For lack of a better place to ask

[Hydroohio]

Hey all, i am new to the forum and New to hydroponic growing in general, and i can already bet i am gonna get picked on and teased a bit for the fact that i will NOT be growing Cannabis due to the fact that it currently is not legal in my state medically or otherwise and also the fact that i am not a cannabis user, i was in my youth but i assure you there was nothing "medical" about my use back them lol.

I do have some general questions that i do believe that most of you here can answer however because the plants that i DO plan to grow, are in fact very similar in both nutrient AND Lighting requirements. I have a pre built Hydro unit on the way to me.

In addition i have a grow tent coming to me as well. Here's a photo:

LED Wholesalers GYO1009 60-Inch x 48-Inch x 24-Inch Mylar Reflective Hydroponic Grow Tent

Sadly, i had a 300 dollar budget to get up and running, so for now, unless i get some samples in the mail from one or more of the nutrient manufacturers i have contacted, i will be using the nutes that come with the hydro system.

I mainly will be growing fruits and vegetable in my system along with some cooking herbs. So on to the questions!

First off involves lights. As of now i will be using the lights that come with the system and adding some clip on fixtures that i have on hand already with CFL bulbs in them until i can buy T-5 Lighting but that will not be till mid summer at the earliest.

So first question, the T5 fixture i am getting is 8x54 watts, 4ft long, it comes with standard "plant grow bulbs" which i am not sure on the quality of, i was wondering if switching the bulbs to these would be effective here are the photos of the bulbs and the fixture:

Amazon.com: Hydrofarm T5 Fluorescent Grow Lights - 4Ft/8-Tube Designer System (Grow Bulbs Included)

Amazon.com: Wave-Point Red Wave 54-Watt High Output T-5 Lamp: Ozbo

Amazon.com: Wave-Point Coral Wave 54-Watt High Output T-5 Lamp 420

The reason i ask, is all my research on plants and lighting says that plants only use light in the spectrum's between 380Nm to 520nm and between 610nm to 1000nm Or at least use those spectrum's most effectively.Those bulbs put out MOSTLY light that is limited to the growth and flowering spectrum's, but they are intended for saltwater reef tanks so they tend to have a higher Par output than normal bulbs, so anyone have any input on the bulbs being effective?

Also i have read conflicting information on watts per square foot, i have read that anywhere between 25 watts per square foot is optimal all the way up to 200 watts per square foot is optimal, anyone have any input on this?

Also, Since i am growing Only fruits and vegetables such as dwarf blueberry's and tomatoes, do i really need to pay the extra money for the specialized hydroponic nutrients or could i get away with using Miracle grow all purpose plant food?

As i said, the plants i am growing have VERY similar needs to cannabis, so you can advise me just like you would a new cannabis grower. Tomatoes,Peppers, Tobacco, and dwarf blue berries are all similar in need to cannabis.

Thanks in advance

 

[Hydroohio]

Re: For lack of a better place to ask lol

Also on the light bulbs, it says on the chart for that companies bulbs that the red wave bulb can be used for plants. I am assuming that the Coral wave can be as well since MOST of the light it produces is in the blue spectrum which if my research is correct is the best for the growth stage anyway. Please correct me if i am wrong, i want to be doing this right!I do plan on ordering 8 of each bulb so that i can run full blue in growth and full red in bloom unless that is not a good idea?

 

[Hydroohio]

Re: For lack of a better place to ask lol

Also just want to say that i DO support 100% legal cannabis, i personally do not feel that the government has the right to tell us what we can and cant put in our bodies!

 

[Hydroohio]

238 views and no one has any idea, wow i knew i was thinking outside the box on the lighting but i figured i wasn't the first to come up with the idea. Well i guess ill have to do a grow journal on the lights once i finally get the money for them and see how it goes lol.

 

[HydroManster]

If your growing fruits and veggies and your new to hydro or growing, the best thing would be to pick up a book or two on hydroponics. Learn the basics and go from there.

It is not that your thinking out side the box at all, it is just that what your doing does not pertain to growing medical mj which is what this forum is for.

