Cherry Gar See Ya R1 RDWC w/ AC Infinity Smart Kit EVO6 LED

[ChronicKid007]

Day 15: I came home today and the tube for the doser that goes into the reservoir was laying on my floor. There is now a nice little acid stain on my carpet 0.0 . . .

Lucky for both me and the plant, the PH was sitting steady at 5.8. The PPM remained similar to yesterday, but the next node is already coming in the the fan leaves are about a half of an inch. I am not mad about a half of an inch growth for one set of new node leaves after such a terrible start. But the root structure is having no problems starting to braid and branch out. As long as the roots are good right now, the plant is good.

I feel pretty good about the setup finally. Everything is taped, zip tied, or twisty tied into place. I'm going to decrease the humidity tomorrow to increase the VPD while the lights are out. I had humidity problems today that I just couldn't seem to solve. The oscillating fans, filter, and intake fan were all on high, but the humidity remained stable at 73%. I think I'm going to try turning off the humidifier with 30 minutes to go in the light cycle. Hopefully, this will assist with eliminating some of the moisture in the air while the light is still on. I also adjusted the fans a little. I think when I had them oscillating before, they were blowing straight onto the plant. They are now aimed at just over the top.

Because this website doesn't measure impressions, I'm not sure if anyone reads this. I'm going to start sizing my photos to match. Maybe that will make it more visually aesthetic.

Cheers,
Dank Jedi

 

[ChronicKid007]

Day 20: In much better shape now. I like the posting ever 5 days so it's easier to see the changes, so I think that's what I'll continue to do.

I did my first full reservoir change on Day 18 and the plant loved it. I believe I am now in what is called the early growth stage, so upped the total PPM to 600. You can find the chart I'm following first early growth levels for "medium feed" here.

As of today, the plant has drank a half gallon of water, and decreased the PPM to 540. If you average PPM per gallon (15), it comes out to about 40. So this tells me that the plant is eating more than it's drinking. Because the growth is about to go off, I would guess it'll keep eating for another day or two before the roots are big enough to take enough water down to match their feed intake.

All of the growth after I installed the doser has been a beautiful green, so I have no concerns about any nutrient burn or deficiencies at least through the next reservoir change. I'm interested in seeing whether or not I can ride out this reservoir all the way through without needing to top off before a swap. I see a world where the plant just eats and eats and eats, and just sips water along the way. But I'm prepared either way, as I have plain water to add if the PPM starts rising.

 

[Delps8]

Day 20: In much better shape now. I like the posting ever 5 days so it's easier to see the changes, so I think that's what I'll continue to do.

I did my first full reservoir change on Day 18 and the plant loved it. I believe I am now in what is called the early growth stage, so upped the total PPM to 600. You can find the chart I'm following first early growth levels for "medium feed" here.

As of today, the plant has drank a half gallon of water, and decreased the PPM to 540. If you average PPM per gallon (15), it comes out to about 40. So this tells me that the plant is eating more than it's drinking. Because the growth is about to go off, I would guess it'll keep eating for another day or two before the roots are big enough to take enough water down to match their feed intake.

All of the growth after I installed the doser has been a beautiful green, so I have no concerns about any nutrient burn or deficiencies at least through the next reservoir change. I'm interested in seeing whether or not I can ride out this reservoir all the way through without needing to top off before a swap. I see a world where the plant just eats and eats and eats, and just sips water along the way. But I'm prepared either way, as I have plain water to add if the PPM starts rising.

Perhaps it's the lighting/photo but the plant looks like it has an interveinal chlorosis with, IIRC, is a sign of a magnesium deficiency. Is that just the photos?

From what I can tell, you're neither topping off (with nutrient solution) nor adding back (RO water) but are allowing the water level to fall in the res. Is that the approach you're taking?

Re. the math with PPMs — PPM has, essentially, nothing to do with the chemicals that are in the solution. It sounds like a neat idea but, in reality, nutrients in a hydro res are taken up at different rates so EC tells us nothing about what's in the res. PPM and TDS are simply a conversions from EC so, neither of them are very informative about what's in the res, especially since only a few chemicals have a signficant impact on EC.

I've heard the "eating more than drinking" and that confuses me. What does that mean? Chemicals from the nutrients are dissolved in the water so plants, as long as plants are taking up water, they're taking up nutrients. What am I missing?

 

[Delps8]

Day 15: I came home today and the tube for the doser that goes into the reservoir was laying on my floor. There is now a nice little acid stain on my carpet 0.0 . . .

Lucky for both me and the plant, the PH was sitting steady at 5.8. The PPM remained similar to yesterday, but the next node is already coming in the the fan leaves are about a half of an inch. I am not mad about a half of an inch growth for one set of new node leaves after such a terrible start. But the root structure is having no problems starting to braid and branch out. As long as the roots are good right now, the plant is good.

