My supersoil-ish mix, suggestions/ideas/etc.

[PYOP]

Hey guys, first of all I want to thank you for all the valuable information I found in here, I'm new to this forum but I've been reading a lot in the last few months.
I'm preparing for my second grow ever, and I really love the idea of using a good ammended mix that takes my plants through the whole cycle, without worrying about PH, nutes schedules, etc. the whole living soil makes a lot more sense to me, more natural, easier, and the quality is just unmatched, so what's not to love about it
So, with all the knowledge I've gathered from countless hours of research, I'd like to share my soil recipe with you, I'm open to any tips/ideas/suggestions.

First of all, I'm not from the US, I've searched everywhere for some reliable source of kelp/seaweed, without any success yet. So I guess that sadly, kelp meal is out of the equation, and yes, I know this will be one of the biggest flaws, so any suggestions about this matter will be really valuable.

So here's the recipe:

Base soil from scratch (I'll mix about 1 cu ft.):

1/3 perlite
1/3 coco
1/3 compost/EWC mix

PH buffer:
Dolomite: About 1/2 cup, Coco PH isn't as acid as Peat, maybe 1/4 cup would be better?

Ammendments (Again, this is for approximately 1 cu ft. base soil):

1 cup ground small Alfalfa pellets from the pet store (Couldn't find any meal)
1/2 cup high P Bat Guano
1/2 cup Bone Meal
1/2 cup Bentonite for trace minerals (As far as I read this is what Azomite is made of?)

I'll cook it for about a month or more before using it.

I don't mean to use any nutes, but I will prepare some ACTs, and will definitely use molasses through all of the cycle to keep the microherd happy.

It's a really basic mix, but I guess I could get some more stuff if I really needed to, except for kelp .


Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

 

[Conradino23]

You either grow in coco or in soil, mixing it in these proportions for sure won't be good for your grow especially with 30% of perlite, why do you need so much if it? I'd use 50% compost, 10% perlite, 10% coco, 20% worm castings, 5% bat guano and 5% of trace minerals. That's my opinion, man.

 

[PYOP]

You either grow in coco or in soil, mixing it in these proportions for sure won't be good for your grow especially with 30% of perlite, why do you need so much if it? I'd use 50% compost, 10% perlite, 10% coco, 20% worm castings, 5% bat guano and 5% of trace minerals. That's my opinion, man.

Quoted from COorganic's How to get started growing indoors organically (real organics w/o the bottles), and from what I've read in several places around the net:

I believe that this recipe allows for some substitutions and that the biggest thing is to stick to the 1/3 SPM, 1/3 aeration, 1/3 humus and the amendments at the specified ratios. ...

I thought this was a pretty standard thing.. Anyway, you suggest I leave the other stuff I mentioned aside? (Alfalfa and Bone meal)

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Keep in mind that COorganics uses peat moss in addition to perlite. Using coco and perlite in that amount may not be ideal. I have an open mind, but I am a little concerned that you will very easily over water with this mixture. Not to mentions very little of the medium will add any nutrients to the plant.

 

[Conradino23]

Exactly, you want aerated, light mix, but with good nutrient bottom and conditions for microbes and fungi to thrive. Coco will be negative for both as it's void of any unless you start composting it, and for that you need nitrogen. And what's the point of having it as an aeration agent if you already have perlite? I don't use neither, I usw biochar but c'mon start thinking about the roots, what they need and how they grow. As far as bone meal is concerned, why would you do that if you already have guano. Your phosphorus is gonna go through the roof, and mycorrhizae and globus varieties show much less activity if phosphorus is abundant. So what's the point of growing organically if you don't respect the basics? Also if you want your nitrogen to be locked out while bacteria are feeding on coco coir, there you go with compost. I'd also advise you to go for second opinion about this mix as there might be approach to break that kind of mix, but I just don't see it as a supersoil, which by the way I don't advise either cause nutrient levels are to high for stable grow and complex, rich terpenes of your bud.

 

[PYOP]

First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to reply guys.

Keep in mind that COorganics uses peat moss in addition to perlite. Using coco and perlite in that amount may not be ideal. I have an open mind, but I am a little concerned that you will very easily over water with this mixture. Not to mentions very little of the medium will add any nutrients to the plant.

Actually I'm replacing the peat part with coco, some of my reasons:

- Availability/price here
- Less prone to infestations (no fungus gnats)
- Less ph swings, coco breaks down way slower than peat moss
- Coco coir is actually a renewable source

Drainage should be good with the added perlite, and I still have the water retention, coco is even better at watering than peat when it dries out.
Don't know why I could be having overwatering issues, water holding capabilities are pretty close to peat actually, maybe a just a little bit less or am I wrong?

