood height

2- Another good trick; while at the hardware store picking up the pvc pipe, pick up some S hooks. Hook one end to the side of the bucket and then hook the insert with the other. Two per bucket should work fine and it will not damage the insert. This will prevent the insert from dropping down. It also stretches it and lets it drain easier, the way it is designed to work.

We recently launched a new product called Hail mini cubes. This new STG aggregate will prevent these types of things from happening with the EBB-12 system. We are recommending Hail to all growers who experience algae with our Deluge insert. Same great STG technology, different design.

Let us know if you have any more questions.

I'll post another picture in about a week, hopefully the algae growth will be gone. Either that or I'm sure the plants will be. :bitingnails:

S.F
 
Hey Andy.

I'm going to post a picture here for reference. It was taken yesterday.

MJ_342_1.jpg


As you can see, algae is really starting to take hold on the tops of the medium. I was concerned so I sent an email to STG, and last night, during Superbowl, I got a response, which totally surprised me.

To eliminate the current problem of the algae growth, Matt from STG suggested using 1-2ml/gallon of 35% H2O2 FOOD GRADE. Not easy to find and acquire, but I've got some coming from Celeste' Certified Pure 35% Food Grade Hydrogen Peroxide : Contents

For expediency sake, I'm posting the email response that I received today from STG. (yes two different people responded)



I'll post another picture in about a week, hopefully the algae growth will be gone. Either that or I'm sure the plants will be. :bitingnails:

S.F

wow they sit shallow. Maybe try to put 4 inches or so of hydroton or grow rocks in the bottom to give you more rot zone space?
 
wow they sit shallow. Maybe try to put 4 inches or so of hydroton or grow rocks in the bottom to give you more rot zone space?

yeah McBudz. I'm going to try the H2O2 first before I try and raise the medium. I think I'm going to try the suggestion with the S-hooks

"2- Another good trick; while at the hardware store picking up the pvc pipe, pick up some S hooks. Hook one end to the side of the bucket and then hook the insert with the other. Two per bucket should work fine and it will not damage the insert. This will prevent the insert from dropping down. It also stretches it and lets it drain easier, the way it is designed to work."

I figured if I don't flush with the Hydrogen and raise them (now) then they'll never really get the dose of Hydrogen Peroxide and the algae will continue?

I'll definitely update this thread for anyone in the future that may incur similar issues.

As always, best to you!

S.F
 
Hey Stinkfinger, I had the same problem with these STG 1.5 inserts. I did a little research and foung if you use a very little copper sulphate, that will take care of your problem as well as feed your plants a little copper nutrients. I'm talking 20-30 PPM of the copper sulphate, not a whole lot. The 35% hydrogen peroxide will kill all of your benificial bacteria that are good for your root zone. Don't take my word for it. Look it up on the web. They also use copper sulphate in wine making and for algae control for pools. It worked for me in my aeroponic set-up.
 
Hey Stinkfinger, I had the same problem with these STG 1.5 inserts. I did a little research and foung if you use a very little copper sulphate, that will take care of your problem as well as feed your plants a little copper nutrients. I'm talking 20-30 PPM of the copper sulphate, not a whole lot. The 35% hydrogen peroxide will kill all of your benificial bacteria that are good for your root zone. Don't take my word for it. Look it up on the web. They also use copper sulphate in wine making and for algae control for pools. It worked for me in my aeroponic set-up.

Thanks Builder.

I guess I'll do a little research. I didn't want this thread to get off topic of the STG medium. I don't know how concerned about using the H2O2, I am. It seems flushing for a couple of days as suggested by STG might just be a "test" case here. I wouldn't really know where to find copper sulfate, and I'm not really great with chemistry (I read you can make your own).

I'm just really anxious to cure this algae and get those inserts up higher with the S-hooks.

Thanks for watching out for me!

S.F
 
considering how much you paid for those blocks, algaecide is cheap and direct application is easy and effective within minutes.

Thanks 420

I can't tell you the amount of "bad" bags of bud that I've bought for $50-$100 over the years. $90 for 12 inserts to test a growing medium just didn't seem out of line to me.

I'm interested in the algecide you mentioned, but here's my real concern. From all that I've read, anything foreign that you introduce into the Hydro solution could not only be "harmful" to the plants, but also to humans. Even the non food-grade H2O2 is loaded with fillers and other chemicals.

Most of the algecide says it's safe for ponds, swimming pools, most plants and most fish, but they do exclude some.

Perhaps I'm being hyper-cautious?

I do appreciate your educating me to another possible solution! +reps

S.F
 
why dont you just spray with peroxide and cover them up so no light hits them? I am concerned wih the depth though...I wouldnt use hydroton to fill it up..kinda defeats the purpose of having them. I would double stack the inserts (pricy) and the height will be perfect. then cover them . problem solved.
I considered using these but I forsaw these issues already. I think they are great but it would cost me alot to double stack 20 pots.
 
Stinkfinger, You can buy copper sulphate on ebay. The cost is $8.00 per pound including shipping and that one pound will last, the average indoor gardener, about 50 years or so. In large scale agriculture operations they use 3lbs per acre. Its cheap and it works great. As far as the STG cubes, the only problem I have with them is the algae growing on top. However, this is cured with neoprene inserts for hydroponic net pots and hydroton or perlite on top for soil pots, preferably hydroton because of the weight when watering.
 
Thats a good point - do what we do (with rockwool/netpot) and use some black trash bags or any thick black plastic will do and just make covers so light does not reach the tops of the cubes. I see algaecide in grow shops but I didn't think about the fact that it is most likely for ornamentals.
 
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