There are plenty of "gardening" forums around that would be much more specific to what your doing.

Hang in there, I am sure some peeps will come along soon and offer there expert advice...lol

Cheers!

 

[Hydroohio]

If your growing fruits and veggies and your new to hydro or growing, the best thing would be to pick up a book or two on hydroponics. Learn the basics and go from there.

It is not that your thinking out side the box at all, it is just that what your doing does not pertain to growing medical mj which is what this forum is for.

There are plenty of "gardening" forums around that would be much more specific to what your doing.

Hang in there, I am sure some peeps will come along soon and offer there expert advice...lol

Cheers!

Well i have looked at various gardening forums and to be honest they all seem dirt focused.

 

[HydroManster]

Correct, you would want to look for a "hydroponic" gardening forum, they are plentiful. Youtube is also a decent source for general information as well.

The lights that you use is a straight forward deal for the most part. CFL's are ok but do not penetrate like a HID which means you must keep CFL's VERY close to ALL parts of the plant which in some cases can be tricky to do.

You could also venture into the world of LED's.

A full spectrum is always better, but then again I would not concentrate on these type details until you learn the basics first.

Your environment is the most important aspect.

The water that you use is also very important so you should make sure and arrange for a decent source.

Your grow space should have plenty of ventilation and air flow. Temperature and humidity are also very important and the space you use should have this in mind.

I would also keep in mind that medical mj comes from a very unique plant that is not like any other plant. It would not really be all that wise to assume if it is "ok" or good for a tomato plant that it is ok for mj. I certainly would not be giving a bell pepper plant anywhere near the same thing as I would be giving a mj plant. Sure you could argue that ALL plants are the same and they are at certain areas. We are MORE than 95% like a monkey.......

 

[Hydroohio]

Correct, you would want to look for a "hydroponic" gardening forum, they are plentiful. Youtube is also a decent source for general information as well.

The lights that you use is a straight forward deal for the most part. CFL's are ok but do not penetrate like a HID which means you must keep CFL's VERY close to ALL parts of the plant which in some cases can be tricky to do.

You could also venture into the world of LED's.

A full spectrum is always better, but then again I would not concentrate on these type details until you learn the basics first.

Your environment is the most important aspect.

The water that you use is also very important so you should make sure and arrange for a decent source.

Your grow space should have plenty of ventilation and air flow. Temperature and humidity are also very important and the space you use should have this in mind.

I would also keep in mind that medical mj comes from a very unique plant that is not like any other plant. It would not really be all that wise to assume if it is "ok" or good for a tomato plant that it is ok for mj. I certainly would not be giving a bell pepper plant anywhere near the same thing as I would be giving a mj plant. Sure you could argue that ALL plants are the same and they are at certain areas. We are MORE than 95% like a monkey.......

Well i of course did not mean that they are exactly alike, but only that they have similar requirements to actually grow, not thrive or be the best they can be, but to grow and survive, the requirements are similar MJ is actually a bit less picky than tomatoes considering it is technically considered a weed or so i was told by a hydroponic shop.

My curiosity is more if those bulbs would work better considering they are very narrow focus in spectrum and it is almost all like in the spectrum used by plants.

I do know in Coral Reef Tanks the T5 bulbs actually Out perform HID lighting, they maintain more par value at the bottom of the tank than an MH lighting does. Many Many reef keepers have switched over to T5 do to the fact they are cheaper to run than HID, and they produce less heat than HID. I could tell you dozens of HID horror stories about house fires caused by well ventilated HID lighting. Along with fish that were literately cooked in the tank because the owner did not have a chiller to control water temp. So for me, i wont risk HID lighting of any kind.

As far as water, i have that covered, my water is RO triple carbon filtered, so it is dang good quality water.

Led lighting is way way way outta my price range. My choices are CFL or T5 High Output.

 

[HydroManster]

ROFL......uhhh OK. I am thinking the invisible man that lives in the sky and needs our money will be ok with it all...LOL!! Just please do not stop sending him all your money.

