Denver Worker Blames Medical Pot For Accident

[Jim Finnel]

A civilian worker in Denver's Department of Safety is claiming his status as a medical marijuana user should exempt him from discipline after getting into an on-duty automobile accident.

"I am aware of the case," said Denver City Attorney David Fine when contacted by CBS4. "It raises a lot of interesting and complicated questions."

He and other city officials confirmed the basic circumstances of the case but declined to identify the employee, his job title or discuss details of the case.

According to city officials contacted by CBS4 the accident occurred in December. The city worker was on duty and driving a city vehicle when he was involved in an accident.

Per city policy, he was immediately given a drug and alcohol test after the wreck. That test came back positive.

The city worker explained the results of the test by claiming status as a medical marijuana patient, presumably thinking that might exempt him from disciplinary action.

"I know the case exists," said Manager of Safety Al LaCabe. "But does he have a defense? We're discussing it now."

Emily Hobbs-Wright, a Denver attorney specializing in employment law, suggests medical marijuana status probably won't shield the worker from discipline.

"The fact that he carries a medical marijuana card will not create rights," Hobbs-Wright said.

The city has an executive order that went into effect in 2002 that addresses alcohol and drug usage in the workplace but it does not specifically address medical marijuana. Hobbs-Wright said a key legal issue will be the employee's level of impairment due to marijuana consumption.

"What constitutes marijuana impairment at work is something that employers will have to determine relying on relevant medical standards," said Hobbs-Wright.

The attorney said that this type of issue has been ruled on by courts in other states.

"Generally they've gone in favor of the employer in upholding the employer's policies both prohibiting trace amounts of marijuana in the employee's system and impairment," said Hobbs-Wright.

She said employers and courts view medical marijuana the same way they view other prescription drugs: they may be legal, but that doesn't mean you can be impaired by them while on the job.

Fine said his staff is carefully scrutinizing this case as they suspect others will follow.

"We want to make sure we get it right. Our analysis of this is going to be very careful," said Fine.

The city attorney's office will likely make a recommendation to LaCabe in the next few weeks on how to handle the case.


NewsHawk: User: 420 Magazine - Cannabis Culture News & Reviews
Source: cbs4denver.com
Author: Brian Maass
Copyright: 2010 CBS Television Stations Inc.
Contact: Contact CBS4 - cbs4denver.com
Website: Denver Worker Blames Medical Pot For Accident - cbs4denver.com

 

[ecoins]

Oh well, then maybe he should go back to drinking Alcohol instead of smoking that dangerous drug..weed. That'll keep him safer.
More people do stupid things on weed, but thank god they can be smart and go back to drinking....
I'm being sarcastic for those whom don't understand.

A civilian worker in Denver's Department of Safety is claiming his status as a medical marijuana user should exempt him from discipline after getting into an on-duty automobile accident.

"I am aware of the case," said Denver City Attorney David Fine when contacted by CBS4. "It raises a lot of interesting and complicated questions."

He and other city officials confirmed the basic circumstances of the case but declined to identify the employee, his job title or discuss details of the case.

According to city officials contacted by CBS4 the accident occurred in December. The city worker was on duty and driving a city vehicle when he was involved in an accident.

Per city policy, he was immediately given a drug and alcohol test after the wreck. That test came back positive.

The city worker explained the results of the test by claiming status as a medical marijuana patient, presumably thinking that might exempt him from disciplinary action.

"I know the case exists," said Manager of Safety Al LaCabe. "But does he have a defense? We're discussing it now."

Emily Hobbs-Wright, a Denver attorney specializing in employment law, suggests medical marijuana status probably won't shield the worker from discipline.

"The fact that he carries a medical marijuana card will not create rights," Hobbs-Wright said.

The city has an executive order that went into effect in 2002 that addresses alcohol and drug usage in the workplace but it does not specifically address medical marijuana. Hobbs-Wright said a key legal issue will be the employee's level of impairment due to marijuana consumption.

"What constitutes marijuana impairment at work is something that employers will have to determine relying on relevant medical standards," said Hobbs-Wright.

The attorney said that this type of issue has been ruled on by courts in other states.

"Generally they've gone in favor of the employer in upholding the employer's policies both prohibiting trace amounts of marijuana in the employee's system and impairment," said Hobbs-Wright.

