Council Bans Sale of Single Cigars

[wordsworm]

True freedom is a myth because they can cancel each other out. The whole idea that people have died for freedom is just government propaganda. Every day of every year and dozens of times on July 4, and again on Nov. 11 (our version of 1984's hate week), people are inundated by declarations of freedom. Does that mean the USA is a free country?

Maybe you want to say that it's kind of free, but not really free, and you want the laws to change so that everyone is free.

How it is that one person managed to say that it's ok to expose children to tobacco smoke is unbelievable for me. Should we say that it's ok to give children alcohol because it makes them sleep better at night? Or should we say it's not allowed because it can impair their development? Should we say anyone should be free to smoke tobacco in front of children, or should we say that children should be free from the terrible consequences of second hand smoke and possibly the desire to become a smoker themselves brought on by the second hand smoke? Whose freedom are we to assure? The child's, or the smokers? You seem to believe it should be the smoker's freedom we need to protect, screw the kid, let the kid get addicted, possibly get cancer, to protect the smoker's freedom. That's what I mean when freedom is a myth: as soon as you assert one freedom, you take away from another person's freedom. Being free to play 130 decibels of rock and roll is balanced against the neighbor's freedom to relative peace and quiet.

Should we be free to cross a traffic light regardless of the color? Or should we have to conform to the laws which are designed to make us safe? My approach to freedom is simple: where a freedom does not impose itself on another in a direct way, then the freedom to should be preserved. The freedom to smoke mj should be allowed insofar as it's controlled so that it doesn't offend other people. MJ has a very strong smell - we might like it, but others don't. How can we not be compassionate of other people's right not to be assaulted by it? Heck, some people are allergic to it (ie, my sister). Shall we disregard them for our right to smoke it?

Freedom is a balance, not this simplistic thing that our forefathers thought they were fighting for in the simplistic propaganda slogans coined by a government who used that word to control its people. You can go all primal instinct on me if you want, getting offended as it seems you have, it's OK, that's how you've been programmed by your government.

 

[green4me]

Hell when I smoked I rarely just buy 1 cigar. Hell come to think of it, I never just got 1. 5 was the norm. What are they thinking? Price of smoke is threw the roof, hasn't stopped anybody yet. Selling cigars 5 at a time means more smoking.

 

[Jim Finnel]

You can go all primal instinct on me if you want, getting offended as it seems you have, it's OK, that's how you've been programmed by your government.

i'm not offended. i just don't agree. who's gone primal? perhaps you are too easily offended.

its my right to drive down any road i please for as far as i please (for now at least). but when i come to a red light i need to stop for my own safety as well as others. that doesn't restrict my right to travel.

if your going to punish foolish people who smoke around kids then perhaps you should also punish parents who allow their children to eat unhealthy food. or perhaps parents should be forced to move from cities because the air the kids breathe is not healthy. if a child is injured playing a sport perhaps those parents should be punished as well for allowing a child to participate in an unsafe activity. imo most churches teach things that damage a childs mind. lets punish parents who take kids to church. i'm offended by it.

as for offending others being a reason for a restriction of my rights, i say b.s. where would the line be drawn. i'm offended by all the signs you see in front of churches telling me that if i don't believe what they do i'll go to hell. sounds like hate speech to me. sounds like free speech to them. perhaps people who fart in elevators should be fined or jailed? i hate to quote cheney but "we've turned into a nation of whinners".

The whole idea that people have died for freedom is just government propaganda.

not to the ones who died fighting for freedom or lost loved ones.

if a government is only concerned with freedom as a tool of propaganda then it needs to be overthrown and power returned to the people. its an old idea that goes back to the founders.

 

[Pinch]

I say this:

The city government has already made the sale of single cigars illegal.

The city government should make the sale all tobacco products illegal.

Now that would get my support.

 

[RooRman]

The whole idea that people have died for freedom is just government propaganda.

Whoa there, I know a whole host of Americans who would have a huge problem with that statement. I refer to them as the brave members of the United States military. Poltics set entirely aside, they are the men and women doing all the dirty work. And yes many of them have died in the process.

I say this:

The city government has already made the sale of single cigars illegal.

The city government should make the sale all tobacco products illegal.

Now that would get my support.

So we should institute more laws allowing the government to control what substances we put into our own bodies? Isn't a key factor in marijuana law reform to reduce this type of thinking?

 

[wordsworm]

i'm not offended. i just don't agree. who's gone primal? perhaps you are too easily offended.

its my right to drive down any road i please for as far as i please (for now at least). but when i come to a red light i need to stop for my own safety as well as others. that doesn't restrict my right to travel.

if your going to punish foolish people who smoke around kids then perhaps you should also punish parents who allow their children to eat unhealthy food. or perhaps parents should be forced to move from cities because the air the kids breathe is not healthy. if a child is injured playing a sport perhaps those parents should be punished as well for allowing a child to participate in an unsafe activity. imo most churches teach things that damage a childs mind. lets punish parents who take kids to church. i'm offended by it.

as for offending others being a reason for a restriction of my rights, i say b.s. where would the line be drawn. i'm offended by all the signs you see in front of churches telling me that if i don't believe what they do i'll go to hell. sounds like hate speech to me. sounds like free speech to them. perhaps people who fart in elevators should be fined or jailed? i hate to quote cheney but "we've turned into a nation of whinners".


not to the ones who died fighting for freedom or lost loved ones.

if a government is only concerned with freedom as a tool of propaganda then it needs to be overthrown and power returned to the people. its an old idea that goes back to the founders.

