How important is it to keep mothers? Why the fuss over keeping her?

[dirtybud]

I am trying to understand what the big deal is for growers to produce the mother if you have a certain strain to prove genetics. Is that the extent of it?
I have grown from seeds. But rather than keep an old girls around, I'd rather put her in flower and take my clones from her when I prune and shape her. So I am thinking if DNA is DNA, there should be anything to vary the outcome of genetics from generation to generation.
Is seed the only superior form of growing? I am 3 generations in and I see no difference from when I first started.

So why the fuss? Can someone tell me if I can go indefinitely with my cloning? Is it REALLY that important to keep my mothers?

And my leaf tips always burn and yellow and end of life. Mine don't stay green and pretty like everyone elses.

 

[Auggie]

This subject has been debated for ages ...
The scientists say that a plant clone is exactly the same as the original from seed plant. No difference no matter how many generations.
The logic is, however, that a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy starts losing something. Ever done that on a copy machine?
But, a plant is not a photograph.

Running a SCROG or perpetual grow, I have taken clones off of plants right before flipping them over to 12 - 12 for many generations with no apparent effect - good or bad. In fact, I think that sometimes it actually improves the line because I only take cuttings from the "alpha" girls. The ones that are the fastest growing, thickest stalk etc. The weak spindly ones I don't take a cutting from - - so bad traits are bred out of the next generation.

Just my observations ...

~ Auggie ~

 

[dirtybud]

Hey augie. That's been my feeling too experimenting with my grow. I have also kept some stunted mothers around. It's been a painful process after stunting a new set of seedlings. Took me nearly a year of reviving a prized strain. Screwed up the pH. But after all that, the genetics were intact and no ill traits were passed down. New clones from a plant with an unhealthy start - look great!
It just seems that some folks have certain objectives where mothers and bloodline are needed as proof. But for personal use, as long as I know where it came from, all is good.

 

[Auggie]

It just seems that some folks have certain objectives where mothers and bloodline are needed as proof. But for personal use, as long as I know where it came from, all is good.

That is an interesting last sentence. I am a clone farmer - I supply several collectives in N. Cali and a small number (at no charge, btw) of patients who grow their own meds (I also provide consulting services to these folks). I have never had to worry about providing "proof" of genetics. My patients and collectives know that when Auggie says it is what it is, it is. I even lab pretest my mothers (pre flower) to determine the CBD to THC ratios.

It is of utmost importance, in my opinion, that a consumer trust their source. If they don't then they are dealing with the wrong provider. If someone needed further 'proof' of a plant I provide - I would simply advise them to find someone that they trust.

But that's just the way us old curmudgeons do things.

~ Auggie ~

 

[dirtybud]

Well, I came across a blog on buying clones.
Rule 1: don't buy from a grower that couldn't show proof of the mother.
I suppose there are few who have duped folks giving us all a bad rap. But it got me thinking ... is that s huge problem?
I'd like to try a new strain and see if I can do it. (Such as new whites, gg4 or blue dream. Not sure how to find a supplier). They say hybrids are for advanced growers. (???) But I'd like to try ...
And are hybrids finicky as they say?

 

[Auggie]

I have taken cuttings from growers that I trust and pass them on to others - who trust me. It's a matter of trust.

Every plant is different - and every strain is different. I had a field full of OG Kush once (prolly about 50 of them). A very hearty and heavy producer, great outdoors. There was three plants that would droop if I messed with them. Did some fimming, or grooming, or whatever ... all I had to do was touch them and they'd droop like they were dying. Half hour later they forgot and all was well. Prissy bitches: "Oh, he touched me..." LoL. They're all different. But there are traits that are common to certain strains too. I remember I grew some UK Cheese once. Attracted EVERY spider mite, thief and cop for miles. Musta been the smell. LoL. And I remember the Tahoe OG ... got PM if the RH went above zero ...

They're all different.

Learning more means stretching. Reaching beyond your current abilities. That's true in all facets of life. It's a good thing to reach for the stars. However, I encourage newbies to go for the easy ones first - to build up some confidence. I just hate it when I hear someone say "Yea, I tried to grow once, but I guess I just don't have a green thumb." Often, its because they chose a difficult strain.

~ Auggie ~

PS: Also, think about it. How can I show "proof" of the mother's genetics? A receipt from the seed bank? Doesn't mean that's the seed that I stuck in the dirt ... How does a grower prove genetics? It boils down to trust. The first time I get caught lying about a strain - I am out of business. The first time I bring babies to a collective with mites on them - I am out of business. I have spent years building a reputation ... what's that worth?