She said employers and courts view medical marijuana the same way they view other prescription drugs: they may be legal, but that doesn't mean you can be impaired by them while on the job.

Fine said his staff is carefully scrutinizing this case as they suspect others will follow.

"We want to make sure we get it right. Our analysis of this is going to be very careful," said Fine.

The city attorney's office will likely make a recommendation to LaCabe in the next few weeks on how to handle the case.


NewsHawk: User: 420 Magazine - Cannabis Culture News & Reviews
Source: cbs4denver.com
Author: Brian Maass
Copyright: 2010 CBS Television Stations Inc.
Contact: Contact CBS4 - cbs4denver.com
Website: Denver Worker Blames Medical Pot For Accident - cbs4denver.com

 

[Druidess 52]

This issue is going to become more and more prevalent. Whether it's pre-hire, random or after an accident....what are the rights of the med user? I know one of the problems is that, at the moment, there is no test that they can administer that says when the marijuana was ingested, whether eaten or smoked, like they can with alcohol. I have friends that have asked their employer what their company's policy was...and most of em here have said their employer would be ok with it, if they had a card. But...NOT ON THE JOB. I have another friend whose company had a company meeting where it was announced that any use on the job would mean immediate termination, whether med or not, but for those that had a card, the company would ignore a positive test. At least this company made the rules known and if ya got caught on the job...it was on you. I think if I could not get thru the workday without toking, I wouldn't go to work, just as if I was taking another drug that adversely affected me. However, I see no problem with edibles on the job....just my .02 cents. I think these companies are looking to save their bacon as well. With it all being so new, what if an employee was taking his legal meds at lunch and then got in an accident...the vehicle smells of pot...would the company be liable if the person had a license? There are alot of issues that have yet to be thought thru and this is one of them...we all gott remember that, at this time, we need to pick the "Right" fights.

I understand and support everything you are saying, MHD; and I would add my few thoughts (before I forget them).


1. Ya know, if you get high on anything at work, you are not thinking clearly. I take Ativan for my panic disorder. My attitude is, "If I have a panic attack at work, so be it." I cannot risk losing my job. Thus, I don't take anything at work stronger than Diet Coke.

2. Then again, if you get drug tested everytime you screw up at work, WTF? Because even if you don't smoke during work hours, if you get tested willy nilly, you're screwed.

This is a toughie. For me, I haven't even gotten a scrip for herbal meds, much less the CA State card. I'm a county worker. I do have HIPAA rights; however, if the County higher powers knew I had a scrip for pot, they'd find some other facackta reason to can me.

What's a patient to do?

 

[Caber1]

The first question should be "did you indulge on the job"?

That I consider a no no. Especially if it entails driving or operating heavy equipment etc.
]It is the responsibility of the worker in my opinion to know when his medication is going to affect the task at hand. If he is moving boxes or some sort of other mundane job then it's not quite as big a deal.
If he didn't indulge at work then we should be asking if the drug test can show if the cannabinoids in his system were active or not.

 

[Irish]

"Denver Worker Blames Medical Pot For Accident."

Really.

A civilian worker in Denver's Department of Safety is claiming his status as a medical marijuana user should exempt him from discipline after getting into an on-duty automobile accident.

Alright. That sounds straightforward enough.

The city worker explained the results of the test by claiming status as a medical marijuana patient, presumably thinking that might exempt him from disciplinary action.

Now watch the spin....they only know that he said that he tested positive for cannabis because he is an mmj patient, not because he had smoked up at work, nor did the writer posit the fact that it takes at least 30 days for cannabis to filter from the system, while it's "high" lasts only a few hours. Of course the reporter doesn't include this informative snippet for an intelligent read, just focuses on the city worker's thought that his patient status might exempt him from disciplinary action. But nowhere, NOWHERE DOES IT STATE THAT HE BLAMED HIS MMJ PATIENT STATUS FOR THE ACCIDENT.

Sorry for writing in bold, but for Pete's sake, this is exactly how a reporter sensationalizes an article, coloring the issue with implied irresponsible illicit/recreational drug use as revealed by the required drug test, and then blatantly lying in the title of the article about how the city worker admitted that his use of mmj caused the accident.

This is how lies become the truth, people, and how mindsets are created and fed.

