14/12 Photoperiod and Other Non-24 Hour Options?

[TorturedSoul]

Well... You could run a 60-watt incandescent light bulb off of the timer and install it an inch below your HVAC thermostat - that'd be VERY likely to ensure that it is actively cooling at all times that your GR lights are on. But I can already see "one or two" drawbacks to such an idea, lol.

Moving the thermostat into the GR would do the same thing.

Someone in better mental shape than me could probably tell you how to rig up a relay driven from that timer which would cause the sensor in the thermostat to read a few degrees warmer.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Well... You could run a 60-watt incandescent light bulb off of the timer and install it an inch below your HVAC thermostat - that'd be VERY likely to ensure that it is actively cooling at all times that your GR lights are on. But I can already see "one or two" drawbacks to such an idea, lol.

Moving the thermostat into the GR would do the same thing.

Someone in better mental shape than me could probably tell you how to rig up a relay driven from that timer which would cause the sensor in the thermostat to read a few degrees warmer.

Interesting idea TS. Not really practical for our situation here based on where the whole house thermostat is located. I could leave the door to the Bloom Room opened to keep things cooler and the heat that whafts out of that room could very well influence the AC thermo by heating up the back hallway and drifting up to where the Thermostat is mounted.

Like I said... Just going to have to see how much of an additional hassle this whole experiment is. If I see marked results above the normal 12/12, I am willing to deal with some incovieniences.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Interesting idea TS.

Bound to get some odd looks, though.

I could leave the door to the Bloom Room opened to keep things cooler and the heat that whafts out of that room could very well influence the AC thermo by heating up the back hallway and drifting up to where the Thermostat is mounted.

That coupled with strategic placement of a few fans - and, of course, proper ventilation of the lights/GR - might well be enough to do it.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Bound to get some odd looks, though.



That coupled with strategic placement of a few fans - and, of course, proper ventilation of the lights/GR - might well be enough to do it.

So far, the heat from the lights during overnight hours has not been a problem. We just keep the door open to the Bloom Room and close it when the lights go off.

As far as the 14/12 project...

So far everything is working fine with the timer, although it occasionally delays the ON time by a minute which we are trying to get an explanation on from PlugNGrow. The Blueberry plant's leaves have started to yellow and curl in some sections along with some dark spots which could indicate a problem with the soil or an effect of the extended light period, we are not sure yet. The plants were flushed with PH balanced water earlier this morning, so we shall see if that helps.

The flowers on these same two plants are looking great with increasing Trichome coverage and swelling!

Lights ON today begins at 2PM, so I will be posting a few photos of the leaf yellowing then. Stay tuned!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Might want to make sure that when your timer occasionally "delays the on time by a minute," it's not actually activating at the correct time but not allowing sufficient voltage (or amperage) through to properly fire your lights for that minute. If that's the case, it's probably hard on ballasts (and possibly bulbs).

 

[Goldengoose7]

Might want to make sure that when your timer occasionally "delays the on time by a minute," it's not actually activating at the correct time but not allowing sufficient voltage (or amperage) through to properly fire your lights for that minute. If that's the case, it's probably hard on ballasts (and possibly bulbs).

Hmmmm...I hadn't thought of that! Good point!

The iGS-25 wall component is rated at 15 AMPs and my combined lighting fixtures in that room are far below that, so if it is doing what you say, then that sounds like a defective iGS-25 doesn't it?

I have been in the room when this delay happens and I hear NO SOUND from the 25 when the iGS-15 goes into this DELAY mode on the display. Other days, the lights come on immediately, right at the end of the countdown.

The company that makes this product is up in Quebec Canada and in addition to the language barrier, they appear to be on company wide vacation right now since they have yet to get back to me on this issue. They normally respond within 24 hours. Its been four days.

 

[TorturedSoul]

The iGS-25 wall component is rated at 15 AMPs and my combined lighting fixtures in that room are far below that, so if it is doing what you say, then that sounds like a defective iGS-25 doesn't it?

Even at start-up?

If it is doing it (and you are not drawing too much voltage even initially) then it would seem defective. But of course it may not be doing so, it was just a thought.

I have been in the room when this delay happens and I hear NO SOUND from the 25 when the iGS-15 goes into this DELAY mode on the display.

Does it make a sound when it actually kicks on? A click like a mechanical relay makes or something?

Wait... "DELAY mode on the display?" It actually is aware of what is happening and gives you visual feedback? That would seem to mark my previous hypothesis (prior message) off the list.

Any chance it could be a programmer, err... I mean programming error? Is there any pattern to these DELAY sequences that might make them seem directed by the schedule?

Perhaps there is a cold-reset function and activating it & reprogramming the device might stop this behavior?

Good luck. Still seems like a nice piece of kit.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Thanks for the suggestions TS!

I ran the timer through a series of simulated on and offs yesterday in order to video the results. The DELAY state happened about 60% of the time. The other 40% it came right on. And yes, it does make an audible "CLICK" when the lights come on, but total silence when the DELAY appears on the iGS-15 display instead of the lights coming on. Based on the CLICK, there is definitely a mechanical relay in the iGS-25.

