Deviating from manufacturers nutrient schedule - Soil

[ScienceGrow]

I've started using a JR Peters product, Jacks Classic Bloom Booster, a 1/3/2 ratio (labeled 10/30/20) with nice micro nutrient balance.

This calls for a dose of 1 Tablespoon/gallon, every 7-14 days.

Yet I see a lot of people using 1 Teaspoon /gallon at every feeding.

Most likely these end up being about the same amount of nutrients, assuming I go with the 7 day schedule. 3tsp = 1Tbsp.

My question is, is there any benefit to altering the feeding schedule?

I could assume the feeding schedule is designed more for ease of use than optimal use. This would explain the deviation well enough. But this company also seems to know what it's doing. I would think their recommendations should be close to optimal.

It's also easy to assume growers change the schedule due to the logical but often wrong conclusion that more is better. Is less nutirents at a higher frequency often better? I really don't know.

So, is there any solid science that would settle this? Are there any other factors to consider that would affect the optimal schedule? I water every 2-4 days, when dry an inch or so down in the soil.

Searching the forums turns up lots of contradicting anecdotes. I'm looking for a fact based answer, if possible.

 

[OldMedUser]

Re: Deviating from manufacturers nutrient schedule

High ScienceGrow

I don't follow any kind of manufacturers schedule or the directions on the bottle but use the nutes as the girls tell me to. This takes having a feel for your plants and a lot of practice. I personally feel that most of the schedules are there to make them more money getting users to toss out perfectly good nutes. Why do little clones just starting out in DWC need a fresh batch of nutes after one week when they've only drank a couple liters of water out of a 35L tub and the ppm hasn't dropped at all yet?

I'll start a tub at around 300ppm and once the clones are getting going good in a week or so bump up the ppm by adding more nutes to 500 or so then keep doing that until I get up to 1000 or so for vigorously growing plants. A week before I flip to 12/12 I'll add 1/4 strength bloom nutes and a half dose of Big Bud to prime the pump so to say. Depending on strain I'll have 14 - 1500ppm at that point but once stretch starts it can drop 200 or more/day. To keep the ppm high during stretch I'll add enough bloom nutes and BB to keep it up.

That bloom booster you have is fairly mild at 1-3-2 so 1Tbsp/gal seems pretty reasonable. Big Bud is 1-17-38 with 10% S plus a lot of amino acids not listed on the label due to labeling laws re: plant fertilizers. Those NPK #s denote the percentage of each nutrient in the mix.

Not terribly scientific but what I found works very well for me after 14 years of DWC. I use similar methodology with plants I grow in soilless mix.

I only use RO water for my plants regardless of method so if harder tap water is used then more frequent flushes or fresh batches of nutes in the tub are needed to get rid of mineral salts buildup from the poorer quality water.

L8r

 

[ScienceGrow]

First grow, so my plant whispering skills are still pretty green. I can see problems pretty easily, but I have nothing to compare to as far as plant is doing well, vs. plant is kicking ass. That'll just have to come with experience.

I should have made it clear to begin with, but my medium is soil. Thank you for the excellent answer, but I'm not sure I can apply it to my situation.

The reason I ask, is I see logic behind both schedules.

Feed consistently but at small amounts provides enough but not too much nutrients consistently. No break from nutrients.

Feed higher dose once or twice a month and the plant gets what it needs till its used up, and maybe has a few days of break from nutrients.

So, I guess the question becomes, do plants grow better when constantly fed nutrients, or do they enjoy benefits from a break from nutrients. Or do the different phases of growth benefit from some deviation too?

For instance, I would predict salt deposits forming more quickly when feeding each watering, vs 1-2 times a month. With several watering in between without nutrients, I'm kind of mini-flushing, or at least redisolving/diluting. This seems possibly beneficial. It also explains the calls for periodic flushing when feeding every watering.

Any science on this? Or a comparison grow? If not, I'll make this a testing parameter in my next grow.

Edit: I've emailed JR Peters to see what they have to say about this. Based on their blog, they stick to their own schedule, at least when growing tomatoes.

 

[OldMedUser]

You're best to have a steady supply of nutrients for the best growth. As a rule of thumb I feed every 2nd watering for my girls in pots. 1/4 strength for seedlings and small veg plants then 1/2 when they are getting a foot or so and bushy, 3/4 for faster veg growth then full on for a big fast growing plant. Once a plant needs water every 2 days it gets repotted to the next size up. Say a 1gal to a 2gal. By the time it starts needing water every 2 days again it's getting pretty big and the next pot will be 4gal which is where it will stay until she gets cropped.

