Basic HID Guidelines - by Green007

Green007

New Member
Keep in mind these are BASIC GUIDELINES that I have collected reading 420. Enjoy!

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Lumens At Height:
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A 1000w HPS will put out ~140,000 lumens at 1' away
A 1000w HPS will put out ~35,000 lumens at 2' away
A 1000w HPS will put out ~15,555 lumens at 3' away

600W (150 lumens per watt):
1' away: 90,000 Lumens
2' away: 22,500 Lumens
3' away: 9,999 Lumens
4' away: 6,428 Lumens

400W (125 lumens per watt):
1' away: 50,000 Lumens
2' away: 12,500 Lumens
3' away: 5,555 Lumens
4' away: 3,571 Lumens

We are advised to keep:

1000w HPS; ~3' above the tops, at 3' the 1000w put out 15,555 lumens.

600w HPS; ~2' above the tops, at 2' the 600w put out 22,500 lumens.

400w HPS; ~1' above the tops, at 1' the 400w put out 50,000 lumens.


A 1000w hps puts out approx. 140,000 lumens at 1', but this falls off to 15,555 lumens at 3'.

A 400w hps puts out approx. 51,000 lumens at 1'.

So, placing a 400w 1' above the plant will put out more than 3 times the lumens that a 1000w will at 3'.

However the 400w can't cover the area the 1000w can.

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Determining Lumens For Your Grow Area:
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We are advised to have a minimum of 3000 lumens per sqft. The sun gives off 10,000 lumens per sqft on a bright hot sunny day. We are advised to have 3000L to 7000L per sqft.

First determine the square footage of your area.
Example in a 4 foot by 4 foot area, there is 16 square feet, 2 x 2 feet is 4 Sq ft.

Divide the total amount of Lumens, by the total amount of square feet, and that's your lumens per square foot.
Example a 1000 Watt High Pressure Sodium Light Bulb produces approx 140,000 lumens. Divide this by 16 (your square footage) and 140,000 / 16 = 8750 lumens per square foot.

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Venting:
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There are a lot of variables when it comes to venting. How much CFM to use to cool lights, exchange air, static pressure, flow restriction for ducting and filters, ect.

These are some BASIC concepts to help you on your way.

The rule of thumb is to exchange the air (or more importantly the CO2) in your grow area every 5 minutes. When dealing with added Heat, that changes to every 1-2 minutes. (basic guideline)

Fans are rated at Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM), or how much air can they move in 1 minute.

You need to calculate the cubic feet of your grow room. Length x Width x Height = Cubic Feet.
Example: 4' x 4' x 7' = 112cft

To exchange the air every 5 minutes you would need
112cft / 5min = 23CFM

To exchange the air every 1 minute you would need 112CFM
To exchange the air every 2 minutes you would need 56CFM

Here is where you need to start calculating duct and filter restrictions, how much air is needed to cool your light, static pressure, ect.

A starting point would be a 6" 400CFM vent fan for a 400W or 600W HID. And of course this will VERY GREATLY on your setup and circumstances.

It is important to remember that a good rule of thumb is to have matching intake to exhaust, whether passive or not.
(this is where static pressure comes in and I stop)

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How Much $$ To Run My Light:
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Here is an explanation to help you figure out your own usage...
I found the formula... this assumes $0.12 per KW hour price.
(If you pay a different amount change the formula below)
Explanation: Watts used by device x hours used over the course of a month = total watt hours
Example: 400 watts x 24 hours a day x 30.5 days a month = 292,800 Wh

Explanation: Now you have to convert Wh (watt hours) to kWh (kilowatt hours). Wh / 1000 = kWh
Example: 292,800 Wh / 1000 Wh = 293 kWh
Explanation: Now take you kWH and multiply it by the price you pay your electric provider
Example: 293 kWh x 12¢/kWh = $35.16 a mo. or $422 a yr.

When you buy electricity they charge you by the kilowatt-hour (kWh). When you use 1000 watts for 1 hour, that's a kilowatt-hour.

