Yellowing bottom leaves in veg

[kikikopa]

Greetings members,

I wanted to post this now and will add some pictures later today.

I have two strains - Acid Dough and Tutankhamen - that are having an issue with the lower leaves yellowing and dying off. They are now in 3 and 5 gallon smart pots after having been transplanted twice from smaller pots. They are in organic soil and are being grown outdoors. I've followed Emilya's guidance on transplanting so the soils were soaked first before being transplanted and I'm still waiting for the bottoms to dry out while spraying the top centers to keep the original soil from drying out. They are in direct sunlight and the temperatures have been in the low to mid 90's during the day.

In addition to the yellowing of the lower leaves, I'm also not getting the growth that I am expecting since the transplant to final pots. At least not the same as when I transplanted from the solo cups to the 1 gallon pots where I could see an immediate growth spurt.

I'm interested in learning what is causing this yellowing/dying off so I can correct the problem ASAP. Any help on what to check will be most appreciated. I will post pictures hopefully later today. Thanks.

 

[Bill284]

Greetings members,

I wanted to post this now and will add some pictures later today.

I have two strains - Acid Dough and Tutankhamen - that are having an issue with the lower leaves yellowing and dying off. They are now in 3 and 5 gallon smart pots after having been transplanted twice from smaller pots. They are in organic soil and are being grown outdoors. I've followed Emilya's guidance on transplanting so the soils were soaked first before being transplanted and I'm still waiting for the bottoms to dry out while spraying the top centers to keep the original soil from drying out. They are in direct sunlight and the temperatures have been in the low to mid 90's during the day.

In addition to the yellowing of the lower leaves, I'm also not getting the growth that I am expecting since the transplant to final pots. At least not the same as when I transplanted from the solo cups to the 1 gallon pots where I could see an immediate growth spurt.

I'm interested in learning what is causing this yellowing/dying off so I can correct the problem ASAP. Any help on what to check will be most appreciated. I will post pictures hopefully later today. Thanks.

Good morning @kikikopa hope you are well my friend.
Sorry about your lady.
Have you been giving any nutrients or just relying on what's in the soil?

Stay safe
Bill

 

[bobrown14]

Lower leaves are a sign of lack of calcium. Could be lockout from pH out of tolerance from you water source - pH test your water?? What is the result?

What's your water source - well or tap/public water.

What is your calcium source in your soil mix?

To transplant all you need to do is add soil to a new pot about 1/3 of the container - remove the root ball from old container add root ball (undisturbed) to new pot.
Fill in around the root ball with new soil. Tamp it down lightly around the root ball add more soil if needed. Water in like you normally would do.

 

[kikikopa]

Good morning @kikikopa hope you are well my friend.
Sorry about your lady.
Have you been giving any nutrients or just relying on what's in the soil?

Stay safe
Bill

Hi Bill. Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I am relying on what is in the substrate that I blended and I've not added any nutrients.

The substrate is a mix of worm castings, coco coir, top soil, two types of bat guano, volcano dust, and coffee grounds. I had good results with this mix last year so I'm not sure what's happening now.

 

[kikikopa]

Lower leaves are a sign of lack of calcium. Could be lockout from pH out of tolerance from you water source - pH test your water?? What is the result?

What's your water source - well or tap/public water.

What is your calcium source in your soil mix?

To transplant all you need to do is add soil to a new pot about 1/3 of the container - remove the root ball from old container add root ball (undisturbed) to new pot.
Fill in around the root ball with new soil. Tamp it down lightly around the root ball add more soil if needed. Water in like you normally would do.

Hi bobrown14,

Thanks for the quick reply.

My water source is filtered public tap water. I have no direct calcium additives aside from what is in the mix that I described above. The transplant went pretty much as your described. The PH of the water is ~ 6.8 but it is my understanding that PH is only needed when using chemical nutrients.

 

[Bill284]

Hi Bill. Thanks for the quick reply.

Yes, I am relying on what is in the substrate that I blended and I've not added any nutrients.

The substrate is a mix of worm castings, coco coir, top soil, two types of bat guano, volcano dust, and coffee grounds. I had good results with this mix last year so I'm not sure what's happening now.

It might help if we could see what is going on.
But in the meantime do you have any calmag you could add to you water?

Stay safe
Bill

 

[bobrown14]

How are you filtering water?