It is statements like this that make me ponder or doubt the thought that humanity will make it. We are "suppose" to be getting smarter, but frankly I do not see it. Is it not amazing that people who "preach" God know the least about the subject? I find these VERY ironic indeed!

Peeps make the mistake of measuring our advancement as a race by our technology but nothing could me more untrue! There is a HUGE difference between knowledge and "Wisdom".

It is our "Belief" systems that must change.

Our technology might be advancing at a rapid rate, BUT, the "wisdom" to use that technology is WAY behind and almost non existent! That is SUPER scary!!!!

Our very systems and cultures are at fault here. For example we teach our children that to get well you must visit a doctor. This is why the simple act of going to the doctor gets you better. The "placebo" affect accounts for 1/3 of all treatments. 1/3, that is a HUGE number! What people do NOT talk about is the "non-placebo" affect. If positive thinking can account for 1/3 of people getting well or "healed" then what is the number or percentage that negative thoughts give??

We are VERY capable of healing our own bodies without doctors and drugs. We are just taught from the get go that we can not heal ourselves and that one must go to a doctor to get better.

This is also why extreme religious groups can do things like walk on fire, and drink lethal doses of cyanide without being harmed. God is not protecting these people and it demonstrates the true power of belief.

Religion is a simple means of control made by MAN, not God, and this is beaten into our brains and belief systems.

You can not worship a higher power and be free at the same time. Think about it....

Two schools of thought here;

Was Jesus a God that became a man?

Was Jesus a man, that BECAME a God?

The latter would have a drastic different meaning would it not?

Cheers!

 

[HydroManster]

Agreed, there are lots of morons that do not follow guide lines and create fire hazzards. This is not the HID hardware's fault nor is it some kind of design flaw. It is simply the moron's fault that did not set up the hardware correctly (misuse). You run a risk of fire with ANY amount or type of electrical hardware.

CFL's have there purpose in indoor gardening for sure, but after using them BOTH for over 28 years now I would disagree that T5's are "better" than HID lightning. They are an apple and orange first off. They both have there proper use for indoor gardening (i.e. veg cycles done with T5's, then flowering done with HID's).

The best scenario after much testing of different bulbs and spectrum's is to use HID for main lighting and use CFL's for side/supplement lighting as well as to either add too or adjust your spectrum. Once again these are more advanced things to worry about as getting to learn the basics should come first and is so much more important. You have plenty of time to worry/learn about PAR and different color spectrum's and how that translate to what improves plant growth and health. The numbers do not directly translate sometimes and it is very easy to mis-interpret the data. The only way to really comprehend/use and over come this is by "experience".

I would also disagree with the plant similarities from my experience, as I mentioned I would not use any where near the same formulas for tomatoes as would be used for medical mj. I hate to tell you but you are not the first to come onto a forum and claim that your growing veggies instead of mj as some sort of covert plan so nobody will know what your really growing....lol!!

You are also not the first or the last to try and grow a tomato like a mj plant or vice verse. They are different and require different things all the way from lighting down to nutrient profiles (ratio's are super important!).

Could you use the same things that you use on a tomato plant with a mj plant?? Sure, hell you could even use Miracle Grow or an Orchid Flower formula if your heart desired too. Should you? Would it be anywhere near as good if you did things the proper way and used the proper nutrient profile and lighting requirements? I think the answer to that is very plain.

Again, MJ is a one of kind plant like no other. One example is that no other plant will actually remove radiation from soil to make it useable again. MJ has been tested and grown at nuclear disaster sites and has been shown to actually remove radiation from the soil. Try that with a tomato plant!!

This is also why you must be so careful when deciding what to feed medical mj plants.

And we also are for sure not dealing with Coral Reef Tanks here either.

I stick to my original suggestion, get a book or two on hydroponics and gardening with fruits and veggies.

If your growing tomato's hydroponically, then get a book on growing tomato's hydroponically, very simple logic.

I PROMISE it will be the best 20 bucks you ever invested in your grow op! And you can thank me later!

