High Pressure Aeroponics

[SmokeyMacPots]

Hey man, thanks for coming thru with the pics! I apologize for my original statements towards you. I belong to a few other forums, not all about marijuana, and have seen some people do some shady things for advertisement. I guess this internet has got me all paranoid! But anyways, props on the setup and I can't wait to dig into this one and learn something new!

 

[19camaro78]

Are you applying CO2 also?

 

[PetFlora]

Smokey- no worries. A journal is a HUGE labor of love. This grow round, I will not need to report as often. In my other J, I was doing lot of experimenting and reporting about the trials and tribulations. It's mostly sorted out now.

Hey 19, No CO2 yet, but one never knows

 

[Sky Rocket]

I'm all aboard. Your flowering unit in the double tote ruubbermaid 18 gal bens looks like my veg units exceppt my pump is submerge in water at the bottom. Aka stinkbud style. I'm using botanicare but I do use dutch masters with add .27 in my 5 gallon dwc bucket.

 

[ozric420]

I'm in for this one

 

[PetFlora]

Couple more start up pics

Available at Lowes/HD... Now once plants fill out you will need to put a rubber stopper around the base or eventually the plant will fall through

I went crazy here, as I did not expect much of my 20 year old bag seed to germinate. HA!

 

[Hogdady]

Seems like a lot of expense/tubs/problems when you can do as well or better with a simple hempy bucket. But I did not go to college so could be wrong about that!

I have my doubts that hempy can compete with aeroponics.....

 

[PetFlora]

What's the old saying If you haven't tried it, don't knock it. Opinions from those without experience in the conversation make fools of themselves.

If hempy buckets were as good NASA would be using them.

I like to live out on the cutting edge. It keeps my mind active

 

[Hogdady]

There is another member here that journaled an aero grow...his results were amazing!

 

[PetFlora]

The only thing in the way of AMAZING HPA results is driver error.

Lord knows I've made my fair share of mistakes, but that's how you learn.

You can only glean so much by reading.

 

[Hogdady]

I like to live out on the cutting edge. It keeps my mind active

I wouldn't exactly call aero cutting edge, but it definately has me interested...

 

[PetFlora]

What's beyond aero for delivering nutrients to roots in the most efficient method possible?

Now there are variations of HPA, like using an accumulator to fine tune the feed times to under one second. The result is better roots than you can imagine.

They become veritable gluttons when fed the right way. And man they get fat, not spaghetti string fat like DWC and low pressure aero produce, fat like a cheer leaders pom-poms. Each fish bone gets covered in fuzzies- think pipe cleaner.

 

[Hogdady]

I just meant that the technology isn't what I would call cutting edge.

The real question is, does the yield parallel the root growth or is there a point where root growth is just root growth?

 

[PetFlora]

OK, then what is being developed BEYOND HPA that knocks it down from being 'cutting edge'?


You might also want to visit my Forum Thread
DM Liquid Light/Saturator and LEDs

 

[Hogdady]

OK, then what is being developed BEYOND HPA that knocks it down from being 'cutting edge'?


You might also want to visit my Forum Thread
DM Liquid Light/Saturator and LEDs

1) As far as the technology of the components and system operation is concerned, there is nothing cutting edge about it..... it's low tech.

2) You didn't answer my question about yield......

 

[PetFlora]

Why HPA is better than any other DWC method

Most growers are not aware that a plants root system is as long as the plant is tall. Soil SOGers can compensate with large footprint containers that don't need to be too deep: a concrete mixing tub from Lowes/HD should do the trick. However, if you try to use something low like this in a DWC system, you will run into a ton of root born problems around the 3-4 week of flower, that are blamed on nutrient deficiencies, when that is seldom the cause. Why?

DWC roots function optimally when they occupy the same relative space as they would if the roots were growing down, unrestricted in soil searching for moisture and nutrients. The farther away from mother nature a home growers system is, the more problems are likely to result. I have yet to see a DWC system that attempts to duplicate a plant roots natural tendencies. Growers who get good results with DWC would get much better results with significantly less potential for sickly plants, and nutrient deficiencies if they switched to High Pressure Aeroponics (HPA.)

A strain that grows 3 ft above ground will grow a 3 foot deep tap root during the grow phase. A few weeks into flower a large root ball develops near the plant in preparation to drink as much P & K as is available in order to develop nice fat buds. Under ideal conditions the root ball resembles pompoms. On a 3 ft tree this pompom could be the size of a basketball. Since the roots don't know when to say when, they will feast until they poison themselves. SO BE CAREFUL with the P & K. There is such as thing as too much, although some strains can eat more than others without consequences.

DWC vs HPA

A typical DWC root zone chamber is shallow. It contains a low pressure pump, spray bars, bubblers, and nutrients. All is fine until 3-4 weeks into flower when the root mass starts clogging everything up into a tangled mess- literally. Why? The inevitable massive root structure has no where to go. So is DWC SOG off the table? Hell no! It's alive, and better than ever.

SOG & HPA are a match made in heaven. Inside the root zone of a HPA grow pod, all that's needed are the mist heads, leaving plenty of room for the crazy root growth to quickly come. A HP pump (costs <$150) and rez (with bubblers) sits outside the root zone. It pulls nutrients out of the rez and pushes them through small 10-50 micron mist heads under 50-100 psi, which delivers them to the roots as an aerosol, which is ideal for the roots to feed upon. What the roots don't consume falls to the bottom and are eliminated via D2W.