I already tried a cold reset without any change. I have sent those videos to the company and am now just waiting for a response from their tech guys. Until then, the system is still working, but I feel the need to always keep an eye on it in case that DELAY state one day DOES NOT only last a minute!

I really like the system, so I hope that whatever this is can be either explained or sorted out with a firmware upgrade or something. This thing can be flashed with a computer. It has a USB port on it in addition to four CAT-5 ports!

I'll keep you posted on all this here, and stay tuned for some photos of the Blueberry plants and their strange leaf yellowing issue. I really need a Blueberry expert to check out those photos and give me some input.

Back in a bit!

 

[Goldengoose7]

14/12 Session Terminated Due to Defective Timer

I regret to report that today at 2PM the iGS-15 failed to turn the lights on and instead displayed the word "DELAY" on the display. This has been happening on and off since we started using this timer, but today instead of coming on a minute or two late, an entire 30 minutes went by and still nothing! :icon_roll

Needless to say, I removed the system from my grow room immediately and have replaced it with my old reliable Intermatic. Until I hear back from PlugNGrow as to why this device is doing this and how they plan to remedy it, this little experiment is officially over!

P.S. In order to get the plants back onto their previous 12/12 with the ON cycle during daylight, I am forced to deny them their light today. They will have to wait until tomorrow morning at 6AM. I don't expect this will make too big of a problem for them. Might force the Purple Urkle clone in there to start doing something!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Shame. I was hoping this experiment would finish. I glanced through the manual and it looked cool.

There's no chance the timer is still in demo mode is there? It looks like the user would have had to turn a button at startup (or after a reset) and select an option to keep it in demo, but I am not positive.

I got the impression that the DELAY is only supposed to happen at startup after a power failure. It's probably so that if one occurs during lights-on you can have a pre-programmed delay to avoid hot-restrikes.

I also got the impression that the DELAY may be manually set from 0-30 minutes. And that it should hold the same value after it is set.

Have you tried setting the DELAY variable to 0?

Have you tried running it in the "Other" mode instead of "Lighting?" It looks like the options/functions would be the same - with the exception that there is no DELAY option in the "Other" mode.

Have you entered the last five digits of the serial number in order to activate the warranty and to take the unit out of Demo mode? It seems that the unit is programmed to not offer full functionality until the user does so.

If you have Windows Live Messenger or one of the various programs that can interface with its chat network, you might add info@igrowing.ca to your contacts and try chatting with one of their technical support people. According to the website, they are available seven days a week 8am-9pm Eastern time.

I was not able to ascertain whether or not there is currently a firmware upgrade for the unit.

 

[Goldengoose7]

I'm pleased that you read up on this thing! It would be a pretty cool device if it worked!

I don't understand what it is with this company's products! They must be VERY SMALL! The 11L couldn't get close to the correct on and off times so they discontinue it, then they bring out the iGS-15 and it can count the cycles perfectly, but can't manage to turn on the same collection of T5 and CFL lights that any $25.00 timer can without breaking a sweat! :icon_roll

I did enter the serial number during installation and it logged the date where the three year warranty is supposed to start. I have tried the timer with the delay set to 00:00:00 as well as 00:01:00 and the delay behavior is the same either way.

I have emailed the company several times already and sent them videos of the iGS-15 counting down and failing to turn the lights on. I also captured one of the less common occurances when the device actually turns the lights on at the end of the count down!

So far, I haven't heard from anyone up there. It will be a full 7 days on Monday night since I first noticed this behavior while testing the timer and emailed them for an explanation when none was provided in the manual. If you pull out the power cord and plug it back in the display shows the word "OUTAGE" and a red light comes on. That is not happening during these DELAY situations. There is no error report, number or anything. That is the most frustrating part of this whole issue

 

[TorturedSoul]

The 11L couldn't get close to the correct on and off times so they discontinue it

That seems only proper. Especially since I'm under the impression that the 11L's firmware cannot be upgraded by the user.

then they bring out the iGS-15 and it can count the cycles perfectly, but can't manage to turn on a couple of thousand watts worth of lights

Uhh... You DID mention earlier in this thread that it's only a 15-amp timer. I was under the impression by both the manual and the pictures you posted that this was a 120v device. Was I mistaken?

If not... 15 amps @ 120v is only 1800 watts MAX. Since most people's line-voltage varies a bit through the course of the day, I would not expect it to run with no issues at 1800 watts load. Last time I spot-checked an outlet to see if it was live I saw 111v (at 15 amps, that's only 1665 watts). And depending on your ballasts/etc., startup draw will be higher. Expect to see much higher on C&C magnetic ballasts (it varies, of course, due to initial component quality and age/condition). Electric motors will also draw more at startup. Not sure if an electronic ballast draws more at startup or not. I am sure that if you have poor-quality poorly shielded ones that they can and do muck up nearby electronics, electronics that are plugged into the same circuit, and electronics that they are plugged into.

