Debating Light Schedules: Not the usual dark-cycle or no-dark-cycle dilemma

[TheFertilizer]

Anyone heard of the 'Gas Lantern Routine' or 12/1? It's where you have 12 hours of light, followed by 5.5 hours of dark, another 1 hour of light, and another 5.5 hours of dark.

What I don't really understand is what is the point of doing that versus just having 13 hours of lights on, and 11 of lights off? I can't really see any benefit (for most situations) to throwing the extra hour of light into the middle of the dark cycle like that, and I can only imagine it would stress the plant out a little bit.

I am just wondering because I'm trying to set up a flowering tent and a veg tent, and I'd like their lights to be on at separate times of the day to keep the electrical load on my fuse ( a single 30 amp fuse ) to a minimal.

I want my flowering light to come on from 9 PM to 9 AM, as these will be the coolest hours during the peak warm months. So I need to figure out how to give my veg tent at least 13 hours of light around that, and minimize the amount of time both lights are on at the same time. Also, from what I have read some sativas might even start flowering even with only 11 hrs of darkness when they're mature enough? So I'm not sure if 13 is all I'll need.

I could start the veg light at 9 AM after the flower light has gone out, and then run it until 10 P.M but there would be that 1 hr of overlap where both lights were on. Worse yet, the flower light ( a 315 CMH ) will be firing on while the T5 is already on, and at 9 PM it will not have cooled outside that significantly.

But maybe that's where the GLR would be beneficial...

I could stick with the flower light coming on at 9 PM and going off at 9 AM, and have the veg light come on at 9 AM and be off at 9 PM, but then at 2:30 I'd turn the veg light back on again for an hour. At this point the CMH will be all nice and warmed up, and the outside temps ( and thus those of my circuits ) will be much lower, so the surge of the veg light coming on will be pretty minimal compared to trying to fire the CMH on at 9 PM while the T5 is still running.

So I'm thinking my best bet is:

Flower Light ( 315 w CMH )
On: 9 PM
Off: 9 AM

Veg Light ( 200 w T5 )
On: 9 AM
Off: 9 PM
On: 2:30 AM
Off: 3:30 AM


I am still iffy about it though. I worry that it will stress the plants out having the lights come on at a whacky time like that, and also I'm not really sure that restricting the dark hours to 11 will keep a sativa from flowering.

Opinions?

 

[TorturedSoul]

What I don't really understand is what is the point of doing that versus just having 13 hours of lights on, and 11 of lights off?

Because some strains may begin flowering on 13/11?

I can't really see any benefit (for most situations) to throwing the extra hour of light into the middle of the dark cycle like that, and I can only imagine it would stress the plant out a little bit.

Yeah, probably so. But I cannot possibly "quantify" that statement with any kind of amount. Maybe (perhaps even probably) not enough to worry about most of the time, but my guess is that, if the gardener is growing a strain noted for producing hermpahroditic examples once in a while... that this thing could end up causing that trait to be expressed. Again, however, only a guess on my part.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Because some strains may begin flowering on 13/11?



Yeah, probably so. But I cannot possibly "quantify" that statement with any kind of amount. Maybe (perhaps even probably) not enough to worry about most of the time, but my guess is that, if the gardener is growing a strain noted for producing hermpahroditic examples once in a while... that this thing could end up causing that trait to be expressed. Again, however, only a guess on my part.

I just don't understand why having the hour thrown into the middle of the dark cycle would keep it from flowering if it were going to flower on 13/11 though :/

Also, I looked at my weather data, and it looks like 2 AM to 2 PM would actually be the coolest time to run my light.

So it's really either...

Flower Light ( 315 w CMH )
On: 2 AM
Off: 2 PM

Veg Light ( 200 w T5 )
On: 2 PM
Off: 2 AM
On: 7:30 AM
Off: 8:30 AM

OR

Veg Light ( 200 w T5 )
On: 2 PM
Off: 3 AM


Maybe it would be a good idea to just do 14-16 hrs on with the veg light to make sure it doesn't flower. That way it would still be on along with the CMH at the cooler hours. I wonder if there is any thing to the GLR method that says I can't interrupt with 2 hours of light instead of 1.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I just don't understand why having the hour thrown into the middle of the dark cycle would keep it from flowering if it were going to flower on 13/11 though :/

Oh, I see.

