Plant is droopy and dark green...

[Tipistroy]

Hey guys! I have a plant here that been droopy for 5-6 days now... not overwatered, was dry yesterday so only gave her 500ml just in case it was to much water last time! She had 1L last time. Temperature is at 77-78, RH at 45-50. Growing in promix soil at 60% with 20% perlite and 20% EWC.

 

[AngryBird]

Tipi, she might just want different feeding than the others...
@Emilya ...care to look?

 

[Tipistroy]

I never thought of that... @AngryBird . She is 2 weeks younger then the other 3, but she never looked as good as all the others. Been a 2 week now and still droopy. I give her another week and if she doesn't grow faster and look better by next weekend she goes out!! (hopefully not)

 

[Emilya Green]

Hi Tipistroy, and thanks for the call AngryBird...

I want to investigate your watering methods some more. It greatly concerns me that you could happily give one amount one time and a different amount the next time, and I believe I know how this is happening.

You call the symptom drooping... but I call it pointing. The leaf tips are pointing to the problem... it is at the roots.

I suspect that you are overwatering by watering too often. This constantly keeps the bottom of the container wet. Roots are not designed to stay submerged and after a time they will protect themselves by putting a protective coating on, waiting for the flood to subside. During this time you will notice a downturn in activity, a lack of transpiration (the droop) and if not corrected, they will start to die.

These weeds do not like to be constantly wet. They thrive in adversity. They want to dry out, all the way to the bottom between waterings. When this happens, instead of being in a protective mode, the roots thrive, expand and seek out more water. Happy roots mean a happy plant, and when the roots are happy, the leaves will be happy and pointing up to the light, instead of the ground.

The best way to accomplish this is called the lift method. Lift up your container. Lift up a similar container filled with dry soil. Do not water again until your container feels like the test one. As you get closer and closer to that point, the leaves will pick up.

When you do water again, do it completely. Do it slowly and attempt to get the soil to soak up the very most that it can hold. Measure that amount. It should steadily increase as your roots grow and anytime it slows down, you know the plant is reacting to something. After completely saturating the soil, do not water again until the plant uses up every bit of the water and the container is again light as a feather. Do this 3 times and I guarantee you that your plants will look night and day different than they do today.
---Sense Emilya

 

[Tipistroy]

Hi Tipistroy, and thanks for the call AngryBird...

I want to investigate your watering methods some more. It greatly concerns me that you could happily give one amount one time and a different amount the next time, and I believe I know how this is happening.

You call the symptom drooping... but I call it pointing. The leaf tips are pointing to the problem... it is at the roots.

I suspect that you are overwatering by watering too often. This constantly keeps the bottom of the container wet. Roots are not designed to stay submerged and after a time they will protect themselves by putting a protective coating on, waiting for the flood to subside. During this time you will notice a downturn in activity, a lack of transpiration (the droop) and if not corrected, they will start to die.

These weeds do not like to be constantly wet. They thrive in adversity. They want to dry out, all the way to the bottom between waterings. When this happens, instead of being in a protective mode, the roots thrive, expand and seek out more water. Happy roots mean a happy plant, and when the roots are happy, the leaves will be happy and pointing up to the light, instead of the ground.

The best way to accomplish this is called the lift method. Lift up your container. Lift up a similar container filled with dry soil. Do not water again until your container feels like the test one. As you get closer and closer to that point, the leaves will pick up.

When you do water again, do it completely. Do it slowly and attempt to get the soil to soak up the very most that it can hold. Measure that amount. It should steadily increase as your roots grow and anytime it slows down, you know the plant is reacting to something. After completely saturating the soil, do not water again until the plant uses up every bit of the water and the container is again light as a feather. Do this 3 times and I guarantee you that your plants will look night and day different than they do today.
---Sense Emilya

Thank you Emilya for the fast response!! I think you are right! I use that technic for my 3 plant in pre flower but never did it that way for her... I tough she was to small to soak the entire pot. The other 3 can take 4L of water to get a little bit of runoff, thats what they get every time they are bone dry! and like you said as soon as I water them about a hour after they were praying to the light!! gonna let her dry a day or two and will see!

 

[Emilya Green]

That is why we successively uppot, so we can water correctly and then wait for them to use the water. My general rule is it is time to uppot when a plant can use the water (completely soaked) in 24 hours.... but then i just go up to the next size so I can repeat this process. The goal isnt to get them into a large container fast, the goal is to build up a massive rootball in each sized container as you move up, and the only way to make that happen is to starve the roots for water and make them go searching for it.

 

[Tipistroy]

That is why we successively uppot, so we can water correctly and then wait for them to use the water. My general rule is it is time to uppot when a plant can use the water (completely soaked) in 24 hours.... but then i just go up to the next size so I can repeat this process. The goal isnt to get them into a large container fast, the goal is to build up a massive rootball in each sized container as you move up, and the only way to make that happen is to starve the roots for water and make them go searching for it.

It sure sounds the right way to do it!! These are all autoflower in my tent just so you know!! thats why she grow in a 3gal pot from day one!! I been told to do that when I first start but I dont anymore. All my new seedling start in a propagation tray now then once the first true leaves are growing I transplant them. So far I only water every 3-4 days before they are really dry!