I don't use dirt but soilless ProMix HP and hydro nutes to feed. I'm using AN Sensi Grow for veg and the Connoisseur for flowering. Both are pH perfect so I don't worry about pH anymore. And RO or distilled water only that has had an air stone going in it for at least 24 hours before use to have as much O₂ in the water as possible. I never flush the pots until a week or so before chopping unless I see signs of toxic salts buildup. Fan leaves going brown and crispy dry.

As a new grower you'd end up in trouble if you grew now at full throttle. Slow and steady wins the race and sitting down and hittin' a bowl of your first buds is like losing your cherry. You'll never forget it.

I still have fond memories of the scrawny Thai Stick bag seed buds I grew in '78. Took a few pics and here's one of some of those buds on the back cover of Ed Rosenthal's Marijuana Grower's Guide. I'd grown plants outside for years and smoked lots of leaves and tops but this was the first buds I ever got.

L8r

 

[ScienceGrow]

Thanks for the answers OldMedUser!

It looks like JR Peters agrees; consistent lower doses are recommended for professional growers. The printed feeding schedule is more for people who just want prettier plants but don't want to do a lot of work. Their words.

The main benefit, they said, was the listed dose provides potentially too much fertilizer up front with none left a few days to the next feeding. So, possible burn and then a nutrient shortage. Constant nutrients is a good thing, no need for downtime.

Further, the listed dose is MORE likely to have salt buildups as, being for the general public, soil may dry more often due to a bad watering schedule, causing salt formations.

This appears to be more a result of the grower than caused by the actual schedule. I imagine if the grower keeps an eye on things, both would work. But smaller more frequent feedings is frankly easier.

I actually decided to go with the advice before I got their reply, and fed a quarter dose last night when watering Alpha, my first plant. Check her out in my sig, she's begun flowering!

Another upside to more frequent feedings is I get more time learning the plant and can start to see how minor adjustments affect growth.

Wow, nice nostalgia. How have things changed, as far as recommendations and methods? I imagine some things have been drastic. For instance, why were buds not as prevalent as leaves for smoking? Were they just smaller, not worth smoking? I've read this a number of times about leaves being more common than buds, back in the day. This seems strange to me.

Anyway, thanks for the replies. You've got rep++.

 

[OldMedUser]

Thanks for the answers OldMedUser!

Wow, nice nostalgia. How have things changed, as far as recommendations and methods? I imagine some things have been drastic. For instance, why were buds not as prevalent as leaves for smoking? Were they just smaller, not worth smoking? I've read this a number of times about leaves being more common than buds, back in the day. This seems strange to me.

Prior to the time I grew those plants most of the pot was Mexican brick weed or "dirt pot" because it smelled like dirt. Was actually a decent sativa if you grew it out properly. The Mexicans would chop down all the completely seeded females, dry them in the sun and just jamb a kilo into a box and crank down a press on it to form a 1 kilo brick that was wrapped in brown paper then plastic. We could buy a brick for $200. When breaking these up you would take a good oz or more of thick stems out, cigarette butts sometimes and once even found a mummified mouse. Quality control was non-existent. lol

When bagging this stuff up for sale you just filled up the baggies by eye. Figuring 34 oz per kilo you would play around with 34 baggies until they all looked even. These were sold as lids, not ounces. Each one would be about 1/4 seeds by wt. Lots of fun flipping your pot up a tilted record album with a credit card or something to get all the seeds to roll out before rolling a joint. Exploding joints aren't as funny as exploding cigars are in the old movies.

I had been driving cab in Calgary, AB for a couple years at the time and had met a lot of dealers big and small. Some decent pot was showing up like the Thai stick, Maui Waui, Panamanian Red Hair and better Mexi Pot. Those were the four strains I grew in my 5 gal pails of dirt, gravel and dried sheep shit I got at my father-in-laws farm a couple hours north of Calgary. 8 pails worth. I got out of dealing lids and into moving serious weight for some pretty shady people. Very lucrative but with a lot of nose candy around all the time it didn't take long to blow the profits.

As to smoking leaves more than buds it was because leaves were easy to grow. The tips were the tasty bits and got you a better buzz than leaves but they worked a bit. Big fat bombers were the order of the day. I would pick a lot of fan leaves off those plants and toss them into a big bowl on my coffee table to dry out. Always had friends hanging out and they were free to dig out some dry stuff from the bottom and twist one up. Blasting big fatties, swilling beer and cranking out the tunes on my big Harmon Kardon stereo was a daily thing. Lot of good hash, acid and MDA in those days and we all indulged often.

The party seemed endless then but all good things come to pass and life gets in the way. Here's a bag of fresh Maui Waui buds that wowed my friends.

L8r