Full investigation on CFLs lumen output vs wattage vs price

[Envirotech]

Hi Guys,
I just finished testing some cfl's on just light output. Here i'm testing 250 watt 6400K vs. 250 watt 25000K vs. car type 35 watt HID system in 6000K. You are not going to believe what i found. First of all i checked the amp draw of a 250 watt cfl and found it was only drawing 0.9 amps@ 115VAC using ohms law this only equates to a little over 100 watts! i don't know why these are rated at 250 watts. It makes sense because if you were to measure the legth of the T5 tubes used in this bulb, it would measure about 15 feet. A T5 4 ft. tube is rated at 28 watts if you take 4 T5/28 tubes, it would add up to 112 watts and measures out at 15' (4 ft T5 are actually only 46" long) My next test was measuring amp draw of a 400 watt HPS and found it drew 3 amps@115 VAC or 345 watts. I have read some comparisons of cfl's vs. HPS. and the test were done assuming the wattage was correct, to few cfl's were used to fairly compair these bulbs. Infact the number used was less than half the amount that should have been used.
Try this yourself if you don't believe what i'm saying. All you need is a good amp probe meter.
Getting back to the test, i found the following light outputs: 250 watt 6400K put out an average of 5410 lux@3ft. 250 watt 25000K put out a disappointing 1750 lux@ 3ft. but the most amazing light was the car hid it put out an average of 19000 lux @ 3ft. Using two 35 watt hid lights mounted in a old fog light housing. That's only 70 watts total and it almost quadrupled the output of a 250 watt 6400K! What are these lights you ask? these are basically mini MH lamps that run off of 12 VDC designed for automotive headlights and come in a wide range of colors from 3000K to 25000K and 55 watt versions are available. I think these would be great for a stealth grow box better than cfl's. They run fairly cool too! The only down fall to these is that they are only rated for 3000 hrs. but i believe if you keep the ballast cool and aim a computer fan across the bulbs to keep them cool, this would make them last much longer and without road vibration and under hood engine heat it should at least double the life.
If there is intrest i will offer a complete set up

 

[SoundlessWord]

When ya go to Lowe's go to the electrical aisle and find the board where all the different switches, lampholders an such r mounted on pegboard or whatever. There are some lampholders that screw flat to the wall, ceiling or whatever for around 4 bucks an' change. Want better bang for buck hit yard sales an' get any hanging multiple light fixtures or those bathroom light bars. That stuff is really basic wiring, black=hot, white=nuetral, bare or green=ground. Take it apart with a screwdriver an' make whatever ya want.

I also found that T8 neutral bulbs have the flowering spectrums - was thinking of building a light and mixing the bulbs/tubes to get the spectrums max usable lumen absorption the plants need for growth. I know T5s kick out more lumens per tube yet when I go to yard sales flea markets etc...most people have the T8 fixtures - no T5s found yet.
My concern is cutting the metal I'd buy for duct work don't really want to take it to a metal shop though they'd cut and fit to my specs to I build as big a hood as I'd want to spread the love around
What do you think?

 

[Redhawk44]

Rubbish you just replace the daylight CFL's with Far red CFL's for the flowering period.

 

[johnw2269]

ok so i have been craving an upgrade to my grow, but first thing i need to settle on is my light. i will be growing in a 1x1 area. yes very small. i was contiplating getting a 100w MH. but decided not to for the money would not be efficiently spent. instead i will settle on multiple cfls

my goal is above 10,000 lumens.

i read somewhere of someone getting 7000 lumens for a 100w cfl. that is really good. but since i cannot find that bulb i am doin my own research. small bulbs put out too little per watt, and super huge ones do to. but larger bulbs cost more. so where is the happy medium? taking into account money spent at the counter and on teh electric bill what is the right way to go?



compairing products with their lumens output i have found that


1,700 lumens @ 26 watts = 52.17 lumens per watt.
3,000 lumens @ 40 watts = 75 lumens per watt.
9,200 lumens @ 150 watts = 61.33 lumens per watt.

clearly the biggest bang for the buck lookd like the 40 watt light. but after writing this i see it isnt. to demonstrate my point, lets go with a hypothetical set up, it is needed min 5,000 lumens per sq foot, and 10,000 lumens is what the sun puts out. so a good set up should have a bit more than 10,000 or around there. per foot. but for the sake of compairson...

lets use 18,000 lumens as our minimum goal so that the math adds up right and we have a comon denominator


11 x 26 watt = 18,700 lumens
6 x 40 watt = 18,000 lumens
2 x 150 watt = 18,400 lumens

now lets put some money value here.
using generalized prices

26 watt = $5 --> 1700 lumens/$5 340 lumens per dolar
40 watt = $35 --> 3000 lumens/$34 88.2 lumens per dollar
150 watt = $80 --> 9200 lumens/$80 115 lumens per dollar

so now lets apply the prices if we were to build our hypothetical 18,000 lumen grow box.