I wonder if there is any thing to the GLR method that says I can't interrupt with 2 hours of light instead of 1.

Only that it isn't necessary. Don't look at it from the perspective of "I'm adding more light-hours per day." Instead, think, "I am interrupting the dark cycle." Because that's what the concept is all about. It's not the number of light-hours that determines whether or not a photoperiodic plant will flower, it's the number of hours of uninterrupted darkness.

It's a "science thing" that I'm in no shape to remember, let alone actually discuss right now. But, basically, when the lights shut off for the day, certain processes go on in the plant. But that's not an instantaneous thing - it takes some time. When the gardener interrupts this process - by flipping the lights back on in the middle(+/-) of the dark cycle, it "resets the clock," so to speak, and when those lights go out again, the process must begin anew. In other words, the plant doesn't just start back up where it was at in the process immediately before you flipped the lights on.

Key word here is "uninterrupted." For the purpose, one hour should be as good as two hours (but the former is cheaper than the latter ).

Off-topic, but: That little delay I mentioned above is why some folks are experimenting with running a certain color/wavelength of light at the end of the lights-on cycle - in an attempt to speed that "switch to flowering" process. If they find success with their experimentation, they might be able to add an extra hour or two (or some amount, IDK) to each day's lights-on time and still be able to initiate/maintain flowering, whilst keeping things to a 24-hour day. If they can manage to get their plants to flower under (for example) a 14:10 light:dark cycle, that's two extra hours of "fuel" per day, so to speak.

 

[TheFertilizer]

Ah that's right. Sometimes I get stuck thinking about it as an accumulative. It's actually knowing the science behind it that got in the way. The flowering response is triggered by ratios of phytochrome A to phytocrhome B but for some reason I forgot the rest of my science class and was assuming that was something proportionate. I.e. when there was 50% of phytocrhome A and 50% of phytochrome B that's when flowering was triggered, but I forgot that in the same lesson there was an interesting anecdote: A mall had plants that would never flower and they couldn't figure out why, until they realized that their security guard making his rounds at night with the flashlight was interrupted the darkness cycle and preventing it. That's pretty much akin to the "Gas Lantern Routine's" namesake so that should have been a no-brainer except I was all caught up in the "science" of it.

I do worry about the idea that it could bring out hermaphrodite tendencies though, because I have had this cut throw a few male flowers once already. I think that was just because I took really far into flower ( 13 weeks ) and it was already pretty stressed. Luckily it happened so late in flower it didn't matter, but I was worried about introducing any stresses because of that.

 

[TorturedSoul]

I do worry about the idea that it could bring out hermaphrodite tendencies though, because I have had this cut throw a few male flowers once already.

Yeah, maybe. I wouldn't look at it as causing it, merely being a trigger... Kind of like how it may be with schizophrenia. Traumatic events and other triggers do not cause schizophrenia, but they can trigger its expression in an individual who is "predisposed."

I think that was just because I took really far into flower ( 13 weeks ) and it was already pretty stressed. Luckily it happened so late in flower it didn't matter, but I was worried about introducing any stresses because of that.

I (and most others) would consider that to be a different thing entirely. Remember that the plant's purpose is the same as other lifeforms', to produce the next generation. Nearing the end of your life cycle and you haven't been pollinated? "Self yourself" and hope there are males present next year, lol (that might be the plant's perspective - if plants had such things). Probably just a mutation that occurred far in the past that happened to give those plants an advantage over time (vs. ones that couldn't produce opposite-sex flowers in the absence of a legitimate male plant), so it ended up being a favorable mutation that was able to be passed down. Now it seems to be a relatively common thing if one allows their plants to live long enough while in flower.

Which is not to say that such plants couldn't end up producing opposite-sex flowers under a "GLR." Merely that, if it did occur, it'd probably be coincidental (IMHO).

