Newbie - DWC - White Widow - The Totem - Bomb Ice - 600 Watt MH/HPS

MacAndCheese

New Member
Okay so I started this journal in a word document and I really wanted to share so I'll catch you up.

12/11/13

Okay, this is what I'm planting.
2 White Widow Fem
2 The Totem Fem
1 Bomb Ice Fem
1 Bomb Cherry Fem

Using an 18 gallon tote at a res with 2 4in air stones and 3.75 in net pots.

I inserted 2 day old pre-germinated seeds into rockwool cubes. I adjusted pH to 5.5 with ppm at approximately 385. I placed the rockwool cubes in germination dome and place under 350 watt MH light with approximately 3 feet of distance between cubes and light. The humidity is at 40%.

12/14/13
Looks like the 2 The Totem, bomb ice, and one white widow sprouted up. I knew the Bomb Cherry probably wouldn’t because it didn’t pre-germinate and the other white widow looks like it started to sprout out of the rockwool but it looks like it’s leave have been plucked off (probably the cat).I lowered the MH light to about 2 feet above the girls. The temp did rise up to 81 degrees so I turned the fan on high and it seems to be holding steady at 79. I did observe each of the girl’s taproots on the bottom of the rockwool cubes. We found out today the timer on the light wasn’t shutting off so it has been running non-stop since the 11th. I turned the timer on so the light is running 18/6 as of tomorrow it should be running on schedule. I will be getting the DWC system setup within the next 3 days. I’ve been watering them with pH adjusted tap water when I notice the rockwool starting to run dry

12/20/13
Bomb ice, one white widow and 2 The Totem sprouted. My cat tried to strike again and almost took out one of the Totem it was completely tipped over in its rockwool cube but I tried to get her to stand back up. I also turn up the MH light to 400 watts. I put them all in a 18 gallon DWC in hydroton with 2 air stones. Water filled to the bottoms of the net pots. The temp has been around 82-86 with the fan and vent and down to 70 in the dark without the fan. The dwc water temps been around 75. I’ve been thinking if it gets any warmer I’ll use Ice to cool it down but we will see. It’s been about 2 days since I put them in the DWC and they seem to be liking it. I have not seen any root growth through the bottom of the net pots so far so I have poured a little water over the hydroton to make sure they don’t dry out. I haven’t used any nutrients yet just pH adjusted water to 5.5 today it was at about 6 but I think that’s due to the hydroton (even though I soaked it, it did seem to my water go up when I was soaking it) so I’m lowering that down to 5.5 now. The plants look good just worried about the temp trying to keep it cool. They looked a little yellow so well see how the pH adjustment goes.

12/21/13
The roots on the bottom of the bomb ice are poking out the bottoms of the net pot… I’m super excited just gonna be waiting for the other ones.

12/22/13 –Day 8
This morning the roots of the white widow where coming out through the bottom of the net pot. So today is the first day I added nutes. Using the General Hydroponics Nutrients. I used a chart off of grow weed easy.com using half strength for week one. I have an 18 gal tote that’s not filled all the way so 15 gals. I used 7.5ml of gro, 15ml of micro, and 7.5ml of bloom. The res is still at 75 degrees, no ice yet because I’m waiting for it to freeze. The PPM before the nutrients were 375 – 550 after = 175 ppm for now. pH is at 5.5 I will be keeping a close eye on them.

12/23/13 –Day 9
PH today was 6.6 we adjusted to 5.9. PPM went down to 468. The waters a little cloudy we did use the ice
bottle today to try and keep the res cool. The temp is at 78 degrees today because its sooooo cold outside. All of their roots are popping out except for The Totem the cat got, but it is coming back fine it is getting its second set of leaves which all the other girls are getting their third set. They all look like they are doing pretty well.
Some Pictures….

