LED Grow Lights: What Do You Want To Know?

[HydroGrowLED]

I know there are a lot of you out there seeking a professional opinion on LED grow lights. You see them all over the internet, and read the exaggerated claims of what the units can do, yet you're rarely able to find any real data to back it up. You're conflicted with what to buy, to test, or even whether it's worth the money, so this thread is for you.

I am a continuously learning expert on LED lighting systems and plant growth. I've devoted the past 2 years of my life researching and testing this exciting new technology, and have made major breakthroughs in turning the theory of LED's into a reality. Of everyone in the world, I am one of the most knowledgeable people you'll meet when it comes to LED's and growing plants. I am a no BS, full disclosure kind of person, and I look forward to providing you with whatever knowledge I can. I will do my best to respond to all questions in an objective and factual manner. So please, let the questions begin!

 

[10ickyfingers]

Have you grown with the (UFO type) leds? Results?

 

[HydroGrowLED]

Have you grown with the (UFO type) leds? Results?

Yes, one of the first units I ever had built and tested was a 90W UFO using 440nm blue, 465nm blue, 612nm orange, 630nm red, and 660nm red. So this light (in terms of how other sellers market their lights) would be a Tri-Spectrum, 5-band light (very similar to ones currently offered on eBay or from companies like ProSource Worldwide). It had a 120 degree emitting angle, like roughly 99% of all LED grow lights on the market, and while it could grow plants, it barely compared to the T5 I had next to it. I tested this unit at a time when all that was available from sellers were the red/blue UFO's to give you an idea on when I got started, and what I was using back then. I quickly moved on to a better design catering to 440nm, 470nm, 640nm, 660nm, 740nm, and 3000k white, as the output was closer matched to marijuana absorption peaks. I also adjusted the ratios of my colors from the previous models to better fit the requirements and ratios of our plants, based on how efficiently they convert each color into energy. One of the things I learned during testing is that the proper spectral output is vital to achieve growth with LED comparable to what you're used to under HID. Lights that are off by 10-15nm on a color, or that don't cover the four main peaks our plants need for photosynthesis (439nm, 469nm, 642nm, and 667nm) will have a hard time producing results like a HID. The ratio of each color also plays a key role in development, though not as large as making sure all of the outputs are there. Lastly, intensity makes a huge difference on how much you can yield on any individual plant. LED's lack the ability of HID's to carry light energy over long distances, as they are low-wattage light sources. So making sure you have a bright beam, and that all of your available light is aimed directly at your plants, ensures that you will have full growth all the way to the base of your plants. We accomplish this now by using 60 degree LED's, which also allow for larger, denser buds, as they carry more light energy, and higher intensity vs 120 degree LED's.

 

[groover]

Hi Cammie,
Thanks for the prompt reply to my price query in da other thread.
I am super keen but still have a question or 2.
What are the differences between 30degree & 60degree LED's?
For what reasons would I choose one over the other?
Am I correct in thinking that the 60's would be more suitable for the whole growth period and the 30's better for use in the flowering period only?

Thank's for doin what you,re doin. It's great that you continually strive to better your products and not just copy others as so many companies do these days. It's pioneers like you that benefit the entire growing community and +reps for that.

 

[HydroGrowLED]

So the degree of light determines the intensity of the beam from each LED, and the coverage area it is able to achieve. Since LED's lack the ability to carry light energy over long distances, I knew that there would be limitations as to what different viewing angles could achieve. For example, a 120 Degree viewing angle provides light to a wide area, but because it lacks intensity, the light energy only travels 12-18" downward through your canopy before it is exhausted. A 60 degree viewing angle covers about half the coverage area of the 120 degree, but it increases the intensity of the beam to carry light energy 36"-42" down into your canopy. Lastly, for those individuals growing plants taller than 42", I knew they'd need more intensity, so I made the option of 30 degree available. 99% of the growers who buy LED's, are not growing plants over 42", so the 60 degree is perfect for them.