 

[Jackalope]

From everything I have learned over time. Adding that extra hour of light then darkness again will cause more problems than it could solve. Interrupting the plant when it wants to do certain things is just asking for a hermy. Basic light schedules have worked for years.
Of course with more growing going on more people are going to want to do things their own way. Lots of people trying to reinvent the wheel.

Walking you light time from 12 hours to 10 hours through flower is a interesting idea. It can help some strains finish better. Thing is I have finished tons of plants with the basic 12 and 12 and nothing else. Getting tricky with light times can really help some long flowering sativas. Basic 12 and 12 will do fine and best for most hybrids on the market.

I have changed mine slightly this grow. Going with 12 hours tell after stretch is complete. Around week 6 I am dropping it to 11 hours. In a month I will drop it again to 10 hours till they finish. This is only a trial I need everything finished by a certain time so I figured I would give it a try.

 

[TheFertilizer]

From everything I have learned over time. Adding that extra hour of light then darkness again will cause more problems than it could solve. Interrupting the plant when it wants to do certain things is just asking for a hermy. Basic light schedules have worked for years.
Of course with more growing going on more people are going to want to do things their own way. Lots of people trying to reinvent the wheel.

Walking you light time from 12 hours to 10 hours through flower is a interesting idea. It can help some strains finish better. Thing is I have finished tons of plants with the basic 12 and 12 and nothing else. Getting tricky with light times can really help some long flowering sativas. Basic 12 and 12 will do fine and best for most hybrids on the market.

I have changed mine slightly this grow. Going with 12 hours tell after stretch is complete. Around week 6 I am dropping it to 11 hours. In a month I will drop it again to 10 hours till they finish. This is only a trial I need everything finished by a certain time so I figured I would give it a try.

Well the big thing I'm trying to avoid is blowing my fuse, because when that happens I can't turn the ballast for the lights back on right away even if I'm home to attend the fuse box. The ballast has some kind of "safety feature" that keeps it from firing back on for a few minutes. It seems like 15 mins is the lowest interval, and so that means if the fuse pops, my lights have to take a 15 minute interruption in their light cycle. Not to mention it screws up my timers because with no power in the wall, they stop moving.

I'm just not sure the GLR light schedule will really protect me from overloading that much. The T5 is only 200 watts so if the CMH does kick on while its operating I don't know how much it will effect the load. I'm thinking it's more important to delay the firing of the ballast until the circuits are as cold as possible, since the CMH firing can use much more than its actual operating draw.

It's interesting looking at my weather data, the coolest points in the day are actually around 9 AM to 10 AM in the morning. But if I turned the CMH on at that point for 12 hours, I'd also be operating at the hottest temperatures of the day. On the other hand, in the early morning arounds (2-4 A.M.) the temperatures have dropped significantly, and if I turn the light on for 12 hours at that point it will be off during the hottest hours ( 3-5 PM ).

 

[Jackalope]

I understand better now. Still have no real answers. I don't have breaker problems so I have never had to work around them. I have 2 different types of wiring though. I run all my systems from the newer part for safety. It also has me on better breakers.

So I have heavy duty extension cords running to each room. I have to find tricky ways to run them so It is not too noticeable. For me that is easy.

So my suggestion is to try and run a extension cord to one tent. With a little trickery you may be able to run it so it is not real noticeable.

You have to run extension cords with no resistance. You probably know this but others may not. Wire size is everything. You don't want a smaller gauge wire size in between 2 larger gauge wire. This creates resistance when the larger wire goes into the smaller ones. This will create a hotspot at the connecting points. It is best to run one cord all the way from the outlet to the light if possible. Lighter gauge wire between the outlet and the grow equipment can also create resistance in some cases. Pay extra for good heavy duty cables. Bigger around does not always mean heavier wire check wire gauge when buying. Don't forget heavy duty surge protectors. They can create resistance too. I check all wires and any connections constantly before being sure it wont heat up. You will be able to feel any heat build up pretty easy. Connections shouldn't even get warm when in use. Resistance creates heat. Discolored cords and connections will show you where you have problems.