 

[dirtybud]

True. Good point. I was reading a blog or something on how to buy clones. And it got me wondering ...
Article went on to say: 1. Avoid Craigslist 2. Ask for proof that they have the mother (?). And some other things.
But yes. Just because you have a mother ...
I guess there are a lot of scammers out there to warrant such an article.
I really appreciate your comments. Since you are a clone provider, I'd like your opinion.
Whats the strongest strain you'd recommend to a new grower that would like to experiment. I was trying decide on a new strain that wasn't offered in seed yet. I happen to feel confident with the strains I have now from seed. SLH, NL, WW, Afgan Reg., and Trainwreck.

 

[dirtybud]

I should ad that the strains listed are all from feminized seeds.
And I was tired when I wrote this.

"But yes. Just because you have a mother ... doesn't mean that's where the clone came from."

 

[DukeO]

I have grown all those on your list.

I would say the SLH and Trainweck are the most likely to have issues.

SLH and be touchy about her nutes. I have found I need to cut out about 25to30% on N with her.

You need to watch Trainwreck at the end of flower for going hermy or putting out bananas.

The rest were straight forward for me.

I found NL to be a pain to trim. But there is a wide range of NL out there now. The ones I had where to leafy for me.


If you want you grow some mind blow stuff that is easy to grow and puts out a crazy amount of killer bud.

Try Dr Krippling's Amazing Bulk. That is a easy growing plant that really puts out a lot of potent bud.

Give her a little extra cal-meg the first three weeks of flower and then sit back and have your mind blown by what she can do...LoL

Good Luck to you!

True. Good point. I was reading a blog or something on how to buy clones. And it got me wondering ...
Article went on to say: 1. Avoid Craigslist 2. Ask for proof that they have the mother (?). And some other things.
But yes. Just because you have a mother ...
I guess there are a lot of scammers out there to warrant such an article.
I really appreciate your comments. Since you are a clone provider, I'd like your opinion.
Whats the strongest strain you'd recommend to a new grower that would like to experiment. I was trying decide on a new strain that wasn't offered in seed yet. I happen to feel confident with the strains I have now from seed. SLH, NL, WW, Afgan Reg., and Trainwreck.

 

[bcblazer]

My humble opinion: It is very important to keep mom(s). Auggie hit it right on! Supergood info & Auggie you lab pre-test for thc/cbd..freaking awesome! your people must be very happy.. I'm just an old school green thumb indoor dirt farmer with my 2 cents worth. The right mom and all her kids can go for years..my longest was about 7yrs.. I too only ever take babies from my absolute best girls..this is rule # 1..the rest is up to you and mother nature and she will let you know when she's getting weak. make sure you "talk nice to her everyday" and she will show you lotsa love for a long time..

 

[Auggie]

Dirty: My standard recommendations for new growers is Blue Dream, AK-47, Bubba Kush, or True Kush, or OG Kush. All are forgiving of mistakes, grow well in or out doors, and produce well. For indoor (especially SCROG) I recommend C99 Cindy. While waiting for clone season to start, I am SCROGing some Purple Cadillac. I'm in second week of flower. She has proven to be a very nice indoor plant, filled in the screen quickly. Only 'problem' I've had with her so far is that she seems to be a bit Magnesium hungry. A pinch of Epsom Salts as a top dressing once a week takes care of her nicely. (I am a cheap bastard, and I hate spending $30 for a small bottle of something that I will use up in a couple of weeks, when a bag of Epsom Salts for $4 and some crushed up egg shells do the same thing for months).

When I am growing a new mom, I use feminized seed. I've never had a problem with them, always female and never had one go hermie on me.

~ Auggie ~

 

[cannilingus]

i have never kept a mother plant. i choose which pheno i like, from a couple gens of a sterin, then, the i just have to take cuttings, off a plant, before putting it into bloom. the genetics dont change. so i have done fine with this technique. i did, however forget to take a clone, off a free seed plant, a "critical super silver haze". so i re-vegged her, and perhaps today, take like five cuttings off it, and i saved the strein. lol.

 

[bcblazer]

i have never kept a mother plant. i choose which pheno i like, from a couple gens of a sterin, then, the i just have to take cuttings, off a plant, before putting it into bloom. the genetics dont change. so i have done fine with this technique. i did, however forget to take a clone, off a free seed plant, a "critical super silver haze". so i re-vegged her, and perhaps today, take like five cuttings off it, and i saved the strein. lol.

Hi cannilingus.. I have also used your technique and agree it works very well..also love your Critical SSH story..been there done that.. glad to hear you rescued her!..I've had to take cuttings off sticky gooey 9 weekers because I also forgot,and whew!! I was able to save my lovely lady and thankfully she gave me many nice babies.

take care..

 

[BlackPolo23]

+CSSH is a must keep!!!