Exactly, you want aerated, light mix, but with good nutrient bottom and conditions for microbes and fungi to thrive. Coco will be negative for both as it's void of any unless you start composting it, and for that you need nitrogen. And what's the point of having it as an aeration agent if you already have perlite? I don't use neither, I usw biochar but c'mon start thinking about the roots, what they need and how they grow. As far as bone meal is concerned, why would you do that if you already have guano. Your phosphorus is gonna go through the roof, and mycorrhizae and globus varieties show much less activity if phosphorus is abundant. So what's the point of growing organically if you don't respect the basics? Also if you want your nitrogen to be locked out while bacteria are feeding on coco coir, there you go with compost. I'd also advise you to go for second opinion about this mix as there might be approach to break that kind of mix, but I just don't see it as a supersoil, which by the way I don't advise either cause nutrient levels are to high for stable grow and complex, rich terpenes of your bud.

- PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL PROPERTIES OF COIR DUST
- Roots should be pretty comfortable growing in a light an aereated mix, just like in peat+perlite, I don't see a difference there, perlite and coco when ammended with soil
- You are totally right about the P levels, I'm not adding the bone meal, I'm just adding 50/50, instead of a whole cup of guano, I think that variety is always good in these kind of mixes, plus some added calcium from there, I don't want to add too much lime. Should I reduce the total amount anyway?

I might layer my pots in 3 parts, probably top layer only compost and coco+perlite, then 50/50 with the cooked soil, and then some unblended mix at the bottom, what do you think?

 

[Conradino23]

I'd leave limestone out if you have compost as your PH will naturally drift towards 6.5-7.0, which is good. The only way that coco might be useful in that kind of mix is to serve as an aeration agent, but the more uncomposted material you push into organic soil the more nitrogen you're gonna lose in the process (read about nitrification). That means this nitrogen will be locked out and that may result in deficiency early in your grow. Perlite is better for this purpose I think than coco. Anyway, you should think about inoculating roots very early too to get full benefit of organic soil, and check how high your compost is in NPK and how it was made. I know mine pretty well for example and I always supplement it with a bit of wood ash, which is potassium-rich, but your stuff might not need this at all. It's not so easy to dial it in organically unless you know your stuff pretty well.

 

[PYOP]

The stuff is pretty good, it's bagged but made locally, you can easily grow other plants in it without adding any extra nutrients, I think it'll be ok. I just want to supercharge it a bit, so I'm adding the ammendments listed and let it cook for a month or more.
I will be adding some diatomaceous earth as well, just bought some today.
I'll provide it with ACTs to help with the cooking, and once the plant is there I'll be feeding with molasses too.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to reply guys.



Actually I'm replacing the peat part with coco, some of my reasons:

- Availability/price here
- Less prone to infestations (no fungus gnats)
- Less ph swings, coco breaks down way slower than peat moss
- Coco coir is actually a renewable source

Drainage should be good with the added perlite, and I still have the water retention, coco is even better at watering than peat when it dries out.
Don't know why I could be having overwatering issues, water holding capabilities are pretty close to peat actually, maybe a just a little bit less or am I wrong?



- PHYSICAL, CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL PROPERTIES OF COIR DUST
- Roots should be pretty comfortable growing in a light an aereated mix, just like in peat+perlite, I don't see a difference there, perlite and coco when ammended with soil
- You are totally right about the P levels, I'm not adding the bone meal, I'm just adding 50/50, instead of a whole cup of guano, I think that variety is always good in these kind of mixes, plus some added calcium from there, I don't want to add too much lime. Should I reduce the total amount anyway?

I might layer my pots in 3 parts, probably top layer only compost and coco+perlite, then 50/50 with the cooked soil, and then some unblended mix at the bottom, what do you think?

Honestly I thought you meant coco rocks like for hydroponics! My bad. That would have been ridiculous.

However, I would still recommend you go with one or the other. Peat degrades faster and doesn't retain as much water over the life of the soil, where as coir degrades slower and retains more moisture. Conradino has recommended biochar...another option is lava rock...both will mineralize the soil over time, serving a dual purpose.

