When to defoliate?

S

singrow

420 Member
Hello guys,

Its my first grow and I would like to know your guys opinion about the defoliation. Please take a look at my conditions.

The one on the left is on 38th Day and the one one the right is on 52nd Day.

So After 1 week I am planning to change the light cycle to 12/12 and will start to give Big Bud nutrient from Advanced Nutrients. And I will also try to do SCROG method.

Could anyone please tell me should I defoliate some leaves or not? If yes, when should I do it? How should I do it in this particular case?

# of Plants - 2
Grow Type - Soil
Grow Stage - Vegetative
Bucket Size - 5 Gallon
Lights - (2) 400 Watt LED
Nutrients - Advanced Nutriens Cal Mag and Canna Ph Down Grow
Medium - Plagron Bat Mix (Bat guano)
PH - ±6.5
RH - ??
Room Temperature - 21C - 25C
Humidity - 50-60%
Solution Temperature - 24C
Room Square Footage - 90cm x 90cm
Pests - None Known
 
I want to know how your gonna scrog with those plants

If you want scrog lean them over in very beginning. That's scrog.

What do you want an even canopy or what's the goal?


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cnile said:
I want to know how your gonna scrog with those plants

If you want scrog lean them over in very beginning. That's scrog.

What do you want an even canopy or what's the goal?
Click to expand...

Though I do agree you failed with the plant on the right if it was your intention to scrog it but seriously, give the guy a break...everyone's got a dif learning curve

There are some really great video out there on scrog techniques, LST/training, lolly-popping, pony-tailing, topping, etc to get the most out of your scrog. I watched a a lot of video though to sort out the garbage, but anything you can find on scrog techniques from The Grow Boss or MedGrower1 is very informative

Your ladies look great regardless keep up the good work, this is first time to ;-)~

EDIT....those plants don't look like they need any defoliation, maybe some lolly-popping (removing the lowest and most immature growth, but leave the fan leaves for the most part as they will be a good indicator of health as your ladies mature.

I recommend leaving many of those fan leaves also because they will the last food/nutrient source your plants use up in the last week of flower when you start your final flush before harvest
 
Hi, as its my first ttime I didn't know that I should lean them to make scrog. I've just been informed about these techniques.

Ok So if its gone for the right one how can I do scrog on the left one?

Also as you can look deeper I've connected some brances to the buttom of the container with wires for them to get more light. After some time I can remove them ofcourse.

And what about the cage. The gray pipes. I though I could tie some branches on them. Would it be necessary? Should I remove it.
 
Ok so it sounds like you just want to do whatever you can to better your crop. Ok

I would forget the work scrog for now and when your searching for info look for making an even canopy. What that means is you see your light.

Well at a certain height it has a relatively even spread of light. It's probably around 20 inches from surface. Depends on reflector bulb and reflective shit around it. Don't go moving your light just yet you need to find the spot. You can use ur current light height if your doing ok with it and it's not burning and. It's not too high. So go measure your light height and write it down.
Pretend that number is 20 inches.

Ok now you want all your canopy. All the tips of the plants all right around the same level so when ur lights above one of them at 20 inches it's above all of them at 20 inches.

So I would get on your tall one now.

What your going to need to do is find which one will bend the least - that's where yoU want the top of your canopy.

Ok so tallest one bent over. Now bend everything above it to that level - careful. She has little parts on her that you can hurt easy.

So the main point of this is displacing auxins.

The top shoot. The highest part of your plant has auxins in it that it sends down to lower shoots to inhibit growth. So if you move that top tip down then the next tops will grow up. It will be continual for a couple weeks. Even a week could be good. Shit even a couple days of it does a lot of they are healthy.


I would just train them a little before flower so you don't have a mess on your hands

And next time you can start earlier for a better yield to watt ratio.

It's all about using that light efficiently, especially its natural spread.

So when lights come on I'll send a couple pics to show u some. But be careful if your going to go do it.

I don't make big bends all at once. I bend a little by hand in morning. A little by hand mid day and usually layer in day it's soft enough to work around where I want it and tie it lightly with string. The next afternoon it's pointed up and needs to be re tied.

I've been making a round shape with mine on the top.

Ok so onto defoliate. It's controversial. Many awear by it. Many don't. Many are too scared to try it.

One thing that's agreed on is never defoliate everything you want off at once. You will shock her. This can be a week or two process depending on how much you want to take off.

So maybe a cut here or there then sit for two days. Then a cut here or there.

Why cut healthy leaves?

Well maybe they are in the way of bud sites after you train.
Ok. That one maybe can go.

Don't just go hacking button foliage because even if it looks dark down there light does prnetrate and she absorbs the energy in those lower fan leaves and uses it to power her new budsites - that's how they poke up their heads.

So folding down and out of the way might be better with fan leaves.

If they are dead or dying that's different.

Hope it helps. And you need more info on training them for flower. I'm just trying to get u on track to know what u trying to do.

So this is meant as general knowledge and for you to go research more. I would get with someone that has trained right before flower and ask what happen.

Your probably going to need headspace. So depending how much you currently have may be the best way to determine how far to bend them down.

They will stretch in flower and you will want your training done by then. At most training aCouple weeks into flower. Have her ready before flower so she can just go go go and your not trying to figure out how to bend buitiful buds.