11 x $5 = $55
6 x $34 = $204
2 x $80 = $160

now that was the prices you pay up front at the check out line for the lights. now lets see how they will cost you when your in a 24 hour veg cycle for 4 week, or more specifically 31 days.
11 x 26w = 286w total
6 x 40w = 240w total
2 x 150w = 300w total

now lets pay for these lights to run for a straight month in a 24 hour veg cycle

286w total = $25.53 added to the bill
240w total = $21.53 added to the bill
300w total = $26.78 added to the bill

so the total you are paying for is

55+25.53= $80.53 for 18,700 lumens
204+21.53= $225.53 for 18,000 lumens
160+26.78 = $186.53 for 18,400 lumens

humm...... now this is where it gets subjective. for 80 bucks you can have 18,400 lumens from the little 26 watters. but you need 11 of them. it is going to be difficult to manage to make that happen. but if what you're aiming for is cheapest light source i think it is the 26w bulbs. so if you dont mind the hard work setting all that up then i gues these are the lights for you. I think the catch was that although the 40 watt does make more lumens to the watt, it is completely overpriced. and the overal difference in wattage is not important on the long run in the bill nor is it important on the short run, when u pay at cash register.

now to pack them together i dont know what kind of heat we are dealing with. i dont have any heat values. nor do i have size values. i bet it gets difficult to get 11 lights in a square foot above a plant.



Now please tell me what you think, point out flaws and all sorts. i plan on redoing this calculation. there has to be something wrong no?[/QUOTE]



Hi I grow using 10 32w 5000k bulbs for veg and 4 32w and 4 42w 2700k bulbs for flower, over 17,000 lumens for flower, 260 actual watts used, and I grow 3 girls and always get above .75 grams per watt. This is my current one going. She is 3.75 tall and at least 3 wide.

 

[johnw2269]

Should get about 6 to 7 Oz off her when all said and done, I also got 2 nice autos under the light that's going great too so I'll Def at least hit the .75g per watt mark again.

 

[johnw2269]

Oh yes all my bulbs were under 50 bucks for ALL of them. Some Walmart some ebay.

 

[Redhawk44]

Despite the fact that the lamps are CFL and therefore run a lot cooler than HPS there will be considerable heat build up in a tent or grow chamber the size you describe. You will need active ventilation to keep the temperatures at an acceptable level You can obtain multiple E27 lamp holders at reasonable prices on ePay but the most I have seen at realistic prices hold 4 or 5 lamps even so getting 11 in 1 sq foot is going to be next to impossible. Personally I use a single 125 watt (600 watt output) CFL in a dutch barn type refector. It produces around 6000 lumens. For a few hours a day I do switch on a second 2700k 125 watt CFL to add a few more lumens. I do not know as yet whether this is beneficial or not but I will wait and see. I like to experiment sometimes and sometimes it is not to the advantage of the plant.

Current grow
1 single Dutch Passion 'Auto Ultimate'

 

[TorturedSoul]

Despite the fact that the lamps are CFL and therefore run a lot cooler than HPS

Stick 600 watts of CFLs in a 3'x3' tent and you will quickly find that there is at least as much heat as a 600-watt HPS (but less illumination, lol) would produce in the same tent.

a single 125 watt (600 watt output) CFL

A 125-watt bulb cannot produce more than 125 watts' worth of output, lol.

in a dutch barn type refector. It produces around 6000 lumens. For a few hours a day I do switch on a second 2700k 125 watt CFL to add a few more lumens. I do not know as yet whether this is beneficial or not but I will wait and see.

More light is generally beneficial (as long as you have not already reached the maximum amount of illumination that cannabis plants can use - which is quite a bit, even for indicas). The only issue would be if that additional light drives the temperature of the grow area up too high (or, I suppose, the humidity too low) for you to deal with. And that's assuming that your plant is receiving enough water and nutrients to make use of the additional light, of course.

 

[johnw2269]

Stick 600 watts of CFLs in a 3'x3' tent and you will quickly find that there is at least as much heat as a 600-watt HPS (but less illumination, lol) would produce in the same tent.



A 125-watt bulb cannot produce more than 125 watts' worth of output, lol.