Reason I'm asking is chlorine needs a specific filter to remove it. Chlorine will kill microbes in the soil you need to feed the plant.

Your calcium source in your soil mix - what exactly did you add to your soil as a Ca amendment?

 

[kikikopa]

It might help if we could see what is going on.
But in the meantime do you have any calmag you could add to you water?

Stay safe
Bill

Yes, I will post pictures as soon as my camera is available sometime later today.

I don't have any calmag on hand but can try and find some if that is what I need. I saw a post from Emilya on using egg shells to make a batch so maybe I can get started on that.

Do you think it's possible that a lack of calcium can also be contributing to the relatively slow growth? Any chance this could be a heat related issue?

 

[bobrown14]

Yes Calcium is associated with growth.

You don't need cal/mag there are way better sources of Ca you dont need any Mg its already in your soil. You didn't add any Ca amendments to your soil so you're likely lacking it calcium that's the yellowing and slow growth.

You can make some kelp meal tea - soak a 1/4 cup in a quart of water and let it rehydrate can add another 1/4 cup of worm castings.

Let that sit for a few hours give it a shake and pour that whole quart and all the stuff into a gallon of water - water in let the dredges pour onto the soil. That will take a few weeks your plants should come back around.

Look for some fish hydrolysate and use that 1x a week - add to you water and water in follow the label for dilution - these 2 steps will get you to you final destination = harvest.

You should start looking for a good soil recipe for your next round.

 

[kikikopa]

How are you filtering water?

Reason I'm asking is chlorine needs a specific filter to remove it. Chlorine will kill microbes in the soil you need to feed the plant.

Your calcium source in your soil mix - what exactly did you add to your soil as a Ca amendment?

I have a 12 stage water filter that supposedly removes any chorine. The calcium in the soil mix comes from the two types of bat guano and the volcano dust. One of the bat guano has 30% calcium according to it's label and another has 10%. The volcano dust lists the calcium in ppm. So it appears that I have 3 sources of calcium in the soil.

 

[kikikopa]

Yes Calcium is associated with growth.

You don't need cal/mag there are way better sources of Ca you dont need any Mg its already in your soil. You didn't add any Ca amendments to your soil so you're likely lacking it calcium that's the yellowing and slow growth.

You can make some kelp meal tea - soak a 1/4 cup in a quart of water and let it rehydrate can add another 1/4 cup of worm castings.

Let that sit for a few hours give it a shake and pour that whole quart and all the stuff into a gallon of water - water in let the dredges pour onto the soil. That will take a few weeks your plants should come back around.

Look for some fish hydrolysate and use that 1x a week - add to you water and water in follow the label for dilution - these 2 steps will get you to you final destination = harvest.

You should start looking for a good soil recipe for your next round.

Thank you bobrown14.

The soil recipe that I'm using came from a long-time grower but I don't have the source since it was on a hard drive that bit the dust. I followed the recipe exactly except that I had to leave out a few ingredients that are not available where I live. And that leads me to your suggestion to use kelp meal tea. I will have to check on the availability of kelp meal but if by chance it's not available, do you have an alternative perhaps?

 

[kikikopa]

Yes Calcium is associated with growth.

You don't need cal/mag there are way better sources of Ca you dont need any Mg its already in your soil. You didn't add any Ca amendments to your soil so you're likely lacking it calcium that's the yellowing and slow growth.

You can make some kelp meal tea - soak a 1/4 cup in a quart of water and let it rehydrate can add another 1/4 cup of worm castings.

Let that sit for a few hours give it a shake and pour that whole quart and all the stuff into a gallon of water - water in let the dredges pour onto the soil. That will take a few weeks your plants should come back around.

Look for some fish hydrolysate and use that 1x a week - add to you water and water in follow the label for dilution - these 2 steps will get you to you final destination = harvest.

You should start looking for a good soil recipe for your next round.

Unfortuneatley, I don't have a source for kelp meal. I did find bone meal but it doesn't appear to be similar to kelp meal.

 

[kikikopa]

Here are a few pictures of what is happening. I hope they're enough to see the problem but I can take more if they're not. Many thanks to all the helpers!

 

[bobrown14]

Check your local feed store - can get rabbit pellets and rehydrate them - that's mostly alfalfa.

Kelp meal is pretty common around the world because oceans large land mass small kelp is everywhere.

What part of the world you living??