 

[Emilya Green]

yep, autos change the whole thing... thats the problem with hard set rules. So much more important to follow proper watering techniques with an auto in a big container because of that, and actually you had almost figured it out. A small young plant sitting in a massive 3 gallon container cant deal with a container 3/4 full of water very well. You instinctively gave it smaller amounts of water down the middle and around it, knowing that is what it needed.
Well, since then the roots have developed a bit. This is a deep rooter, so the first job of that little plant was to find the bottom of the container by sending its tap root down. Use the circumference of the plant as a guide you should water to 3x the circle that the plant makes in the container and just water inside that circle. As that circle reaches the outside edges of the container, begin watering the entire container to saturation. This method works in any container, even a solo cup with a brand new seedling.
So now your plants need the whole container and you are going for saturation... but just a pat on the back that your instincts were not totally wrong... but nothing stays the same during this 3 - 4 month grow. Even the watering method I have been describing to you will change when you get into flowering mode.

 

[Tipistroy]

yep, autos change the whole thing... thats the problem with hard set rules. So much more important to follow proper watering techniques with an auto in a big container because of that, and actually you had almost figured it out. A small young plant sitting in a massive 3 gallon container cant deal with a container 3/4 full of water very well. You instinctively gave it smaller amounts of water down the middle and around it, knowing that is what it needed.
Well, since then the roots have developed a bit. This is a deep rooter, so the first job of that little plant was to find the bottom of the container by sending its tap root down. Use the circumference of the plant as a guide... and water to 3x the circle that the plant makes in the container and just water inside that circle. As the leaves reach the outside edges of the container, begin watering the entire container to saturation. This method works in any container, even a solo cup with a brand new seedling.
So now your plants need the whole container and you are going for saturation... but just a pat on the back that your instincts were not totally wrong... but nothing stays the same during this 3 - 4 month grow. Even the watering method I have been describing to you will change when you get into flowering mode.

Thank again!! Can you explain me what will be the difference once in flowering mode please? because I'm in pre-flowering with my 3 Jack herer auto.

 

[AngryBird]

There you go tipi she knows what she talks about.. That is why I called her in, instead of giving you proper water link which you can read now The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant
Thank you Emilya

 

[Tipistroy]

There you go tipi she knows what she talks about.. That is why I called her in, instead of giving you proper water link
Thank you Emilya

Really appreciated!!! You always there when I need help!

 

[AngryBird]

The Proper Way To Water A Potted Plant
Read up now that crisis is over

 

[Emilya Green]

Its in the writeup, but essentially in flower the goal becomes to feed as much water and in a synthetic grow, nutrients, as the plant can take. It is no longer necessary to tease out the roots to extend out, that job was done in veg. Now it is your focus to get those roots to take up the most water that they can and instead of totally drying out as you would a vegging plant, mostly drying out is acceptable. You should be able to set up a regular 2-3 day schedule where the plants will accept roughly the same amount of water each time. With good roots you should be able to get about a gallon of water each time into the 3 gallon container if you water slowly and let the plant uptake some as you are doing it.

 

[Tipistroy]

Appreciated Emilya!! will consider that and Will follow your watering guide!! I just read your watering thread! really good point there!
will keep you in touch with any progress!
thank again!

 

[Emilya Green]

Glad to help... shout out anytime you need an answer. If I am not here, there are many others just as qualified.

 

[nivek]

Great commitment birdie and em,,

CCheers for it

JJust wanted to point out, to em more than anyone,, not even attempting to change your thinking,, but am going to point out something I read recently that changed my thinking a bit

IIt is about water starving ones plants when in flower

AAccording to the university of somewhere big, in Canada,, i forget the exact one, but a full on major uni,,

TThe research they did, which has been ongoing for years, just never talked about, for obvious reasons,, pot was illegal

TThey state the benefit of water depriving ones plants in flower, they proved that trichomes improved with water deprivation during flowering

JJust a point, and noting that I have changed my watering habits just a bit to reflect that info

CCheers friends

 

[Emilya Green]

Great commitment birdie and em,,

CCheers for it

JJust wanted to point out, to em more than anyone,, not even attempting to change your thinking,, but am going to point out something I read recently that changed my thinking a bit

IIt is about water starving ones plants when in flower

AAccording to the university of somewhere big, in Canada,, i forget the exact one, but a full on major uni,,

TThe research they did, which has been ongoing for years, just never talked about, for obvious reasons,, pot was illegal

TThey state the benefit of water depriving ones plants in flower, they proved that trichomes improved with water deprivation during flowering

JJust a point, and noting that I have changed my watering habits just a bit to reflect that info

CCheers friends

Very interesting and I would like to see that study. I would be very interested in quality vs quantity comparisons in this experiment. Also, I do see value in letting them dry out at the very end and even a 36 hour dark period before harvest, just to convince the plant that this is the end and time to throw it all into the buds... so I would like to see a grow done in this way compared to that test case too. As you know from being around a while, there are many ways to skin a cat.

 

[nivek]

i so wish i could reference that article and show it,, however, even two days after reading it, i tried to find it and could not

just a note,, the article was about growing pot indoors being not as easy as one might think,, article stated five simple points

three obvious ones, like, the need to change lighting sequences, 12/12 vs 16/8 or whatever

two other obvious ones i forget
and the one mentioned before about watering in flower

and one more interesting one,, tho one hears it a lot, it is hard to self control sometimes,, that while plants are in flower, they require nearly not a single drop of fertilzer,, that is a tuf one to stick to,, not zero perhaps, but very near zero

just the facts maam, is all

cheers