It seems that the city at least may be careful about how they handle it, and that's the only thing that counterbalances the story--in what appears to be a spin on how careful the city is and how dufus its worker. It's all undertones....but very effective ones. It forms public opinion based on the reporter's tones and suppositions, no matter how ambiguous, instead of being totally impartial and truth-based.

I hope Denver isn't pressed by this article to treat the worker like a drug abuser or mindless stoner, and uses good sense in determining if the worker was unimpaired or heavily under the influence on the job at the time of the accident.

 

[Jim Finnel]

^ i almost didn't post this article but i knew i could trust ya'll to see through the b.s., you always do.

 

[Irish]

Yea...but this site is not here to promote "SAFER'S" agenda. I love how the SAFER folks put their spin on things. Personally I think. like alcohol, POT should be off-limits on the job. We are sll supposed to be adults here, and as adults, we need to take responsiblity for our actions. Being responsible means following the rules that your employer sets forth....and if ya don't like it, find a job that has rules you can comply with. I know several business owners that partake, but they have rules about partaking on the job, so they also, leave the weed at home when working.

I'm a little at odds with your opinion on this one, Dave. Cannabis and alcohol are not equal, and it is an error in judgment to lump the two together as if all cannabis does is impair someone's sound judgment and motor skills. It can do that if one over-indulges beyond one's ability to cope, especially with an indica, but the majority of people who love their jobs and are responsible in their duties do not need a pseudo-parental figure to tell them they cannot be under the influence at work. If their job performance lacks, they get let go. Pretty simple. Add the stipulation that no one on the job may be under the influence, and some of the best workers may be lost to that random drug test, whether it is able to indicate current influence or past use.

Let me tell you a little story. I started into electronics as a C-grade assembler, jumped to mil-spec assembly within a month of starting, went to the test bench and became a tester a couple of months after that, became a troubleshooter a few weeks after that, and after a year being a troubleshooter, went into engineering to redesign the units I started building just a year and a half before--all under the influence of cannabis, and without ever stepping foot inside the halls of higher learning for a degree in electronics. I can't begin to tell you how much cannabis helped me focus and learn the sheer volume of knowledge needed in order to design and build computer power supplies (my model went into Intel computers back in the early 80's). I can't tell you the times that I'd be going in circles trying to find the problems on a circuit board, only to go out at break, smoke a fattie, and then go back in to find the problem within 5-10 minutes of thinking out of the box. You can't tell me that cannabis impairs my work. It can, if I use it foolishly and mindlessly. But I'm intelligent enough to know what works for me and what doesn't, and I don't need anyone setting an edict on when and where and how I use my medicine. Let my work ethics, my ability to do my job, and my job performance be the reasons for my employment or unemployment, not another arbitrary rule that imposes restrictions on my personal freedoms.

 

[Irish]

That's the problem...it can, just like perscription drugs and not everyone is as responsible as you are. And if you are using it recreationally and not for medication....I do consider it like alcohol and, if I were the employer, I'd fire em too. There is a time and place for everything. At work, I am being paid to work, not get high (whether with pot or alcohol). If it's needed as a medication, I think for on the job purposes, it should probably be in edible form. You have valid points, and medical use on the job is a very sticky issue...especially since there is no known test that tells how long ago one consumed. Pot is "mind-altering" and has different effects on different people...and, sometimes, we have to look at the whole picture, not just how it affects us. Do you want your kids being driven to school by someone taking any drug that could afffect their ability to avoid an accident? I would hope not!

Again, you are looking at it as if everyone has got to be controlled lest the world fall apart. No, I would not want some inebriated fool driving my grandkids to school, and I would HOPE that the school district is wise enough to hire a responsible driver. Rules and laws that restrict one's freedom of choice take away our autonomy, it does not prevent the fool from doing the stupid.

Edibles? I would in no way advise edibles in a work situation--the resultant "high" takes too long to bloom and one cannot tell if one has over-indulged until it is blatantly obvious. Smoking or vaping, it's instant. You can attain just the right amount of medicinal effect and stop, but you sure can't do that with edibles, and the edible "high" seems, at least to me, more narcotic than any effect experienced when inhaled.

 

[Irish]

You sir, get high to get high, I use it as a medication.