Cheers!

Well i of course did not mean that they are exactly alike, but only that they have similar requirements to actually grow, not thrive or be the best they can be, but to grow and survive, the requirements are similar MJ is actually a bit less picky than tomatoes considering it is technically considered a weed or so i was told by a hydroponic shop.

My curiosity is more if those bulbs would work better considering they are very narrow focus in spectrum and it is almost all like in the spectrum used by plants.

I do know in Coral Reef Tanks the T5 bulbs actually Out perform HID lighting, they maintain more par value at the bottom of the tank than an MH lighting does. Many Many reef keepers have switched over to T5 do to the fact they are cheaper to run than HID, and they produce less heat than HID. I could tell you dozens of HID horror stories about house fires caused by well ventilated HID lighting. Along with fish that were literately cooked in the tank because the owner did not have a chiller to control water temp. So for me, i wont risk HID lighting of any kind.

As far as water, i have that covered, my water is RO triple carbon filtered, so it is dang good quality water.

Led lighting is way way way outta my price range. My choices are CFL or T5 High Output.

 

[StonerJ]

I would agree with HydroManster. First, you simply cannot beat HID lighting, period. Yes, it is more expensive, and yes, it does generate a lot of heat, but the results simply cannot be beaten with any other "affordable" lighting technology. HID technology has actually become much less expensive over the past few years and it is now possible to purchase HID lighting for between $100-$150 depending upon the size of our garden.

Second, I also grow herbs in a DWC bucket. I maintained an herb garden throughout the winter season under cheap LED's with no issues. The herbs are nowhere near as difficult or temperamental as MJ. Herbs & vegetables can withstand pH swings that would destroy MJ plants. The required nutrients are far simpler to use & maintain in solution, and the temperatures are far less critical. I learned hydro by growing herbs & vegetables and it was extremely valuable to me as a beginner to have plants that could withstand my lack of experience.

Pay heed to HydroManster's advice. He knows of what he speaks. I also read various non-MJ hydro forums. There is a wealth of advice & experience out there. Search is your best friend.

 

[Hydroohio]

Agreed, there are lots of morons that do not follow guide lines and create fire hazzards. This is not the HID hardware's fault nor is it some kind of design flaw. It is simply the moron's fault that did not set up the hardware correctly (misuse). You run a risk of fire with ANY amount or type of electrical hardware.

CFL's have there purpose in indoor gardening for sure, but after using them BOTH for over 28 years now I would disagree that T5's are "better" than HID lightning. They are an apple and orange first off. They both have there proper use for indoor gardening (i.e. veg cycles done with T5's, then flowering done with HID's).

The best scenario after much testing of different bulbs and spectrum's is to use HID for main lighting and use CFL's for side/supplement lighting as well as to either add too or adjust your spectrum. Once again these are more advanced things to worry about as getting to learn the basics should come first and is so much more important. You have plenty of time to worry/learn about PAR and different color spectrum's and how that translate to what improves plant growth and health. The numbers do not directly translate sometimes and it is very easy to mis-interpret the data. The only way to really comprehend/use and over come this is by "experience".

I would also disagree with the plant similarities from my experience, as I mentioned I would not use any where near the same formulas for tomatoes as would be used for medical mj. I hate to tell you but you are not the first to come onto a forum and claim that your growing veggies instead of mj as some sort of covert plan so nobody will know what your really growing....lol!!

You are also not the first or the last to try and grow a tomato like a mj plant or vice verse. They are different and require different things all the way from lighting down to nutrient profiles (ratio's are super important!).

Could you use the same things that you use on a tomato plant with a mj plant?? Sure, hell you could even use Miracle Grow or an Orchid Flower formula if your heart desired too. Should you? Would it be anywhere near as good if you did things the proper way and used the proper nutrient profile and lighting requirements? I think the answer to that is very plain.

Again, MJ is a one of kind plant like no other. One example is that no other plant will actually remove radiation from soil to make it useable again. MJ has been tested and grown at nuclear disaster sites and has been shown to actually remove radiation from the soil. Try that with a tomato plant!!