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Your pvc thing is absolutely beautiful. Use that to train them it's probably perfect. It might need to go up to match your tall plant then put the short plant on something to higher it to the tall plant level. That is once tall plant is bent over.

I


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Another note. Sorry I keep remember shit.

A book I've got- growing elite ganja says defoliate changes hormones into more of a repair mode. So defoliate before flower they say is no good. Sounds like it reverts her to more of a veg state to repair damage rather than a state more appropriate for a switch to flower.

Maybe people here I've seen defoliate even in flower. Dunno man. Google scholar or search google with .edu parameter to try and figure that one out.

Seems obvious cutting would stress so I'm not sure why people would cut in flower and not do it through the veg instead.


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dude first of all thank you for your comprehensive feedback. Its been very informative for me to read this. So I'm going to research more about this and definetly do the training that you've mentioned before flowering. I believe It will really help me a lot as I didnt do topping or other methods in the beginning.

I will connect the black fan behind to the pvc structure and tie the leaves to it. and about the defoliation Ive also heard that its no good to make it in veg state. I will probable do some defoliating in flowering mode.

I will share my results here again so you can see my progress. thank you very much...
 
and by the way I've adjusted the smaller plant so that now their top are on the same height. and I am day by day writing down their distance to the light. Now they are 35cm distance to the light. when they grow I can adjust the led from the top to keep the same distance...
 
Careful on the lights. I used a lux meter and burned mine. Show us a picture how the lst is going?


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Here is example if u can catch them at right time you can get the top of your canopy like this one I Did.

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I pulled her main shoot down to about level of new growth tips once after daily bending by hand. Then after couple days or so pulled down again with the second twine you see to match the new growth tips and they all caught up. The auxins were displaced from main shoot to encourage the new growth to become dominate, all competing equally because I tied back ones that were far ahead through out the process also.

Good luck man hope all is well


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Hi Kingston, thank you for pointing it out, because I was given those seeds by a friend and I totally forgot that. yes they should be white diesel haze automatic. but I can not be sure because I could have mixedup some. but it looks like they are automatic.

On the other hand I've kept giving cal mag and canna ph down with %38 nitrogen. I guess I shouldn't be feeding them with nitrogen from now on. I have a very good soil that contains bat guano organically and includes good amount of potasium and phosforus. so I just need to change the light cycle so that the plants actually understands that its in flowering period and its reaching the end of summer.

also please take a look at the closer pictures that I took. I've bended the younger one slightly, and I couldnt bend the other because I think it is grown and not bendable anymore. also could you please take a look on the last image. is there any thing that I should be worried about? should I suspect of any bug that is eating my leaves? Its just one leave that is like this...
 
Guys by the way I have read more about the strain and it says the following: White Diesel Haze Automatic is an autoflowering hemp strain which means it will start flowering regardless of the lightcycle it is in.

so what should I do now? should I change the lightcycle to 12/12 or should I keep going with 18/6 ?
 
and guys sorry for posting lot, but I just read from growweadeasy.com that Autoflowering cannabis is thought to be best grown in anything between a 18/6 and 20/4 light cycle, as it gets a lot of light, but also has time to recover in darkness. It can, however, be grown in 12/12 permanently or 24/0 permanently.
 
Those plants have already started flowering. The auto thing is kind of an important detail. It's a much different plant.

Everything is still ok. Everything looks good.

Too bad you couldn't get that one bent.


You see all those hairs coming out of he plant. Well remember when those weren't there, all those white hairs. That's when it started moving towards flowering.

In soil they will probably want nutrients soon. That would be a question for a soil guy.




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I see sign of a leaf chewer like a single caterpillar.

My go to for nearly all pests is neem oil. It's the main ingredient in a lot of pest sprays. It will usually say so on the label so you dont need to read all ingredients.

A trick for bending rigid stems is to twist it back and forth until you hear tiny crunching sound. That separates the fibers. You will feel it get a little more flexible, twist a lttle farther and bend a little as you twist. Keep doing that until stem easily bends to where you want it. The stem will have noticeable twist where it bends, which helps it bend without snapping. Then tie it down or it will pull itself back upright.
Start with 1/8 and work up 1/2 way around. Shouldn't take longer than a few minutes or less.

And for autos I would go 18/6 not 24/0. Light/dark cycle helps flow between roots and leaves which make plant more productive. I don't grow autos, so if auto grower says different listen to them.

And for nutes you should keep feeding a little nitrogen until last few weeks. You want leaves to yellow in final 2 weeks but not too long before that. There are a lot of opinions on this so use your own judgment on what plants need each week.
 
Hi again my dear fellows :)

could you please check out my latest pics. I think I am on the way to a goood harvest. as I stringed the one on the left, it shows a big growth when you compared to the right one... So one question is should i let it live like this or I should cut the string?

and also the question of the harvest.. what do you think about the harvest time?

Im not sure about the harvest time? how much time do I have for a good harvest?

also i started to feed them with advanced nutrients big bud and the bud candy.. and I see a really better growth just in two days...

I am really really glad to have your responses and I will bbe very very very glad to have them moree... sooo could you please feedback me just a little bit more?

your appreciation is reallyy important to me and I love you :))))

sincerely and my best regards.... :)
 

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