And upon what evidence do you base your accusation that I am a man that gets high to get high? And why do you revert to mindless aggressiveness when your ideas are countered? Are you not equipped for a friendly and sensible debate? Are you not open to truth, or are you so entwined in your own agenda that you are unable to see and accept truth when it is presented to you?

Who are you, really? I may never know, but I will surely not label you without first knowing the truth of who you are--and that won't be achieved by being told that you eat pancakes with cannabutter for breakfast...anyone can lie in print. They do it all the time in the newspaper.

If you cannot debate the topic without getting angry and aggressive, it might be best if you keep your fingers and thoughts off of the keyboard altogether. It says waaay more about you than you think....and none of it's good.

 

[FreakNature]

Thanks Irish, for saying everything I would have said to MileHiDave. My use at work mirrors your own. I agree, medibles at work could have been disastrous. Sometimes it's out of control at home. However, a toke in the morning and a toke at noon starting at 6:30 AM for a 10-12 hour day designing and documenting work for one of the highest-tech industries in the world helped me reach the top of my field with a 6 digit income. The way you described the benefits are exactly my experience. My employers and customers were extremely happy with my work and seemed genuinely sorry to see me go when I decided to do something else.

As far as the Medical user in the original post, the person used Cannabis as an excuse. If you're careless it doesn't matter if you're drunk, stoned, or straight as an arrow - you can have safety problems no matter what you do. My experience puts alcohol as the least safe and Cannabis use as the safest of those three options.

I started out getting high when I was younger, but, while I enjoy euphoria and many unexpected side benefits, my use is now strictly medicinal.

Cannabis use at work shouldn't be a concern of employers any more than taking an aspirin. If someone can't or won't do the job, they should be let go. How many times did I sit at my desk working my a$$ off meeting company deadlines while drinkers and sober people would stand around and talk about cars or golf or any other thing that kept them away from their job. Thankfully my efforts toward the company's success were rewarded by my employers with excellent pay, profit sharing, bonuses, performance pay, stock options, and increasing levels of responsibility.

 

[Medifreddie]

I'm a little at odds with your opinion on this one, Dave. Cannabis and alcohol are not equal, and it is an error in judgment to lump the two together as if all cannabis does is impair someone's sound judgment and motor skills. It can do that if one over-indulges beyond one's ability to cope, especially with an indica, but the majority of people who love their jobs and are responsible in their duties do not need a pseudo-parental figure to tell them they cannot be under the influence at work. If their job performance lacks, they get let go. Pretty simple. Add the stipulation that no one on the job may be under the influence, and some of the best workers may be lost to that random drug test, whether it is able to indicate current influence or past use.

Let me tell you a little story. I started into electronics as a C-grade assembler, jumped to mil-spec assembly within a month of starting, went to the test bench and became a tester a couple of months after that, became a troubleshooter a few weeks after that, and after a year being a troubleshooter, went into engineering to redesign the units I started building just a year and a half before--all under the influence of cannabis, and without ever stepping foot inside the halls of higher learning for a degree in electronics. I can't begin to tell you how much cannabis helped me focus and learn the sheer volume of knowledge needed in order to design and build computer power supplies (my model went into Intel computers back in the early 80's). I can't tell you the times that I'd be going in circles trying to find the problems on a circuit board, only to go out at break, smoke a fattie, and then go back in to find the problem within 5-10 minutes of thinking out of the box. You can't tell me that cannabis impairs my work. It can, if I use it foolishly and mindlessly. But I'm intelligent enough to know what works for me and what doesn't, and I don't need anyone setting an edict on when and where and how I use my medicine. Let my work ethics, my ability to do my job, and my job performance be the reasons for my employment or unemployment, not another arbitrary rule that imposes restrictions on my personal freedoms.

Irish, my revered & much respected orchard lassie: Your "story" is to be commended as are you. However, you are only plowing one end of field. Yes, I suppose one can medicate and play with little microchips without risk of real disaster other than Mr/Mrs Consumer saying "Hey, why doesnt this piece of crap work?" Just a little electronics assembly humor here.