Device wattage Time used kWh Cost
HPS 400 watts 1 hour .4kWh $.05
HPS 400 watts 24 hours 9.6kWh $1.15
HPS 400 watts 365 hours 146kWh $17.52 12/12 for a month
HPS 400 watts 730 hours 293kWh $35.16 24x7 for a month
HPS 1000 watts 1 hour 1kWh $.12
HPS 1000 watts 24 hours 24kWh $2.88
HPS 1000 watts 365 hours 365kWh $43.80 12/12 for a month
HPS 1000 watts 730 hours 730kWh $87.60 24x7 for a month
small oscillating fan 8 watts 1 hour 0.008kWh $.00096
small oscillating fan 8 watts 24 hours 0.192kWh $.02
small oscillating fan 8 watts 730 hours 0.008kWh $.70
6" Ecoplus inline fan 135 watts 1 hour 0.135kWh $.0162
6" Ecoplus inline fan 135 watts 24 hours 3.24kWh $.39
6" Ecoplus inline fan 135 watts 730 hours 98.55kWh $11.83

other examples for various items and hours used below...
medium window-unit AC 1000 watts 1 hour 1kWh $.12
large window-unit AC 1500 watts 1 hour 1.5kWh $.18
42" ceiling fan on low 24 watts 10 hours 0.24kWh $.03
light bulb 100 watts 730 hours 73kWh $8.76
CFL light bulb 25 watts 730 hours 18kWh $2.16

Understand that a HPS may use a little more due to ballast, age of ballast and light, and small amount for a timer unit.

So with a 400 watt HPS going 12/12, an oscillating fan, and a 6" inline fan, the total cost for the month would be approx $30.05. (at $0.12 per kW per hour — Check your electric bill for your rate.)
 
Dude! You left out my babies! I know they're not popular in the US but no mention at all? Come On Man!
Just kidding Bro!:) But here it is..., the 430 watt Son Agro HPS. Two bulbs are available. There's a standard Phillips 430 and my weapon of choice... The Eye Hortilux 430 watt Super HPS packing 58,000 lumens at 12". I run two of these haymakers + some LED for bloom

:ganjamon:
 
:rofl: Thanks Bandit! I appreciate the add, you ROCK! :theband:

There are a lot of different bulbs on the market now, increased lumens, advanced blue spectrum, ect. I think the subject could be it's own thread. I just wanted to layout some basics.

Speaking of which, you sir are an excellent candidate for doing an advanced write up on HIDs with LEDs as a supplement. I've learned a lot from you, as have others.

Call up Snowball, it's time for a CONVOY! :)
 
Very nice writeup Green007!! :nicethread:


I wanna add my setup for anyone who is considering HPS. I run my 600W at 18" with no problem, using a Vortex 440 cfm fan with speed controller. I use a Cool Tube and a Sunmaster bulb with 95,000 lumens. I highly recommend the Nextgen digital ballast. It automatically switches from
400/600W and HPS to MH. It's really nice if you want to run a 400W MH for veg then switch to a 600W HPS for flower.


Pics from first installation.
Bubble2_806.jpg


I keep my fan sitting on a blanket. This keeps the vibration and noises to a minimum. Good for closet growing.
Bubble2_787.jpg


I remember this day! Graduation day from CFL to HPS!!
Bubble2_778.jpg


And now..
Canon_232.jpg



Nexgen ballast runs really cool!
Canon_124.jpg


 
:rofl: Thanks Bandit! I appreciate the add, you ROCK! :theband:

There are a lot of different bulbs on the market now, increased lumens, advanced blue spectrum, ect. I think the subject could be it's own thread. I just wanted to layout some basics.

Speaking of which, you sir are an excellent candidate for doing an advanced write up on HIDs with LEDs as a supplement. I've learned a lot from you, as have others.

Call up Snowball, it's time for a CONVOY! :)

LOL! I can sum up led + hps right now and very easy!
It's produced the best pot I've ever smoked. If somebody wanted to take either one from me we would have to fight.:grinjoint:
 
Great setup Theanswer! Same ballast and fan that I have. ;)

I really hope this thread will help a lot of the new people who don't know how to get started. I hope others post pics of there setup too.

You too El Bandito!

What speed control is that?
 
Great setup Theanswer! Same ballast and fan that I have. ;)

I really hope this thread will help a lot of the new people who don't know how to get started. I hope others post pics of there setup too.

You too El Bandito!

What speed control is that?

It is the Speedster Variable Fan Speed Controller. RVF Garden supply, one of the sponsor's here carries it( I think I only paid $15 for it though).
THESPEEDSTER.jpg


736617 - The Speedster Variable Fan Speed Control
 
great write up, ty. for my next grow I will be running 2 400 watt ceramic metal halides with either 3 or 6 2700k t5's. should really brighten up things
 
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I'll make a contribution as well. Here's my 430 agro sun red with 6" vortex with cool tube. I plan on upgrading to a 600 hps for the next grow with a 4x4 tent. Hey answer how much did the sunmaster run you?? And is it really 95,000 lumens at 18 inches? I've got the same speed controller as you and never had to raise it over half way. Any pointers from anyone on the 600?
 
+rep GREAT POST thank you for taking your time to post this:)

:thanks:

great write up, ty. for my next grow I will be running 2 400 watt ceramic metal halides with either 3 or 6 2700k t5's. should really brighten up things

Sounds like a good plan!