There are two things to consider with the 30 degree for blooming, if your plants are under 42" tall. 1: it won't have the lateral spread of the 60 degree, meaning that it won't hit all of the in-between leaves on the plants. 2: it won't have as large of a footprint as the 60 degree, meaning you'll need more of them to cover the same area.

The 30 degree will give you increased intensity, which should results in higher penetrative ability of the light, but I am uncertain as to what this would equate to in terms of yield. Will you get 10% or 20% better yield within your footprint? It's something I have yet to test, but it's likely as you are increasing the watt/square foot with a 30 degree (same wattage, smaller footprint vs 60 degree). If cost is an option to you though (as in how many lights do I need to cover Y x Z area), I would stick with the 60 degree units

 

[Red-Cricket]

Hey Hydro, Thanks for the imput. Im looking for a flowering light...would a LED be better than (10) 3000k T5's? Been using the (10) 6400K for vegging in soil and really like what I see. Tell us more about your LED's...and how Good they work and compare to T5's Thanks for your time! Red

 

[HydroGrowLED]

It's hard to make a comparison against 10 T5's, when I'm unsure as to the the wattage of the T5's or which lighting unit you would like them compared to. Update me with that info, and I'd be more than happy to do an evaluation for you

 

[Red-Cricket]

The t5's im using are 54w.HO...6400k using now for vegging and planning to "buy" 54watt Ho 3000K for flowering..110.00 including shipping. Thanks for your time and comparing the differnces. My 1st time grow..TY again Red

 

[HydroGrowLED]

lol, I still need a bit more information. You're using 4' T5 fixtures, and each bulb is 54W 3000K for flower. So do you have a total of 10 lighting fixtures, or 10, 54W bulbs? And if it's 10 lighting fixtures, how many bulbs do each hold? Lastly, how many plants are you trying to grow within what size of a space?

 

[Red-Cricket]

Sorry Hydro, Im using (5) 4' 2 bulb fixtures =10 bulbs. Now iv got 7 plants in 3 gal containers in an area 4 1/2' wide...3' deep and 8' tall. Plus 14 clones in 16 oz cups..( I will move when flowering). Plants should go to flowering in about 2 weeks. Like the idea of LED's using the correct spectrum for specific growth. TY Red

 

[HydroGrowLED]

Sorry Hydro, Im using (5) 4' 2 bulb fixtures =10 bulbs. Now iv got 7 plants in 3 gal containers in an area 4 1/2' wide...3' deep and 8' tall. Plus 14 clones in 16 oz cups..( I will move when flowering). Plants should go to flowering in about 2 weeks. Like the idea of LED's using the correct spectrum for specific growth. TY Red

AWESOME

Ok, so let's start with the basics: you are using 540W of Fluorescent. Each 4' bulb is about 5000 lumens, meaning your total lumen output is 50,000. Let's be generous and assume that 20% of your light output is usable by your plants. That means you'd be using about 10,000 lumens for growth.

In order to evenly cover the entire 4.5' x 3' wide grow space, you would need 4, 126W units. If you reduced the amount of space you used a little bit (to say 30" x 48"), you could get away with 3. So you would either need 378W or 504W of LED in order saturate your area with light. This equates to 15,000 - 20,000 lumens of available light for your plants.

Our 60 degree LED's emit light at a much higher intensity vs CFL. They have more penetrative power, meaning they are able to bud your plant all the way to it's base. In our testing, our LED's produced buds 40% denser than HID using clones from the same mother at different times. CFL is not known to produce as large or dense of buds as HID, so LED will certainly be much more dense than CFL. Since our LED light carries so much energy with it, you should also see larger buds throughout the plant vs CFL. To give an honest educated guess, you should be able to yield over 2lbs, with 4 126W units, depending on strain. So even though there won't be huge energy savings over the CFL, you will likely see at least double the yield, and you won't have 10 bulbs to replace every 6-9 months.