But, the other end of the field would be my profession. Construction, where there exists implements of destruction, giant pieces of machinery and things that can run you over without so much of an indication you were ever there, before or after. Imagine if you will, a construction crane lifting 20 tons of I-beam steel 20 stories in the air in high winds and you are standing on a 6 inch cross beam while the load is being slung everywhere but where you are because the crane operator, 200 ft below, after eating his baloney & cheese sandwich for lunch, deemed it necessary to medicate because of chronic back pain.

Or, Officer Leo, who just minutes after doin a little a little pain relieving okie-tokie in the front seat of his squad car, gets into a high speed pursuit with a bad guy-type dude. Now do you really want the now medicated Officer Leo chasing bad guys thru your neighborhood, driving now what can only be described as a weapon on wheels?

I could go on but the point is made. The unfortunate reality at present is, if you have a legal prescription for let's say, Vicodin, and you accidently run a fellow worker over with the company forklift, chances are pretty good you'll be forgiven because weve been taught that prescription drugs are good and acceptable as long as you dont fall asleep while driving etc. But, smoke your fattie, kill or maime someone and your world will surely turn to workplace horse dukey.

In my world(construction), the standard insurance company policy is if you are involved in an accident, you will be drug tested. Given even the slightest degree of injury, you will literally be escorted to the nearest medical center and while, God forbid, the doctors are attempting to sew your leg back on, you will be drug tested. If MJ is found in your system, it's your bad. However, most companies have a 3 strike policy: 1st- a warning, 2nd- 2 month mandatory attendance in an approved "rehabilitation program (yes, rehabilitation LOL) and 3 strikes, pack your tool bag, youre gone. Our major gripe with the MJ drug testing policy was, as Dave mentioned, the testing procedures didnt have and still dont have a precise way of determining WHEN you medicated. It could have been a week before the accident.

So what's my point? We cant have our cake and smoke it too. We have to accept the fact the medicating cant be condoned in EVERY work place. How do we decide which are acceptable and those that arent? That wont be up to us as medicators. The insurance companies will take care of that for us, like it or not and we probably wont. I imagine the city of Denver, as we speak is lawyering up because their insurance company is most likely saying, "What, pay for the accident when toker Johnny was higher than a kite? We dont think so."

Yes, we have medical marijuana but the truth is, we still have a long ways to go. It's like ironing a shirt. Ya just gotta take it, one wrinkle at a time... MF

 

[Irish]

LABEL? "Edibles? Do you really use mmj or are you a non-smoking LEO trolling for information?"

nobody is angry here, or agressive...seems to me you are the one labeling and name-calling! I am just having what I thought was a 'friendly' debate. Look, bottom line is, we see eye to eye on probaly 90% of this issue...this is just the 10% we don't agree on...

Nope. Didn't call you a name.. Not the same thing as you saying, "You sir, get high to get high."

It's hard to read words without voice, tones, inflections and body language to clarify one's meaning, and I do not wish to misunderstand you. At the same time, it is really hard to keep hearing the redundancy of your convictions that cannabis impairs someone to the point that they cannot work safely, smartly, and efficiently under the influence and no amount of empirical or scientific evidence seems to make a difference to you, nor do you want to hear anything that counters your viewpoint, even if it is true. It is as if you've never smoked cannabis that did anything other than set you into couchlock and a stoned stupor, which speaks of your overall experience with the medicine that appears to be very, ummmm, limited.

The ignorant are in no position to draft a law concerning cannabis use. Government, employers, et. al., generally have no comprehensive understanding of the effects of different strains and varieties of marijuana. Without such intimate knowledge, terrible mistakes can and are being made in the name of fear--EDUCATE FIRST, THEN IF IT'S NEEDED, REGULATE. Without knowledge, the rules and opinions of the ignorant do nothing but hurt people in the end. Does that 10% of your belief system wish that it would? No need to answer that, but to yourself, and honestly....

 

[Irish]

Irish, my revered & much respected orchard lassie: Your "story" is to be commended as are you. However, you are only plowing one end of field. Yes, I suppose one can medicate and play with little microchips without risk of real disaster other than Mr/Mrs Consumer saying "Hey, why doesnt this piece of crap work?" Just a little electronics assembly humor here.

But, the other end of the field would be my profession. Construction, where there exists implements of destruction, giant pieces of machinery and things that can run you over without so much of an indication you were ever there, before or after. Imagine if you will, a construction crane lifting 20 tons of I-beam steel 20 stories in the air in high winds and you are standing on a 6 inch cross beam while the load is being slung everywhere but where you are because the crane operator, 200 ft below, after eating his baloney & cheese sandwich for lunch, deemed it necessary to medicate because of chronic back pain.