To accommodate a genetic 3 ft plant, that has multiple 1 ft colas above the screen you will need about 6 vertical feet and then your light. Lowryder type strains reduce the vertical height some 12-18".

Aside from maintaining pH (start at 5.4-let it rise to 6.0, then bring down), nute strength (600-800 ppms in full bloom) and making sure the RH inside the chamber is ~70 degrees, and using silica, and fulvic acid, you can pretty much sit back and watch the real fun begin. If you use chelated nutes, the pH isn't too critical

 

[MountainHigh]

I am curious as to the mechanism in the roots that makes this method any better than any other hydroponics...are you literally saying the head "forces" nutes through the root membrane so are that much more efficient?... Oxygen versus nutrient uptake, hummm...should be an interesting watch.

Personally I am doing just fine with my low hassle, low cost soil setup, so would take something exceptionally worth the major hassle this is obviously gonna be to make me consider changing.

I am happy you are excited about your growing method and if you are like me are just excited about growing ... but it is my advice that you master this, then move on to another style of growing and another...can never be sure this method is worth the effort until you try other stuff and the knowledge you will gain along the way will be worth the effort.

On a side note: I have tried Dutchmasters and it is clean stuff, smells fruity... It's ph buffering is a rough fight for soil, definitely a hydro nute.


and subscribed, if you are this excited about this method, least I can do is watch..

 

[PetFlora]

Reading your question, it's hard for me to believe that you aren't being a smart ass maybe you're just high right now), but just in case you really are totally clueless about converting nutrition to energy...

Let me try to explain it another way. The reason why we told to properly chew our food (instead of gulping it down) is because properly masticated food is easier to digest. The easier it is to digest, the easier it is to convert to energy.

In HPA, the nutrients are being delivered to the roots in their most bioavailable form, which means the roots can ingest more of them.

 

[Hogdady]

In HPA, the nutrients are being delivered to the roots in their most bioavailable form, which means the roots can ingest more of them.

So how does HPA differ from LPA in this regard?

 

[MountainHigh]

Reading your question, it's hard for me to believe that you aren't being a smart ass maybe you're just high right now), but just in case you really are totally clueless about converting nutrition to energy...

Let me try to explain it another way. The reason why we told to properly chew our food (instead of gulping it down) is because properly masticated food is easier to digest. The easier it is to digest, the easier it is to convert to energy.

In HPA, the nutrients are being delivered to the roots in their most bioavailable form, which means the roots can ingest more of them.

I am having a hard time staying civil, but I will try...that is. I guess maybe I was trying to be civil but wanted to be a smart ass, when I was calling you on something I see no proof of coming from someone with an obvious chip on their shoulder or something to prove...well think of me as from Missouri...SHOW ME.

I was serious, explain why since you seem to be representing yourself as an expert, why HPA is better than DWC or Aeroponics or just simple Ebb and Flow as a hydroponics delivery system for water and nutrients...I am not seeing how vapor is gonna be more or less efficient at having the nutrients sitting on the outside of the root membrane (since mist condenses to liquid on the roots anyway, thereby coating them the same as if they had been dipped in water, no matter what the delivery system). Or are you saying the vapor once condensed will somehow hold more available oxygen, maybe more than the root system needs so you can supercharge the system with oxygen? Seeing supposition without proof...and please don't represent the buds you harvested as anything special my friend unless you grew them in complete darkness....see now I am getting mean. I am far from perfect and far from an expert, but I am trying to do my due diligence and learn about the plant I love...so let me continue.

The thing is I do understand (more or less) the energy conversion system in plants and their requirements for their to be available oxygen (only possible improvement HPA has which I really don't see, hence the question) to the root system to convert that to the basic building blocks that are carried through the Xylem to the meristem and outer structures to increase leaf, stalk or bud size (specifically in cannabis). And the "energy", basic sugars are carried downward to other area's of the plant through the Phloem.

But we aren't talking about circulation, we are talking about transport and specifically through the cell membrane on the roots right?....Why does HPA provide better passive transport like diffusion or osmosis or does it somehow force the plant into more active transports like pinocytosis or phagocytosis?

So I was asking a serious question, perhaps a loaded one that I already knew the answer to....but am willing to be enlightened as I am far from an expert and just love growing pot.

BTW the bioavailability of the nutrient isn't changed by the delivery system unless you are claiming the vibrations to be ripping the salts apart, more than being suspended in water does anyway. Hydro versus Organic have different suppliers for their bioavailable nutes (ones that will pass the cell membrane on the feeder roots) but the transport through the cell wall is the same and molecule size has more to do with it for the passive transports. Now maybe more oxygen will aid in the active transport systems on the feeder roots but you haven't shown me to any degree of satisfaction by either the fruits of your labor (wasn't impressed by the sample photos) or real science, the why...why do you think your system delivers?

BTW look up OBXgardener, you aren't the first here to have tried that delivery system, and I trust him and he switched to the simplicity of Hempy as far as I know over that and he used long tubes so his roots could dangle like you are suggesting, everything.

Back to lurking now, will watch and be entertained and hope you do well, these boards are more about not being jerks to one another and about learning and good vibes...hope you can lower your tone a bit and maybe you can learn something here, some real nice grows here and maybe, just maybe we will learn something from you...is how this is suppose to work.

And the truth is I am high most of the time, I manage my pain with pot only and sometimes my mood is aided by it. (Sometimes not, like now...)