Soil looks way dry - can top dress with compost and/or leaf mold to retain water.

Edit - looks like a lighting issue to me. Where you growing these indoors and moved them outside recently and what was the light schedule indoors?

 

[kikikopa]

Thanks again bobrown14.

Yes, the tops do look dry but I've been spraying them in the center so the dryness is right on the surface and that is because the sun is extremely intense so it drys it out fast. I've been following Emilya's watering schedule so I'm trying to make sure the original root ball doesn't dry out.

These plants have been outside the entire time so no switchover from an indoor lighting schedule.

I'll check on the availability of the rabbit pellets which should be better than the kelp meal. Yes, I understand that kelp is commonly found everywhere but it is not available in this small South American country. Would the rabbit pellets be a substitute for kelp meal?

 

[bobrown14]

Kelp better than rabbit pellets. The rabbit pellets are mainly Alfalfa which is a high Nitrogen food but will be ok for soil - not as good as kelp meal.

Most of my amendments for my soil mix I can get at our local feed store. I live in rural New York. If you think about it, nutrition for animals comes from the plants right? So the feed store will carry most all of the nutrition for animals in FEED form. Those feeds are excellent sources of soil amendments.

Edit: the feed stores also carry minerals for animals that are the same we use to grow plants. They supplement animal nutrition with minerals the same we need for our plants.

 

[kikikopa]

Kelp better than rabbit pellets. The rabbit pellets are mainly Alfalfa which is a high Nitrogen food but will be ok for soil - not as good as kelp meal.

Most of my amendments for my soil mix I can get at our local feed store. I live in rural New York. If you think about it, nutrition for animals comes from the plants right? So the feed store will carry most all of the nutrition for animals in FEED form. Those feeds are excellent sources of soil amendments.

Edit: the feed stores also carry minerals for animals that are the same we use to grow plants. They supplement animal nutrition with minerals the same we need for our plants.

I understand, thanks. Here is a picture of a leaf that just fell off that can maybe provide more insight into the problem.

 

[kikikopa]

I'm losing lower leaves relatively quickly the last few days so I'm anxious to nip this in the bud. I'm thinking there might be multiple factors in play here. The last few days it's been very hot and also very windy which forced the ladies into the greenhouse that even when covered in shade cloth hovered around 100 degrees. Aside from that, one of the plants started showing lighter color in the newest growth which I assumed was a sign that it needed to be uppotted and it was within a few days of that happening.

The leaf in the picture above this post is typical of what I'm seeing now. Brown at the tips and yellowed throughout and eventually dropping off. If I was using chemical nutes, I would think it was nute burn so maybe it's too much organic at one time from the recent uppot in combination with the extremely hot weather perhaps causing some type of nutrient lockout?

Please point me in the right direction if this is not the best thread to get some different thoughts on what it might be. I've got two months invested in these ladies and to lose them at this point would technically be termed a disaster.

All inputs welcome!

 

[Bill284]

I'm losing lower leaves relatively quickly the last few days so I'm anxious to nip this in the bud. I'm thinking there might be multiple factors in play here. The last few days it's been very hot and also very windy which forced the ladies into the greenhouse that even when covered in shade cloth hovered around 100 degrees. Aside from that, one of the plants started showing lighter color in the newest growth which I assumed was a sign that it needed to be uppotted and it was within a few days of that happening.

The leaf in the picture above this post is typical of what I'm seeing now. Brown at the tips and yellowed throughout and eventually dropping off. If I was using chemical nutes, I would think it was nute burn so maybe it's too much organic at one time from the recent uppot in combination with the extremely hot weather perhaps causing some type of nutrient lockout?

Please point me in the right direction if this is not the best thread to get some different thoughts on what it might be. I've got two months invested in these ladies and to lose them at this point would technically be termed a disaster.

All inputs welcome!

Hold on a second.

Stay safe
Bill

 

[Bill284]

Hello @kikikoi apologize for not getting back sooner.
So your soil has some nutrients but she isn't getting everything she needs.
I would try adding @GeoFlora Nutrients to her.
It has microbes that help feed your lady.
That should keep her going until she gets a big enough root ball into that soil.
And can uptake what is available in it.
Oh Mr @Rexer Are you available to have a look here, I'm not having the best day here at the moment.
I'm trying to paint the bathroom, hehe nothing bad.

Stay safe
Bill