 

[maryjah]

I've been having really great results with my LED, for both veg and flower. The 6W bulbs penetrate through the canopy pretty well and they use so little energy! It's just my first grow, but my buds are looking mighty fine and I'm getting ready for my first harvest in a few weeks. I'm working with 2 sativas in a 2x2' closet space, but could easily do 4 and maybe 6 (depending how bushy, I guess) in a space even bigger than that. The PPF-800 is supposed to cover up to 4x5', and from the looks of my light I think it could fill that space.

 

[Baja Big Dog]

Dumb question...

Is it OK to switch from LED's to HID? Growing with LED, then switching to HID when flowering?

Want to clone with LED, and grow room had HID...good or bad?

 

[HydroGrowLED]

It's not bad to veg with LED and flower with HID, or even to mix the two lights together. The plants will be fine. When you get the money though, you may want to upgrade your HID to a LED setup

 

[McBudz]

This thread is a great idea. Lets get the q and a out of the led journals

 

[wjohan]

I've visited your website and looked trough your information. Your said your lamp gives exactly the right wavelenght for optimal stimulation of the cholorphyll molecules. You named these wavelenghts in your answer off the first question. I do not understand why you don't want to give carotene the exact wavelenghts. You just take the four wavelenghts for the cholorphyll molecules but the carotene molecules are also very important, you said. Why is this? does this any specific reason?

P.S. English is not my first language so don't blaim me if my words are not right.

 

[wjohan]

Another question. You said competitors are using 120 degrees LEDs and you're using 60 degrees or even 30 degrees LEDs. I understand that the light intensity directly increases when the beam is less wide because the beam become denser. You said the coverage of the lamp with 60 degrees is about half of the lamp with the 120 degrees LEDs. I could be wrong but isn't one-fourth off the coverage. What does this mean for the amount of lamps needed? So what if the 60 degrees isn't the optimal spread of beam?

 

[wjohan]

I do have alot of questions, but your the expert so who else I'm going to ask

You say that in your lights your are using a couple of wavelenghts corresponding with the chlorophyll optimal wavelenghts. You also say that you're using infrared and white light. I thought white light was a combination of every color light (so every wavelenght, 5400K?). Why should you use wavelenghts that don't corresponds with the optimum wavelengths?

And why should you use infra-red light? I read some other information that you should combine led and HID. First you use the ledlight shine but because of the little heat generated by the ledlight you need to use HID for heating the canopy. This is a sequence you keep repeating. Is this why you use the infrared light, and what do you think about the information I read.

 

[wjohan]

This is my last question (for today)
In the absorbtion graph on your website you can see the relative absorbtion at different wavelenghts. You can also see that the peaks in the red spectrum are alot higher than the ones in the blue spectrum. Why dont only use the red peaks? In which percentage are these wavelenghts distributed, are they evenly distributed to the height of the peek.
You can see that the red peak of chlorophyll-a is about 3 times as high as the blue peak of chlorophyll-a. Does this mean that the amount of leds who have the right wavelenght for the red peak is 3 times greater than the amount of leds with the right wavelenght for the blue peak. So if you have 3 leds for the red peak than you take 1 led for the blue peak, is this right?

 

[HydroGrowLED]

I've visited your website and looked trough your information. Your said your lamp gives exactly the right wavelenght for optimal stimulation of the cholorphyll molecules. You named these wavelenghts in your answer off the first question. I do not understand why you don't want to give carotene the exact wavelenghts. You just take the four wavelenghts for the cholorphyll molecules but the carotene molecules are also very important, you said. Why is this? does this any specific reason?

P.S. English is not my first language so don't blaim me if my words are not right.

Carotenoids are accessory light harvesting pigments that help extend the range of wavelengths over which light can drive photosynthesis, and protect the chlorophyllous pigments from the harmful photo destructive reaction which occurs in the presence of oxygen. These points are at 439nm and 483nm blue.

The 440nm blue in our product targets one carotenoid peak perfectly. The 470nm blue emits light up to 485nm, which covers the second peak. Since carotenoids are not as vital as chlorophyll, and they are only an "accessory", it was not necessary to target them with the same force as we did the chlorophyll. We still manage to stimulate both points though, as they are still important to the entire photosynthetic process.