Might be that you're just overloading the timer, enough to cause a mandatory DELAY function but not enough to trip its breaker / blow its fuse (if it has one, if not I expect it's doing the best it can to not melt, lol).

 

[TorturedSoul]

BtW, have you checked your SPAM filter for emails from them?

When a company offers you live tech support through both a toll-free number (anywhere in North America) AND a live computer chat option... Why restrict yourself to email? At the very least, it would make the usual scripted customer support (if they use such a ghastly thing) more bearable. I shudder at the thought of you having to deal with an entire series of emails that go... You should try this... Oh, you did? Ok, try this... Tried that one too? Ok, try this... No affect? Ok, try this...

Either way, I hope you get it fixed.

I did not see mention in your replies of whether or not you tried running the timer in the "Other" mode (as opposed to the "Light" one, which has the DELAY function).

EDIT: Keep us informed, please. I'm out of ideas.

 

[Goldengoose7]

I'll keep you posted on what happens! I think i may have over estimated the total wattage of my lights in there. I'm pretty sure that it is under 1800 watts. Likely closer to 1000 watts total or less. The Intermatic timer has never balked once running this same array, and it does have a protection circuit in it that would prevent an overload. Its never tripped.

I never got around to testing with the OTHER mode. One it appeared to be an unreliable device, I yanked it out! I plan to bring it out onto my bench and run it with a single bulb to see if the same DELAY issue comes up. If it does, then we know it isn't the amount of juice needed.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with a faulty iGS-25 wall power unit.

UPDATE:

I just set up the IGS-15 and iGS-25 on my test bench using a 15 watt Christmas light plugged into the #1 socket of the iGS-25. The unit still fails to turn the light on reliably and failed with the DELAY state FIVE out of SIX test runs. The OTHER setting option had the same problem.

At this point, I am pretty sure that the issue lies with the iGS-25 not responding properly to the ON command from the iGS-15.

 

[TorturedSoul]

You're probably right. My thinking was that if it'll run in the "Other" mode without DELAY (and it should, whether the setting is active in "Light" mode or not) then you could continue your grow experiment until you call or chat with tech support. Might be that they are aware of the issue and that it can be fixed with a simple f/w upgrade. (Hope so.)

Anyway, best of luck with the thing.

 

[Goldengoose7]

You're probably right. My thinking was that if it'll run in the "Other" mode without DELAY (and it should, whether the setting is active in "Light" mode or not) then you could continue your grow experiment until you call or chat with tech support. Might be that they are aware of the issue and that it can be fixed with a simple f/w upgrade. (Hope so.)

Anyway, best of luck with the thing.

Thanks!

I think we're done for this flowering session, but if I can get all this fixed before my next session towards the end of August, then I will revive the 14/12 experiment with a new set of test subjects in the Bloom Room!

 

[Goldengoose7]

Good News from PlugNGrow!

I just received a very encouraging email from the CEO of the parent company of PnG regarding my defective iGS-15 timer system. They are sending me a complete replacement system free of charge! The defective system can either be kept for parts or thrown away at my discretion.

Before the replacement is sent, they are going to have their lead tech go through the device and thoroughly test it for proper operation before they send it to me. The CEO assured me that the defect rate of this product and all other PnG advanced Hydro automation systems is less than 1% overall, which IS impressive.

I have always had the knack for picking out a defective product out of a pile of boxes, so this incident is nothing new to me as those who have read my Grow Journal can attest with other mechanical devices of late!

At least so far, I have been lucky in that the company's that make these products have always stepped up and more than compensated me for the problems, and their replacements have always worked great ever since!

So... Looks like our 14/12 experiment will soon be coming back online as soon as the replacement arrives. Still no word on an ETA yet. I would LOVE to start up a 14/12 on the current BBK, GDP around week 6 - 7 but this may have to wait until the next batch of plants go into the flowering room.

Thats all I've got for now, but I wanted to share this great news with everyone as soon as I received it!

 

[Goldengoose7]

Timer Replacement Update

The latest news from PnG is that my new fully bench tested iGS-15 system will ship out tomorrow. I should have it delivered here by the end of next week if all goes according to plan.

That will mean an arrival around week #6 of the Blueberry Kush flowering cycle. I plan to test the new system for several days on my own bench before committing it to the Bloom Room. Based on that, it is looking like we will be able to use the 14/12 or possibly 14/13 on these plants for their Week 7 through Week 8. I usually harvest on Week 8, but I may let these go a bit longer depending on how they look.

Stay tuned!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Good deal!

BtW, have you informed them the wattage and type(s) of the lights that you are using? Probably a non-issue when dealing with smaller loads, but you (well... I, lol) never know.

 

[Goldengoose7]

Good deal!

BtW, have you informed them the wattage and type(s) of the lights that you are using? Probably a non-issue when dealing with smaller loads, but you (well... I, lol) never know.

The replacement is on its way! Looking like the end of the week for delivery as we figured.

I actually told them that the defective system wasn't working even with a 15 watt night light as the only light source connected.