Or, Officer Leo, who just minutes after doin a little a little pain relieving okie-tokie in the front seat of his squad car, gets into a high speed pursuit with a bad guy-type dude. Now do you really want the now medicated Officer Leo chasing bad guys thru your neighborhood, driving now what can only be described as a weapon on wheels?

I could go on but the point is made. The unfortunate reality at present is, if you have a legal prescription for let's say, Vicodin, and you accidently run a fellow worker over with the company forklift, chances are pretty good you'll be forgiven because weve been taught that prescription drugs are good and acceptable as long as you dont fall asleep while driving etc. But, smoke your fattie, kill or maime someone and your world will surely turn to workplace horse dukey.

In my world(construction), the standard insurance company policy is if you are involved in an accident, you will be drug tested. Given even the slightest degree of injury, you will literally be escorted to the nearest medical center and while, God forbid, the doctors are attempting to sew your leg back on, you will be drug tested. If MJ is found in your system, it's your bad. However, most companies have a 3 strike policy: 1st- a warning, 2nd- 2 month mandatory attendance in an approved "rehabilitation program (yes, rehabilitation LOL) and 3 strikes, pack your tool bag, youre gone. Our major gripe with the MJ drug testing policy was, as Dave mentioned, the testing procedures didnt have and still dont have a precise way of determining WHEN you medicated. It could have been a week before the accident.

So what's my point? We cant have our cake and smoke it too. We have to accept the fact the medicating cant be condoned in EVERY work place. How do we decide which are acceptable and those that arent? That wont be up to us as medicators. The insurance companies will take care of that for us, like it or not and we probably wont. I imagine the city of Denver, as we speak is lawyering up because their insurance company is most likely saying, "What, pay for the accident when toker Johnny was higher than a kite? We dont think so."

Yes, we have medical marijuana but the truth is, we still have a long ways to go. It's like ironing a shirt. Ya just gotta take it, one wrinkle at a time... MF

LOL! Hi Freddie. This is kinda like that long friendly debate we got into last time you were here (regulate vs not regulate), and though I respect both your and Dave's viewpoints, from MY point of view, you are still missing the foremost fact of human nature in relation to cannabis use at the workplace--only fools do the stupid.

Are we really a whole society of fools? Do we really need a government replacement for our parents once we've grown up? Do we really need to be policed? For all that is holy, what is wrong with that picture? You're both assuming that stoners have no morals and no brains, and that couldn't be further from the truth and is a direct result of reefer madness on a grand scale!

I know you are no fool, and would not do the stupid when you're working in construction. IF someone is a fool, then they should not be hired to begin with. And as far as your comment about the relative safety of working in electronics, I don't suppose you've ever been electrocuted? I do believe that is just as deadly as being crushed under that steel girder or front loader or tractor or rock or....it can go on and on, but do you see my point? Making rules and regulations ignorantly just won't keep people safe, but it'll cost good people their reputations and livelihoods even if they do nothing wrong.

You know me--I'm that Pollyanna that believes that she should have her cake and smoke it too. Because I am responsible, intelligent, and honest, not because I smoke or ingest cannabis until I'm a pool of fleshly pudding pooling on the floor.....

 

[Irish]

You sir, are locked into your position, as am I...as for the insinuation that my cannabis knowledge is limited....you don't know me, so you have no idea what my knowledge is...but to give you a very small glimpse...I am 50 (just turned in Oct) and I have been using cannabis since I was approx 14. In fact, my first experience was with hash, as my father was in the military and we were in Germany. In 1983, I was charged with a felony for growing cannabis (plead to a misdemeanor) and I am currently very involved in the Medical Marijuana Community here in Denver. Should you ever come out here, I would gladly give you a tour!

You're right, I don't know you. I just know what you write. What you write builds an image of who you are. Can't be helped.

Small glimpse of me in return for your cameo--I'm 55 years old, mother of two, grandmother of 6 beautiful grandchildren and a disabled professional. I've used cannabis since I was young. I grow a decent garden and have for the last 36 years, self-medicate for several different conditions, and I make it my business to cultivate strains that most directly treat those conditions. And yes, at times I use recreationally, and sample all kinds of different strains for their medicinal properties, to better understand the plant and it's effect on the mind and body. I do not smoke myself to stupidity, ever.

