About Hollow Stems
- Thread starter Bonbon88
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How hollow? The comment about it causing cuttings from the plant to decay and die instead of root causes me to think "drinking straw hollow." Can be indicative of insufficient calcium over a (relatively) long period of time. You've posted this thread in the "Coco Growing" section of the forum. I assume that was done on purpose, and done because you use it for your substrate/medium. So: After initially hydrating and rinsing your coco coir, did you pre-treat it with something like a calcium nitrate solution, one of the "calcium + magnesium" products, et cetera? Did you allow it to dry out at any time afterwards, while the plant was growing in it? And... all cannabis plants use a lot of calcium; it's probably #4 on the list of elements, ranked by consumption - but are the ones that you're seeing this issue in known as "hogs" in that regard?
Are you using tap water, which generally has some calcium in it? If so, has it been through a water softener (which removes calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) ions)? Water that has been through a water softener is not recommended to be used on plants. It does this by replacing those ions with sodium ions, lol, so it's not really something you'd want to drink, either, especially if you have high blood pressure, a history of heart attacks in your family, are on a low-sodium diet, et cetera. Or do you use distilled water or water that has been through a reverse osmosis device? Those don't have any calcium (etc.) content.
Finally, are you seeing the classic "mosaic patches" of necrotic tissue on the leaves, which is a sign of a more extreme calcium deficiency? When it gets that bad, the gardener usually notices and treats it by adding one of the aforementioned products, at least until no more of those things are appearing. But not necessarily enough to really supply sufficient calcium to the plant, long term.
There are other elements that, when not present in sufficient quantities, can lead to hollow stems. Boron is one, if I remember correctly. But that's more rare.
EDIT: Could also be something living in and eating your stems from the inside, I suppose. But when that's the case, people often (eventually) discover the actual creature.
Are you using tap water, which generally has some calcium in it? If so, has it been through a water softener (which removes calcium (Ca2+) and magnesium (Mg2+) ions)? Water that has been through a water softener is not recommended to be used on plants. It does this by replacing those ions with sodium ions, lol, so it's not really something you'd want to drink, either, especially if you have high blood pressure, a history of heart attacks in your family, are on a low-sodium diet, et cetera. Or do you use distilled water or water that has been through a reverse osmosis device? Those don't have any calcium (etc.) content.
Finally, are you seeing the classic "mosaic patches" of necrotic tissue on the leaves, which is a sign of a more extreme calcium deficiency? When it gets that bad, the gardener usually notices and treats it by adding one of the aforementioned products, at least until no more of those things are appearing. But not necessarily enough to really supply sufficient calcium to the plant, long term.
There are other elements that, when not present in sufficient quantities, can lead to hollow stems. Boron is one, if I remember correctly. But that's more rare.
EDIT: Could also be something living in and eating your stems from the inside, I suppose. But when that's the case, people often (eventually) discover the actual creature.
Which is a whole new ballgame for beginners.
I am wondering if it is a case of trying to take cuttings from very young stems and getting those to root.
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HorseBadoritz
Well-Known Member
Embolisms come to mind? Hasn't been a problem of mine, but I have seen it for others.
Personally, I like woodier, older stems for clones, and a pH around 5.6, but that's just me.
Personally, I like woodier, older stems for clones, and a pH around 5.6, but that's just me.
Take a photo of the plant and another photo zooming in on, or a close-up photo, the damaged area.
Take the photo in white light and not under the grow lights so people can see the natural colors of the plant and the colors that could indicate what the problem is.
That never hurts. Comparing your plants to the images found in a nutrient deficiency/excess can allow you to diagnose acute issues. Reading the accompanying text can help with that, too, and also provide some knowledge that can be helpful in determining whether a plant has suffered a lesser, but chronic, issue. There is also a thing called "Mulder's Chart." Its purpose is to show something about the relationships between the various elements that plants use. It might look complicated at first glance, but it really isn't. Here is one such article:
Feeding too much of one element can have more repercussions than merely causing a toxic excess of that particular element - it can also cause a "deficiency condition" of one or more other elements. IF that is the case, adding more of the other elements is not the answer; dealing with the excess is. In fact, attempting to "band aid" the problem by adding more and more of those other elements can end up causing still more issues with additional elements, because... relationships.