Parents should be required to see to it that their children have proper nutrition. That's a good point. As to sports, last I checked most parents are required to properly outfit their children with protective equipment, use seat belts when they're in the car, so why not protect them from cancer causing second hand smoke? Why not protect them from having parents who smoke MJ by making MJ smoking legal only around adults?

Sure people have died for freedom. That's what their government has told them. Those people who've died in Iraq haven't died for freedom, unless you mean the freedom of Americans to steal Iraqi oil.

 

[GeorgiaSmoker]

Parents should be required to see to it that their children have proper nutrition. That's a good point. As to sports, last I checked most parents are required to properly outfit their children with protective equipment, use seat belts when they're in the car, so why not protect them from cancer causing second hand smoke? Why not protect them from having parents who smoke MJ by making MJ smoking legal only around adults?

Sure people have died for freedom. That's what their government has told them. Those people who've died in Iraq haven't died for freedom, unless you mean the freedom of Americans to steal Iraqi oil.

no offense but it doesnt sound like your country's any better hanging folks for selling and possessing marijuana. An article i just read on this website 420 Magazine Newsletter - November 23, 2008 on the home page

 

[wordsworm]

I didn't realize that Canada was hanging folks. Maybe you're referring to my location. Well, in Indonesia there's severe consequences for smuggling drugs. If, on the other hand, you want to put pot in your food, it's ok. It's OK to use marijuana as food seasoning, Indonesian official says - On Deadline - USATODAY.com

In one of the towns I grew up in, Courtenay BC, Canada, there were 3 families living in one house. Well, since that was against the bylaw, they were ejected from the home. That would never happen in Indonesia. In Indonesia, I routinely see children riding motorcycles with their parents, between their legs, without any harness, without a helmet. This too is a freedom that isn't allowed in Canada. In Indonesia, police are quite open about soliciting bribes. That freedom isn't allowed in Canada. In Indonesia, where I live, there's a mosque that blasts Allah prayers 5 times per day, including at 5 am in the morning for about 1 hour. This is also another freedom that isn't allowed in Canada, probably because the neighbors would kick up a fuss.

Freedom is such a poorly understood word. I don't know if that's the fault of the governments in the western world, or if people just prefer to be self centered and say that whatever freedom they want should be OK, and whatever freedoms shouldn't be granted go against a certain moral code and therefore shouldn't be OK. When the majority support them, then that's grand. If you fit into that 'free' model, then that's great. It must feel wonderful. Those who do not fit into that model, such as those who want to smoke pot for whatever reason, are outside of it and feel the pinch of the restriction of freedom.

You know, in Canada, they forced a Muslim girl off the soccer field because she refused to take off her habit (I forget the word for it that Muslims use). Another woman was forced out of a corrections school because she wanted to wear it. Other women complained because it's a symbol of women's repression. But to repress the Muslim woman who wanted to wear it is OK.

Again, and if folks still want to wave the 'we're free' or 'we're fighting for freedom' or some such slogan that they've had instilled in them since birth, then that's fine. When you care to fully explore the concept of it, debate it, to better come to understand the consequences of it and the importance of finding a balance between freedoms, then the discussions and debates will become not only more interesting, but they may also bear the fruit of enlightenment. It might also help us become more successful, if we understand both sides of the issue and be compassionate about it, we may very well have the foundation for getting what we want.

Will everyone here argue that it should be OK for teachers to smoke in the classroom? MJ or tobacco? My parents' generation in school, the freedom to smoke tobacco was tolerated. You could smoke just about anywhere. Thankfully, those freedoms are gone, so that the freedom to breathe air void of second hand smoke is upheld. That's what the ideal of freedom is - a balance, finding how we can coexist with each other so that we may do as we wish without imposing ourselves on each other. Where prostitution is legal, but solicitation in the streets is not. Where smoking MJ at home with adults, and no children in the room, is legal, but smoking it with the kids is not.

Anyways, that's enough from me.

 

[RooRman]

While we are at it, let us for a moment supplement the word "freedom" with the word "peace". A word that cannabis users in particular have held in high regard down through the ages.

On occasion, does my idea of peace cause an intrusion on others... sure. I would be foolish to say it didn’t. Is the same not sometimes true of others actions concerning me? Of course it is. But there are very few things we cannot obtain through a reasonable conversation and a peaceful resolution.

It is up to the people themselves to carry themselves in a respectable manner. Be kind and courteous to those around you at all times. If someone intrudes upon your personal space, make them aware of it. You could also do much worse then simply laughing something off. If there was one thing above all else to be learned from the “dirty hippies” it was this... Peace, love, and understanding.

At the crux of the issue, the government should not be put in the position of power to police and dictate the simple instances of everyday life. If someone is smoking a cigarette and you don’t approve you can simply move along your own way. You could also politely ask the person to put it out. All this concern over simple idiocies, that is felt should be outlawed by new legislation is entirely asinine. Perhaps you’d see it fit to ticket someone for coughing too loud during a movie. Where does the nonsense law end? Well once you start, there is simply no limit.

Peace, much like freedom, is an extremely valuable thing. Both are fully possible for all with a little cooperation.