More light is generally beneficial (as long as you have not already reached the maximum amount of illumination that cannabis plants can use - which is quite a bit, even for indicas). The only issue would be if that additional light drives the temperature of the grow area up too high (or, I suppose, the humidity too low) for you to deal with. And that's assuming that your plant is receiving enough water and nutrients to make use of the additional light, of course.

I have them in a 4x2x6 tent and my Temps are great. 76/79 lights on and 68/69 lights off, no heat build up here mate. I use a 6 inch clip fan for circulation and a small box fan for fresh air in. It's a closed unit besides air coming in. No exhaust.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Err... You have fresh air coming in, but no exhaust, lol? <SCRATCHES HEAD> The air pressure in there must be tremendous....

 

[johnw2269]

Pressure not bad the hot air can exhaust itself but no I have no exhaust fans. I keep the top hole open but no fan exhausting it out. Like I said I do great with my CFL setup and I also get numbers close to what some ppl get off hps or led. My setup for my needs and space is great, wouldn't change a thing, been getting at least .75grams per watt for about a year now with the same bulbs in. Gonna change them after my current grow is done.

 

[johnw2269]

OK well my grow with only CFLS is almost complete. The results are amazing so far. Checked on her this morning and she's finally turning purple like she is supposed too.

 

[johnw2269]

I'll get newer pics with the purple colors coming out in her.

 

[johnw2269]

260 actual watts and I have 2 other nice sized ladies in the tent with this big girl. I'm thinking I'll get around at least 210 to 225 grams dry, no less than 200 I bet. And this is with CFL only, so yes it CAN be done with cfls, or fluorescent lighting. Hope you enjoy.

 

[Jimdog]

I'll get newer pics with the purple colors coming out in her.

I'm really glad I can finally see results from cfl. I'm using them at the moment and was wondering once they flip to flower if it would be worth It. Would I be smart to maybe add a few small LEDs? If so what?

Jimdogggy

 

[johnw2269]

Me personally, I wouldn't but that's just me. I just harvested this girl and got 194 grams of DRY top shelf herb. I use just CFL only and got .8 grams per watt. Whatever is best for you jim.

 

[Jimdog]

Me personally, I wouldn't but that's just me. I just harvested this girl and got 194 grams of DRY top shelf herb. I use just CFL only and got .8 grams per watt. Whatever is best for you jim.

I'll stick to cfl and see how I go I think. Atm I haven't seen anything massive on the power bill and the plants are growing strong and happy with just cfl. Hopefully it's the same when it comes to budding thanks again

Jimdogggy

 

[TorturedSoul]

Me personally, I wouldn't but that's just me. I just harvested this girl and got 194 grams of DRY top shelf herb. I use just CFL only and got .8 grams per watt.

Using around 242 watts? There's no real reason why you shouldn't be able to harvest a like amount from a 250-watt HPS. Some people do better in terms of grams per watt (as, I suppose, is true for CFL). The heat produced ought to be similar; but there are air-cooled reflectors available for HID which allow the grower to treat the heated from the lamp (and the air heated by same) as a thing separate from the odor of the grow room (and the air scented by same), which can have multiple advantages. Also, it is far easier to place the HID ballast outside of the grow room than it is to painstakingly modify lots of CFL bulbs so that their ballasts are removable, so HID lighting tends to have an automatic edge where heat is concerned.

Really, I suppose choice of lighting comes down to the grower's personal taste and their chosen method/style of growing.

 

[Jimdog]

Using around 242 watts? There's no real reason why you shouldn't be able to harvest a like amount from a 250-watt HPS. Some people do better in terms of grams per watt (as, I suppose, is true for CFL). The heat produced ought to be similar; but there are air-cooled reflectors available for HID which allow the grower to treat the heated from the lamp (and the air heated by same) as a thing separate from the odor of the grow room (and the air scented by same), which can have multiple advantages. Also, it is far easier to place the HID ballast outside of the grow room than it is to painstakingly modify lots of CFL bulbs so that their ballasts are removable, so HID lighting tends to have an automatic edge where heat is concerned.

Really, I suppose choice of lighting comes down to the grower's personal taste and their chosen method/style of growing.

Would hid remove the need for another veg light? Sorry I'm very new to lights and just trying to wrap my head around what will be better in the long run. If hid then how would I go about getting one set up ect? Thanks in advance!

Jimdogggy

 

[Jimdog]

Would hid remove the need for another veg light? Sorry I'm very new to lights and just trying to wrap my head around what will be better in the long run. If hid then how would I go about getting one set up ect? Thanks in advance!

Jimdogggy

Or an hps

Jimdogggy