This is also why you must be so careful when deciding what to feed medical mj plants.

And we also are for sure not dealing with Coral Reef Tanks here either.

I stick to my original suggestion, get a book or two on hydroponics and gardening with fruits and veggies.

If your growing tomato's hydroponically, then get a book on growing tomato's hydroponically, very simple logic.

I PROMISE it will be the best 20 bucks you ever invested in your grow op! And you can thank me later!

Cheers!

https://www.paramount-lighting.com/t5vshid_comparison.pdf

There is a comparison of T5 vs Hid, and you can see the Mean Lumens Per System Watt is actually Higher with T5. I used a salt water reef as an example for a reason, coral are much much more sensitive to the light and quality of light they receive than any plant is.

I listed PAR for a reason, PAR stands for Photosynthetic Available Radiation, that is, the spectrum's of light that a plant can actually use and the amount of Photosynthetic Available radiation that comes from them. You can have a bulb that puts out 1000 watts at 6500k but if the PAR value is low your still gonna have problems growing under it. Basically Watts and Lumens mean nothing without high PAR values to back them up. I think everyone gets way too caught up on watts and lumens and dont look at PAR Value nearly enough.

Which is why i asked about the bulbs i did, they are narrow spectrum, focused mostly in the blue and red spectrum respectively. The T5 bulbs you used were they plant grow bulbs, like the 2700k and 6500k bulbs? I ask because they do have a lower Par value than the bulbs used for a reef tank, which have the more narrow spectrum and higher par output.

Honestly, I am not just saying veggies to cover my ass, that is really all i am growing lol. I have been doing a ton of reading up on hydroponics and lighting and i cant find anything that comes anywhere close to answering the main question i have. I have also stumped Botanist with the question, it honestly seems like i am just gonna have to try out the bulbs and see what happens cause no one seems to have an answer lol.

 

[Hydroohio]

I would agree with HydroManster. First, you simply cannot beat HID lighting, period. Yes, it is more expensive, and yes, it does generate a lot of heat, but the results simply cannot be beaten with any other "affordable" lighting technology. HID technology has actually become much less expensive over the past few years and it is now possible to purchase HID lighting for between $100-$150 depending upon the size of our garden.

Second, I also grow herbs in a DWC bucket. I maintained an herb garden throughout the winter season under cheap LED's with no issues. The herbs are nowhere near as difficult or temperamental as MJ. Herbs & vegetables can withstand pH swings that would destroy MJ plants. The required nutrients are far simpler to use & maintain in solution, and the temperatures are far less critical. I learned hydro by growing herbs & vegetables and it was extremely valuable to me as a beginner to have plants that could withstand my lack of experience.

Pay heed to HydroManster's advice. He knows of what he speaks. I also read various non-MJ hydro forums. There is a wealth of advice & experience out there. Search is your best friend.

https://www.paramount-lighting.com/t5vshid_comparison.pdf

Pretty much proves that in long term and average use, T5 Does in fact Beat HID, Just sayin.

Also with T5 you have more control over the exact light spectrum. You can have 1000's of watts if they aint in the right spectrum range, your plants no matter what type they are, just aint gonna grow. Plants reflect most all of the green light spectrum, you put that spectrum over the plants and you MAY get sprouts, but you might as well have them in pitch black as far as growth.

I have seen this same debate among reef keepers, who told a fellow reef keeper that coral under t5 was impossible, that if you wanted coral you HAD to have HID lighting, the debate lasted right up till the set up was seen with coral flourishing under T5 lights that looked better than the coral under the MH lights. That pretty much ended the debate.

Par value, explained in the above post, is the most important thing to look at when your dealing with coral OR plants that require light for growth. Because PAR measures EXACTLY how many Photons the plants or coral can Actually use.

 

[StonerJ]

https://www.paramount-lighting.com/t5vshid_comparison.pdf

Pretty much proves that in long term and average use, T5 Does in fact Beat HID, Just sayin.