Answering some of the questions I posted about your media might provide some opportunity for insight, too. E.g., did you pretreat your coco coir with any kind of calcium solution (maybe with some kind of magnesium added) after rinsing it, to help "precharge" it (replace much of the sodium ions with Ca and Mg ones)? If not, that process might have been occurring later, and accounted for some portion of the calcium and magnesium that was in your nutrient solution. If you allowed it to become dry at some point, it might have caused some of those ions to get released when the media was rehydrated and, thus, started the process of capturing the all over again. I'm not as knowledgeable about coco coir as I perhaps should be, so it is possible that I am mistaken about how that works.
Coco coir, unlike, for example, perlite, is not "dead" (inert and mostly non-reactive), so to speak. That makes using it just a little more complicated. Not that it cannot be used for the purpose, or even that it's somehow not a good substance to use - lots of people do, and do so to good effect, so it obviously works. However... I suppose a good way to put it might be that there is more to understand with coco coir, and that kind of knowledge can be one of the differences between being a good/decent grower and a "master gardener." There are many charts/threads/articles on the subject of elemental deficiencies and felicities available both here and elsewhere. They are great for identifying acute issues, and should be part of every gardener's knowledge base (regardless of the type of plants being grown). But those things are not an absolute guarantee that the level of one or more things might not be somewhat less than optimum. Imagine being a child who is growing up with less than optimum nutritional intake. He/she might not exhibit signs of acute malnutrition, yet still be affected by minor deficiencies if he/she experiences them long term.
IDK. I'm just rambling on a Sunday morning, lol.
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Feeding too much of one element can have more repercussions than merely causing a toxic excess of that particular element - it can also cause a "deficiency condition" of one or more other elements. IF that is the case, adding more of the other elements is not the answer; dealing with the excess is. In fact, attempting to "band aid" the problem by adding more and more of those other elements can end up causing still more issues with additional elements, because... relationships.
Answering some of the questions I posted about your media might provide some opportunity for insight, too. E.g., did you pretreat your coco coir with any kind of calcium solution (maybe with some kind of magnesium added) after rinsing it, to help "precharge" it (replace much of the sodium ions with Ca and Mg ones)? If not, that process might have been occurring later, and accounted for some portion of the calcium and magnesium that was in your nutrient solution. If you allowed it to become dry at some point, it might have caused some of those ions to get released when the media was rehydrated and, thus, started the process of capturing the all over again. I'm not as knowledgeable about coco coir as I perhaps should be, so it is possible that I am mistaken about how that works.
Coco coir, unlike, for example, perlite, is not "dead" (inert and mostly non-reactive), so to speak. That makes using it just a little more complicated. Not that it cannot be used for the purpose, or even that it's somehow not a good substance to use - lots of people do, and do so to good effect, so it obviously works. However... I suppose a good way to put it might be that there is more to understand with coco coir, and that kind of knowledge can be one of the differences between being a good/decent grower and a "master gardener." There are many charts/threads/articles on the subject of elemental deficiencies and felicities available both here and elsewhere. They are great for identifying acute issues, and should be part of every gardener's knowledge base (regardless of the type of plants being grown). But those things are not an absolute guarantee that the level of one or more things might not be somewhat less than optimum. Imagine being a child who is growing up with less than optimum nutritional intake. He/she might not exhibit signs of acute malnutrition, yet still be affected by minor deficiencies if he/she experiences them long term.
IDK. I'm just rambling on a Sunday morning, lol.
CelestialNurseries
Well-Known Member
I was going to make a new thread but will just piggy back on this dead one. Back story....same strain different phenos...coco soil organic blend..clones that are 1 month from cutting. Treated exactly the same. The hollow one is the best out of 100 so far during the veg round of cuts...it grew 12" in two weeks from transplanting from cubes.