 

[Irish]

[/COLOR]

You must remember...we are not only talking about you. Yes, you may be all of the above, but as you well know, not everyone is "responsible, intelligent, and honest"...and I, for one...on this issue, prefer to err on the side of caution!

Yes, not everyone is responsible, intelligent and honest, but it is up to the employer to hire responsible, intelligent, honest people to work for him/her. Rules and regs won't prevent mistakes or accidents. Adequate background checks and intelligent ethical employee selection will. Err on the side of truth and you won't go wrong. Err on the side of irrational fear, and people can and will get hurt.

 

[Irish]

Awesome!...I'll PM you my personal email. I luv Estes! It's nice to see someone who does actually medicate with the right medicine for their ailments. Tis the reason I do consume edibles...for their narcotic effect...beats the narcotics in pill form they want me to take...without stopping me up...if you know what I mean. I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. It seems we are both passionate for what we believe in!!

Yes we are, if anything, passionate about what we believe in! *LOL* Friends, then? Do PM. Didn't mean to get off on the wrong foot either, but I'll never back down while I'm protectively clutching the truth to my breast, unless it is definitively proven a falsehood.... Must be the Irish in me.

 

[Irish]

Thanks Irish, for saying everything I would have said to MileHiDave. My use at work mirrors your own. I agree, medibles at work could have been disastrous. Sometimes it's out of control at home. However, a toke in the morning and a toke at noon starting at 6:30 AM for a 10-12 hour day designing and documenting work for one of the highest-tech industries in the world helped me reach the top of my field with a 6 digit income. The way you described the benefits are exactly my experience. My employers and customers were extremely happy with my work and seemed genuinely sorry to see me go when I decided to do something else.

As far as the Medical user in the original post, the person used Cannabis as an excuse. If you're careless it doesn't matter if you're drunk, stoned, or straight as an arrow - you can have safety problems no matter what you do. My experience puts alcohol as the least safe and Cannabis use as the safest of those three options.

I started out getting high when I was younger, but, while I enjoy euphoria and many unexpected side benefits, my use is now strictly medicinal.

Cannabis use at work shouldn't be a concern of employers any more than taking an aspirin. If someone can't or won't do the job, they should be let go. How many times did I sit at my desk working my a$$ off meeting company deadlines while drinkers and sober people would stand around and talk about cars or golf or any other thing that kept them away from their job. Thankfully my efforts toward the company's success were rewarded by my employers with excellent pay, profit sharing, bonuses, performance pay, stock options, and increasing levels of responsibility.

Oh I'm so glad I'm not alone here...thanks for relating your story! There are lots of us, we just aren't recognized because we don't fit the stereotype.

And just for the record, what do you suppose would have happened had you taken a random drug test and they found that you had thc in your system?

I know what would have happened had it been an issue back then with me--6 years of exceptional work down the tubes. They, too, hated to see me leave, though they admittedly didn't pay me what I was worth. I was the first woman in that industry to climb that ladder, and the only person that did it the way that I did, and the only reason I didn't make as large a wage as the college graduates that I trained to replace me was because I didn't have that piece of paper called a degree in engineering--a technicality that apparently couldn't be overcome.

Not a big deal, really. I was ready to leave and set out on my entrepreneurial legs anyway. The severance package was to die for and I was set. But it would have really hurt if I had lost that job due to a random drug test and relied upon conventional employment to make my future living....

 

[FreakNature]

For the record - I'm also 50 and started young. Irish - if they forced me to do a random test I would have begged off if possible so I could flush my system. Barring that, I would have taken the test and then appealed to their common sense. If that didn't work I would have walked away, leaving behind over a decade of dedication. This is the problem with the war on people, especially with respect to Cannabis. My reviews were usually all 5 out of 5 in every category - "best in the group", but a random test could have ended it all.