Also with T5 you have more control over the exact light spectrum. You can have 1000's of watts if they aint in the right spectrum range, your plants no matter what type they are, just aint gonna grow. Plants reflect most all of the green light spectrum, you put that spectrum over the plants and you MAY get sprouts, but you might as well have them in pitch black as far as growth.

I have seen this same debate among reef keepers, who told a fellow reef keeper that coral under t5 was impossible, that if you wanted coral you HAD to have HID lighting, the debate lasted right up till the set up was seen with coral flourishing under T5 lights that looked better than the coral under the MH lights. That pretty much ended the debate.

Par value, explained in the above post, is the most important thing to look at when your dealing with coral OR plants that require light for growth. Because PAR measures EXACTLY how many Photons the plants or coral can Actually use.

Ummm... that's nothing more than marketing propaganda from a manufacturer of T5's. It only proves that they want to sell their lights, nothing more. HID's are their competition so of course they're going to knock them. HID's provide the spectrum that plants need when they need it. MH provides the blue spectrum during veg & HPS the red spectrum during flowering. I use CMH which provides a balanced red/blue spectrum closer to the spectrum of real sunlight than any flour provides and can be used through both cycles.

Spectrum charts would be needed to provide any sort of proof that any fluoro is superior to HID in terms of spectrum emission. There is a reason that commercial & professional growers use HID's, and it's spectrum & intensity that just can't be provided any other way besides natural sunlight.

 

[Hydroohio]

Ummm... that's nothing more than marketing propaganda from a manufacturer of T5's. It only proves that they want to sell their lights, nothing more. HID's are their competition so of course they're going to knock them. HID's provide the spectrum that plants need when they need it. MH provides the blue spectrum during veg & HPS the red spectrum during flowering. I use CMH which provides a balanced red/blue spectrum closer to the spectrum of real sunlight than any flour provides and can be used through both cycles.

Spectrum charts would be needed to provide any sort of proof that any fluoro is superior to HID in terms of spectrum emission. There is a reason that commercial & professional growers use HID's, and it's spectrum & intensity that just can't be provided any other way besides natural sunlight.

Really cause Paramount lighting makes and sells both T5 and HID lighting.

 

[StonerJ]

Really cause Paramount lighting makes and sells both T5 and HID lighting.

Yes, for commercial and public lighting applications like stadiums, transportation, marine, etc. Fluoros seem to make up 90% of their products. Have you priced multi-bulb fixtures for T5's (like 6 T5's in a fixture)? They're far from cheap. You can buy a brand new 400W MH or HPS complete with ballast & reflector for between $100 & $150. And with CMH, you don't need to choose spectrums for begging & flowering since it covers both red & blue spectrums quite well.

Again, there is a reason that commercial & professional growers use HID's.

 

[Hydroohio]

Yes, for commercial and public lighting applications like stadiums, transportation, marine, etc. Fluoros seem to make up 90% of their products. Have you priced multi-bulb fixtures for T5's (like 6 T5's in a fixture)? They're far from cheap. You can buy a brand new 400W MH or HPS complete with ballast & reflector for between $100 & $150. And with CMH, you don't need to choose spectrums for begging & flowering since it covers both red & blue spectrums quite well.

Again, there is a reason that commercial & professional growers use HID's.

Commercial & professional growers are also prolly not worrying about 100+ dollars per month that HID is going to add to the light bill.

HID also produces way to much heat for my grow tent which is in my bed room, and with an hid light in here we would be talking 90+ in my room.

There are far less bulb choices for HID than there are for T5 and most of the time you either need 2 complete HID systems or a "special" system that will run HPS and MH.



I know people are always slow to accept something new, but T5 offers a far more controlled spectrum of light, and for under 250 i can get a T5 8x54 watt system. I dont know where you have seen HID for 100 to 150 because just the bulbs for MH and HPS are between 60 to 90 each. So if you have a site that cheap please do share a link, because most all of the HID lighting i have seen is 300+. I am gonna upload photos of the spectrum's of the bulbs so you can see what i am talking about.