Conradino has also mentioned that there is the potential for Nitrogen lock out because of too much organic matter (coir and compost) within the soil. To put it simply, this occurs because bacteria, archaea, protozoa and pretty much everything else in the rhizosphere feed on the over abundance of organic matter in the soil (disturbing the natural food cycle where for example protozoa would prey on bacteria), and as a result excessive amounts of Nitrogen are released which can actually end up being toxic. I personally don't see this as extremely likely, but its still possible and is something to keep in mind when building your own soil. The trick here is the make up of your compost, me thinks. You will potentially have a soil that is around 40% organic matter...which could be a recipe for lock out.

Here's some home work

I personally will be implementing rotten leaves from the Fall and a small amount of lava rock in my next soil build moisture retention. I have worms so aeration isn't as big of a worry. I too have to keep in mind that there is a fine line between the biological/nutrient diversity offered by such an amendment (leaves) and soil toxicity. Too much of a good thing yadda yadda...

I think if you stick with just the coir or perlite in a slightly smaller dosage you will be fine. Also consider making your compost/EWC mix probably about a 25/75% mix in favor of the EWC. Castings are apt at moisture retention as well, and have the added benefits of buffering the soil and facilitating nutrient transfer.

 

[Conradino23]

The stuff is pretty good, it's bagged but made locally, you can easily grow other plants in it without adding any extra nutrients, I think it'll be ok. I just want to supercharge it a bit, so I'm adding the ammendments listed and let it cook for a month or more.
I will be adding some diatomaceous earth as well, just bought some today.
I'll provide it with ACTs to help with the cooking, and once the plant is there I'll be feeding with molasses too.

Feeding with molasses is not really feeding your plant, it's more of a giving food for the microbes in the rootzone, and this has to be already developed to get any benefit. I'd start it since late veg if I were you and wouldn't do it more than three times throughout the grow as you're gonna destroy the balance between the fungi and bacteria otherwise, not mentioning that you're gonna inject too much potassium, which will lower Brix potential and cause micronutrient deficiencies.

 

[PYOP]

So I made the mix last night and ammended it with the stuff I mentioned, with some corrections.
I'm brewing a tea to give it a little kickstart on the bacteria, I'll leave it about a month and try it out with some autos I ordered.
Hope I have some time to start a journal and share my experiences with the mix.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Good luck buddy.

 

[SweetSue]

So I made the mix last night and ammended it with the stuff I mentioned, with some corrections.
I'm brewing a tea to give it a little kickstart on the bacteria, I'll leave it about a month and try it out with some autos I ordered.
Hope I have some time to start a journal and share my experiences with the mix.

What corrections? The guys made some very strong points geared at helping you build a living organic soil that will make your grow an easier success. I'm interested in how you changed your initial recipe. Rest assured, they will grow regardless. We'd just like to help you have them thrive with as little frustration as possible.

 

[PYOP]

What corrections? The guys made some very strong points geared at helping you build a living organic soil that will make your grow an easier success. I'm interested in how you changed your initial recipe. Rest assured, they will grow regardless. We'd just like to help you have them thrive with as little frustration as possible.

Yes, maybe I should have posted the new recipe, sorry about that. And again thanks for taking the time to reply.

The final mix consisted in a basic mix of:

30% coco coir
30% perlite
40% compost, which had a 30% added EWC from another source, no need for more because the initial compost already has it in them, just wanted to use 2 different castings.

Only 3 tbsp of Dolomite, mixed with 1 tbsp of limestone - Half the initial amount and adjusted the Ca/Mg ratio

As for the ammendments:

1 cup ground small Alfalfa pellets
1/2 cup high P Bat Guano
2 tbsp Bone Meal
1 cup Bentonite
1/2 cup diatomaceous earth

I'll cook it about a month, start the plants in a hole made in the pot, with the same mix but no added nutrients, and layer the soil below:

First half 50/50 with the cooked soil and the soil mix
Then unblended cooked soil at the second half

All of this because I don't want to stunt the autoflowering ladies transplanting them, does it make sense?

 

[ClosedCircuit]

50/50 soil and then amendments, right?

 

[PYOP]

50/50 soil and then amendments, right?

I meant 50% soil mix with ammendments, 50% without them, just a little bit lighter on the nutrient side.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I meant 50% soil mix with ammendments, 50% without them, just a little bit lighter on the nutrient side.

HA ya that's a bit confusing.


Dude, I wouldn't worry about it too much. The only way we'll know if it works is if it works or not. There certainly isn't one right answer with growing. I'm interested to see what becomes of your grow.

 

[Conradino23]

Ok man, good luck! And drop a line how it came out when you finish your grow.