I feel pretty good about the setup finally. Everything is taped, zip tied, or twisty tied into place. I'm going to decrease the humidity tomorrow to increase the VPD while the lights are out. I had humidity problems today that I just couldn't seem to solve. The oscillating fans, filter, and intake fan were all on high, but the humidity remained stable at 73%. I think I'm going to try turning off the humidifier with 30 minutes to go in the light cycle. Hopefully, this will assist with eliminating some of the moisture in the air while the light is still on. I also adjusted the fans a little. I think when I had them oscillating before, they were blowing straight onto the plant. They are now aimed at just over the top.

Because this website doesn't measure impressions, I'm not sure if anyone reads this. I'm going to start sizing my photos to match. Maybe that will make it more visually aesthetic.

Cheers,
Dank Jedi

That tube was a bit of a PITA for me. It's…stubborn!

My res has net pots that I don't use so I ended up sticking the end of the tube into a hole in the net pot "cover" in one of the spare net pots. The doser is on the wall to the right of the tent and it runs from the port on the right into the second net pot from the left - might be hard to see.

Before that, I had it taped to the res top. That didn't work out too well.

 

[ChronicKid007]

Perhaps it's the lighting/photo but the plant looks like it has an interveinal chlorosis with, IIRC, is a sign of a magnesium deficiency. Is that just the photos?

From what I can tell, you're neither topping off (with nutrient solution) nor adding back (RO water) but are allowing the water level to fall in the res. Is that the approach you're taking?

Re. the math with PPMs — PPM has, essentially, nothing to do with the chemicals that are in the solution. It sounds like a neat idea but, in reality, nutrients in a hydro res are taken up at different rates so EC tells us nothing about what's in the res. PPM and TDS are simply a conversions from EC so, neither of them are very informative about what's in the res, especially since only a few chemicals have a signficant impact on EC.

I've heard the "eating more than drinking" and that confuses me. What does that mean? Chemicals from the nutrients are dissolved in the water so plants, as long as plants are taking up water, they're taking up nutrients. What am I missing?

You are correct with the deficiency callout. Before I got the PH doser, I had major issues for several days. Super high, then super low. But it's been steady between 5.8-6.2 since. Thankfully, the issue is only on the first set of fan leaves, so I think it's contained.

I haven't topped off yet, I was wondering if the water uptake will be on par with the decrease in PPM over time.

When people talk about a plant drinking and not feeding, it meets the PPM is increasing because the plant is uptaking water, but not nutrients. I may not be right, but this is the understanding on how to control a healthy plant at various stages in hydro. Ensuring the PPM isn't too high is important so that there is no nutrient burn.

 

[ChronicKid007]

That tube was a bit of a PITA for me. It's…stubborn!

My res has net pots that I don't use so I ended up sticking the end of the tube into a hole in the net pot "cover" in one of the spare net pots. The doser is on the wall to the right of the tent and it runs from the port on the right into the second net pot from the left - might be hard to see.

Before that, I had it taped to the res top. That didn't work out too well.

Mine, is currently taped to the res, but through a small hole I drilled so it drips from the top. I think at this point it's secure though.

 

[Delps8]

Mine, is currently taped to the res, but through a small hole I drilled so it drips from the top. I think at this point it's secure though.

I used Gorilla tape but that eventually came loose. That hose is a squarely little fucker!

 

[Delps8]

You are correct with the deficiency callout. Before I got the PH doser, I had major issues for several days. Super high, then super low. But it's been steady between 5.8-6.2 since. Thankfully, the issue is only on the first set of fan leaves, so I think it's contained.

pH should be very stable in your setup. My res holds 26 gallons which is very close to the amount of nutes in your setup and I love it that I only have to do a few res changes.

I haven't topped off yet, I was wondering if the water uptake will be on par with the decrease in PPM over time.

When people talk about a plant drinking and not feeding, it meets the PPM is increasing because the plant is uptaking water, but not nutrients. I may not be right, but this is the understanding on how to control a healthy plant at various stages in hydro. Ensuring the PPM isn't too high is important so that there is no nutrient burn.

Yeh, it's "conventional wisdom".

EC is measure the "electrical conductivity" of the solution it's measured in…micro Siemens per cm or somesuch. I don't really know. That value is converted to PPM which means how many parts per million of sodium chloride would need to be in a solution to have the same level of electrical conductivity. That's the 500 scale. The 700 scale, which is used in Australia as far as I can tell, is based on potassium chloride. Big whoop. They're both pretty pointless.

I've attached a couple of papers on res management. The one by Bruce Bugbee helped me understand why EC/PPM/TDS have no particular meaning. Check out the info on page 2.

(I just did a screenshot)

In a "normal" res, the Group 1 stuff will be gone "in a few hours" while the slow uptake is brought in in the nute water. But then he writes "The total amount of nutrients in solution can easily and accurately be determined byvmeasuring the electrical conductivity of the solution. However, because of the differential rate of nutrient uptake, conductivity measurements mostly measure the calcium, magnesium and sulfate remaining in solution."