 

[Hydroohio]

There is the light spectrum's from 3 of the bulbs i am getting as you can see they cover the full spectrum of light that plants can actually use.

 

[StonerJ]

Commercial & professional growers are also prolly not worrying about 100+ dollars per month that HID is going to add to the light bill.

HID also produces way to much heat for my grow tent which is in my bed room, and with an hid light in here we would be talking 90+ in my room.

There are far less bulb choices for HID than there are for T5 and most of the time you either need 2 complete HID systems or a "special" system that will run HPS and MH.

I think you're laboring under a great deal of misinformation. My 400W HID costs $24.73/mo to run based upon $0.10/kwh running 18/6 during veg. $16.49/mo during 12/12 flowering. Far from $100/mo.

And only two bulbs are needed to cover the entire spectrum. An MH for blue spectrum in veg & an HPS for red spectrum in flowering. Or a CMH which covers both. And no "special" fixtures are needed. Switchable & dimmable systems are very common these days so a single fixture can handle the entire grow very inexpensively. You can buy fixtures for as low as $129 including bulb, ballast, and reflector. Damn near everywhere really. I recently purchased a 400W HydroFarm cooled reflector switchable MH/HPS system for $149. It came with your choice of MH or HPS bulb. It's in all my gallery pics. I use a 400W CMH bulb with it that cost $56. Nothing special about it. The CMH covers the entire growth spectrum. Even using just MH & HPS separately, one switchable system is all that's needed to cover the spectrum. You veg under MH, then switch the bulb to HPS for flowering. Simple as that. A single toggle switch changes the ballast to HPS from MH. At 50W per sq ft of required lighting, I can light an 8 sq ft garden. That's a lot of plants for me. i can't imagine needing more than one HID for growing in my home.

My grow space isn't even big enough to accommodate a fluoro fixture to drive 400W of T5's. Not to mention that the fixture cost for 8 T5's with reflector, etc will be well beyond the cost of the HID fixture unless i use multiple shop light fixtures, in which case i need to fabricate a reflector and use many more bulbs.

Just search for "HID grow lights". They're literally all over the internet. I can't post links because it is frowned upon to post non-sponsor links on this board. Google is your friend, but HID's are incredibly cheap these days.

No doubt that HID's can create heat issues but as long as you have good ventilation (which I do have and you need anyway regardless of lighting-plants need fresh moving air to avoid mold & pests, strengthen stalks, etc) you can deal with it. Tents present a unique situation in terms of handling heat & odors so not everybody growing in a tent wants HID's. But if you are not in a tent, then your ventilation capabilities hold the key.

I know people are always slow to accept something new, but T5 offers a far more controlled spectrum of light, and for under 250 i can get a T5 8x54 watt system. I dont know where you have seen HID for 100 to 150 because just the bulbs for MH and HPS are between 60 to 90 each. So if you have a site that cheap please do share a link, because most all of the HID lighting i have seen is 300+. I am gonna upload photos of the spectrum's of the bulbs so you can see what i am talking about.

Fluoros aren't new. People have been growing with them for years. I've used them before. But for the size plants I grow, fluoro just doesn't penetrate like HID does. That's just a fact. Again, just google the term "HID Grow Lights". They're everywhere. If I was allowed to post links I could show you at least a dozen hits for HID's complete w/ reflectors & ballast for under $150 in about 5 mins. And i certainly don't see how T5's offer a "far more controlled" spectrum of light than HID's. I've already got both red & blue spectrums covered in a single CMH bulb. And bulbs are certainly less than $60-$90 ea. My goodness, you can get 400W MH or HPS bulbs for less than $20 ea!

I don't know where you're getting your HID info from but wow, I think it's from about 10 years ago.

 

[StonerJ]

There is the light spectrum's from 3 of the bulbs i am getting as you can see they cover the full spectrum of light that plants can actually use.

My CMH covers it in one bulb:

Or, I can use a $15 ea MH to cover blue & $15 ea HPS to cover red and still be fully covered.