I have to take a side in this, and it's not Cannabis that makes people stupid or careless. Some people are just that way. Personally I drive more safely, skateboard better, bike better, play frisbee better, ski better...in fact any physical activity I do is improved by Cannabis use. I can do more and do it better because my mind is free, my body follows, and my focus is precision. I don't think a plant that is not only harmless, but is so beneficial in so many ways, should be painted as something that is unsafe. It's just wrong in my opinion. While I appreciate people's efforts to get Cannabis legalized for medical use, I'm a proponent of complete legalization without any restraints or controls by anyone.

 

[FreakNature]

A study by Donald Tashkin at UCLA says that there is no increase in cancer from smoking Cannabis.

Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection - washingtonpost.com

The fact is if the kids want to they will still do it, whether it's legal or not, and whether parents give permission or not. That's more an issue of effective parenting than dangers of the plant. Riding a bike, driving a car, skiing, stepping out of a bathtub are all more dangerous. Taxing and regulating sets up the framework which allows people to make money, whether through federal or retail outlets, off of something that should be free.

 

[Irish]

Now, that is something we agree on...there is NO test that tells them when you medicated, so even if I medicated this AM (Which I did) and I got pulled over this evening, there is nothing that they can do to when I partook. In my case it would probably have been just before I left the house, lol. I also believe in my right not to self-incriminate and giving them a sample of anything is against my principles. I will not give them the ammo to beat me.

Drug testing for pot is going to have to really advance. Thank good I am not looking for work! Although, when I went to work for the last company, I asked if they tested and told em I was a med user, the owner took me aside and said he had no problem since I had the license, but he would "appreciate" my keeping it away from the workplace...I had no problem with that...and I knew the "rules" going in.

And that is the reason why I think drug testing for cannabis is a bad idea--being open and truthful and having an understanding is far better than dropping a bomb on someone that is otherwise doing an exemplary job. There is no need to test--if the person is not working out for whatever reason, it's time to split the sheets, cannabis use or no cannabis use.

For the record - I'm also 50 and started young. Irish - if they forced me to do a random test I would have begged off if possible so I could flush my system. Barring that, I would have taken the test and then appealed to their common sense. If that didn't work I would have walked away, leaving behind over a decade of dedication. This is the problem with the war on people, especially with respect to Cannabis. My reviews were usually all 5 out of 5 in every category - "best in the group", but a random test could have ended it all.

I have to take a side in this, and it's not Cannabis that makes people stupid or careless. Some people are just that way. Personally I drive more safely, skateboard better, bike better, play frisbee better, ski better...in fact any physical activity I do is improved by Cannabis use. I can do more and do it better because my mind is free, my body follows, and my focus is precision. I don't think a plant that is not only harmless, but is so beneficial in so many ways, should be painted as something that is unsafe. It's just wrong in my opinion. While I appreciate people's efforts to get Cannabis legalized for medical use, I'm a proponent of complete legalization without any restraints or controls by anyone.

That one line up there in green says it as succinctly as it can get--this is exactly the experience I get with the sativas/sativa-hybrids in my garden and the wonderful smoke from yesteryear that saw me through the electronics field. I am guilty of imbibing at work--does that make me, or you, or anyone a criminal if it enhances our ability to do our best work? That laser focus can create an outpouring of creative genius that in some way may be blocked by parts of an individuals psyche. Look at the artists in the entertainment industry. Amazing things to wow us all with, that may not have been if minds had not been opened to the possibilities and the flow of things.

I too am a proponent of complete legalization without any restraints or controls by anyone. How else are we to develop strains with specific and reliable effects from harvest to harvest if we cannot have the freedom to experiment and experience? How are we to find the right variety and then have a reliable, safe supply for our uses? There is so much to learn about this plant, this wonderful herb that can help us so much if we just let her.

Withour restraints? So it can be sold like candy in a store? I won't go that far. i think it should be taxed and regulated the same as alcohol and tobacco. No matter what anyone tells you, if you smoke and inhale, you are taking in carcinogens, which is not healthy, and I think that is a decision for an adult to make, not a child under 18...

Like candy in a store would be an opposite and equal extreme to the prohibition of the last 70 years, but that's a bit of a stretch from what I envision. As far as children under 18 go, I think parents and their doctors are the people that should decide for them, not some government entity that doesn't even know them personally. Did you know that children with ADD treated with cannabis do better than on ritalin? Studies done, kids helped. Prohibition has held us back for decades, why extend the insult by mindless regulation?