IMG_06594.JPG


I'll make a contribution as well. Here's my 430 agro sun red with 6" vortex with cool tube. I plan on upgrading to a 600 hps for the next grow with a 4x4 tent. Hey answer how much did the sunmaster run you?? And is it really 95,000 lumens at 18 inches? I've got the same speed controller as you and never had to raise it over half way. Any pointers from anyone on the 600?

Why is your cool tube facing up???

The actual amount of lumens will depend on the particular bulb you buy. There are so many new "improved" ones available today.
 
Here's my brain child. This creation took weeks of planning and execution to finally get it the way I want and yet I still want to improve on one of the leds to take it from a 90 watt UFO to a 120 watt panel.
What you're looking at are two 430 hps lamps in Cool Tubes daisy chained to each other. They are hung with Pro Grip hangers on a 6 rpm Light Rail with a trolley attachment.
Running parellel to the 430s is a 90 watt UFO hung from a Hydrofarm chain driven light track.
Both of these light systems move East to West down the length of the garden
Crossing those two lights on the front side of the array moving North to South is another 90 watt UFO on a 10 rpm Light Rail.
This lighting system is blasting my girls with over 122,000 lumens at a distance of 12" and is well over the 50 watt per square foot threshold being very close to 80 watt per foot. And oh yeah, all those watts & lumens are moving for optimum penetration of the canopy. Enjoy!

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El Bandito - +reps!!! :goodjob:

Thankyou for posting your setup here! I saw your last harvest with this (minus the movers on the UFO if I remember correctly), and it was Bud-A-Liscious! Anybody looking for help with your setups, OrangeBlood is definitely a man to listen to.
:thanks:

You Rock :theband:
 
In the near future, I plan to do some edits to the original posting. More info, updated bulb info, ect. A couple of new people wanted some quick advice so I put together just what I had at the time. Please continue to add pics of your setups with detailed explanations. I would love to see what everyone has come up with! :)

Stay tuned. :popcorn:
 
Good Afternoon Folkz !!

At the request of Mr.Green007,, Im going to Post a Picture of my Light Set-Up.. And although I cant compete with the BIG DAWGZ,, I think its working out pretty well for me and my TINY Area.. ..

Ok so a quick Thought Check.. Im not sure how any of the other Growers feel about Lighting,, but personally,, I think that getting as many different Types and Spectrums of Lighting is always a Bonus !! !!

With that said,, Ill try to explain how I have my little Area Set-Up (to the best of my ability).. Im Growing in 2 Tents,, each is 2 Feet Deep x 2 Feet Wide x 6 Feet Tall,, set side by side,, One for Veg,, and One for Blooming.. ..

Ill describe the Bloom Tent for now.. In it I have 4 Types of Lighting,, an L.E.D.,, an H.P.S.,, an M.H.,, and a T5-H.O. Fixture.. The L.E.D. is a 90watt U.F.O. and 3,200 Lumens,, the H.P.S. is 150watt 2,100k and 16,500 Lumens,, the M.H. is 4,200k and 9,000 Lumens,, and the T5-H.O. is a 2 Foot x 4 Bulb Fixture that I have 2 x 6,500k 2,000 Lumens and 2 x 3,000k 2,000 Lumens Bulbs installed in.. Heres a Picture to help out a little (Sorry about the poor quality).. ..



Now I cant say that my way of doing things is the Best way,, heck I cant even say its a right way.. lol .. But it seems to be working pretty well for me.. ,, .. Hopefully my Set-Up might help somebody out at some point,, I KNOW this Thread will !! !!

Props to you Mr.Green007 for starting this Thread.. !! .. And AWESOME Job to the other Growers that have helped or contibuted !! !!

Much Love and Respect.. ..
 
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I'll make a contribution as well. Here's my 430 agro sun red with 6" vortex with cool tube. I plan on upgrading to a 600 hps for the next grow with a 4x4 tent. Hey answer how much did the sunmaster run you?? And is it really 95,000 lumens at 18 inches? I've got the same speed controller as you and never had to raise it over half way. Any pointers from anyone on the 600?

That is what they advertise, but I have never measured it. I paid around $40 for it, but the same place has it on sale for $19.99 right now! Here is the link:www.dchydro.com. I usually keep my speed control around half way too, even with the 600.




 
alright thanks answer, I was thinking that I had to get an eye hortilux for a bulb! whew, that is such a relief, I think I'll just buy the sunmaster, and keep it simple, I would really love to use a 400W MH bulb, but I'm not sure which one is compatible with the lumatek digital ballast. I keep hearing about bulbs not firing off because of compatibility issues
 
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