What I take this to mean is that the NO3, NH4, P, K, and Mn are mostly taken up before we see PPM change when the plants are small. That's because we have lots of nute water and the plants are taking up very little water/nutes. That changes in veg and flower but, at first, it's pretty slow.

What I don't get is how you're getting a half gallon of uptake. How? That plant doesn't have much surface area so I'm wondering about VPD.

Bugbee talks about replenishing with a ⅓ strength solution. I've done that but switched when I found the CannaStats page. That advice hit home and I think it's appropriate for you because your res is big enough - like it recommends, you have about 3 gallons of nutes per square foot of canopy. Very few growers have that and one of the advantages is that you don't have to dick around swapping out your res every week.

The CannaStats site recommends adding back RO and tracking how much water you've added back. Once you have added back the same number of gallons as you've got in your res, swap the res.

That's pretty straightforward but I've never gotten to the 100% mark.

The other approach is to track add backs but swap the res when pH starts to get squirrelly. That usually happens when EC/PPM drops by 30%. That's why I said that you might want to hold off on the doser — it the doser is keeping you at 5.8, the only way to know how unstable your res is is to track the run time of the doser. If you're using the new doser, that has WiFi, that value is in the app. I have last year's model so I have to run through the menus to get the number of minutes and seconds and then figure out how many ml of Up or Down been dispensed. Not a showstopper but I'd rather have the WiFi version!

 

[ChronicKid007]

The CannaStats site recommends adding back RO and tracking how much water you've added back. Once you have added back the same number of gallons as you've got in your res, swap the res.

This is $$$. Thank you.

All great information, and understand your point about the first stage of nutrients being dissolved relatively quickly, and then the next stage a little slower, and then lastly the calcium.

The doser is already set up with the check times and how many ml need to be added, and I'm content with how it's maintaining. I don't have the wifi one, and honestly, it's the very first part of this grow I "skimped" on. I just decided it wasn't worth the extra money.

 

[ChronicKid007]

Day 22: still growing, but the rusty ugly color is starting to encroach again. I’m torn because calcium or magnesium because I’ve had the damn PH too low for it to get up in there. So I’m adding more calmag in Back to back nights. This could be something. Adjust the PH to focus on the calcium and magnesium . Ez ez we got you lil girl.

 

[ChronicKid007]

Day 26: TOP DAY

I plucked the bottom 3 nodes off, and topped between the 4th and 5th. Currently, the 4th node is without fan leaves. They were particularly damaged, so I figured they would be unnecessary. Did a half/res change yesterday because there seemed to be a little bit of nute burn on each leaf at the tip. Root ball looks nice and healthy, so no complaints there. But one of the air stone tubes is becoming wrapped up pretty quickly, so we'll see how that plays out.

Hoping for a quick bounce-back with the topping. The plant feels pretty rigid actually, so I'm a little concerned about hyper training it like I had planned. Will post again in a few days with the results of the topping. Pictures are pre-top and post-top.

 

[Delps8]

This is $$$. Thank you.

All great information, and understand your point about the first stage of nutrients being dissolved relatively quickly, and then the next stage a little slower, and then lastly the calcium.

The doser is already set up with the check times and how many ml need to be added, and I'm content with how it's maintaining. I don't have the wifi one, and honestly, it's the very first part of this grow I "skimped" on. I just decided it wasn't worth the extra money.

The WiFi version would make it easier but it's just a few key presses to get to the pump run time.

The text below is from the Excel workbook that I use for a journal. If you're using Excel/want to use Excel and need and explanation, lemme know.

There's no need to use that — you can just note down the start and end times to get some idea of how much Up/Down is being used.

When plants go into flower, pH should drop and that means you get to purge the doser and switch to Up. Dunno if you've thought of that. It takes a few minutes and then, about a week later, you'll need to purge it again and switch back to Down.

Re. pruning/defoliation - have you thought through a strategy on that? If you're open to suggestions… ;-)

Also, I'm a big fan of adding silica. It is really helpful in stopping powdery mildew and it does make stems stronger. I've used Botanicare's Silica Blast and have mixed my own. Both work and the $$ savings on mixing wasn't that great.

The plant looks much better, that's great to see. It was looking a little rough for a while.

Re. bounce back from topping — I've never noticed any slow down in growth. I've heard plenty of "let it recover" and that doesn't click with me. It's a tiny amount of plant material that has never contributed anything to the growth of the plant and the wound covers over in 24± hours. The big change is that the auxins now flow to the two nodes below where the plant was topped. That lets them grow more quickly than if the plant had not been topped. It's always been a non-event to me but I'm also of the "This place sucks, let's stay a while." and "It doesn't rain on the Army, it rains for the Army." mindset.