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The one the cat got
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1/02/14 Day 19

So the 24th of December the res started to smell bad and the ph kept on rising. I ended up changing the res on the 29th and there was white gross stuff growing on the bottom.The roots that had come out of the net pots had turned brown and fell off. The pH had risen so high over Christmas in 24 hr and I had no pH down that I think it had killed off the roots. I added half strength nutrients again and 2 days later on the 31st the smell started coming back. I stopped using the ice bottles to keep the res cool because I thought that was contaminating the res and causing more problems. I know I can buy a chiller and that may help but I don't have that kind of money to drop right now. My last ditch effort before throwing in the towel on this grow, I installed my water pump and had direct lines going to each of the pots and had a constant flow of water. I think this helped the water flow and the oxygenation because the next day the smell was dissipating and the water was no longer cloudy. So the past 3 days the pH has held steady at 6.2 there is so much new root growth on all the plants and they started growing again, slowly but growing. I bought Cal-Mag plus and Aquashield and used 5ml/gal of each to hopefully jump start some new growth and prevent any further yellow/brown blotchy spots from forming on the 2 Totem and white widow. PPMs before aquashield and calmag was 500 and after it was 650. I feel more comfortable with this now but still learning.

Dec 30th Pictures Day 16
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Bomb Ice
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White Widow
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The Totem (the one the cat got)
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I think they turned yellow because the pH went up so high so fast because of whatever was growing in the res...

Jan 2nd 2014 Day 19
Looking a little better here.
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Today the pH is still at 6.2 and they look less yellow and more green. The water is clear and there is no smell... :) I plan on changing the res on Sunday and adding more nutrients (General Hydroponics Gro, Micro, Bloom btw)

Feel free to comment or give advice I don't feel like I know enough so if you see anything weird let me know, Thanks.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

If the water is still good in my res can I just add new nutrients to top it off and do you think that is sufficient? Or should I completely empty it?
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

I'll be getting into DWC shortly so I will be following your progress with hope of learning as well as sharing. It is my understanding that a res should be swapped out weekly, but if depleted during that time, topping off is fine. This is just what I read elsewhere and have not yet tried so continued research on your part is a must. A few members are trying to steer me in safer directions (away from risky DWC), but I can be hard headed.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

Thanks Skybound Yeah thats what I had read too but I had read some people didnt do changes for a few weeks, I just wasnt for sure what their method was. So I'll stick to what I've been reading by doing the res change every week. This is my first grow ever, I did a lot of research and I was just turned on to DWC because it seemed like less of a mess with rapid growth.... The one thing that I underestimated was res temp and keeping it cool enough under mh and hps lights I realize a lot of the DWC grows I was watching used led lights...But other than that Im liking it. Id appreciate any info or advice you have or come across if you find it useful.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

1/5/14

Okay so I did my res change today. My Res is holding 14 gals of water. Temp is 77

Nutrients PPM
Tap H2O 411 (yes I know its hard :( )
Gro- 2ml/gal 81
Micro- 2.5ml/gal 146
Bloom- 0.5 ml/gal 12
CalMag- 2ml/gal 95
Aquashield 40ml

Total PPM= 745 I lowered pH to 5.7

I cut the cal-mag dose in half from the last time because I raised the dose of the gro ,micro and bloom....
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

1/7/14 Day 24

Yesterday I noticed they were all looking a little droopy but I was thinking it was due to the cooler temp during lights off. They perk up a little bit later in the evening but I'm still a little worried... pH went up to 6.0, and ppm went up to 765, I topped off the res with about 3/4 gallon on pH adjusted water. I was thinking nitrogen toxicity? or over watering but I didn't think that could happen in a DWC...
Pictures from today

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re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

A few suggestions;

1) put more foil on the lid and if possible, extend beyond the lid to keep light/heat from penetrating the side of the tote. I don't think the res temps are low enough and you might find your res with Pythium one day which sucks b/c then it's usually too late. Some people have been able too conquer it, but that's for the seasoned grower which I am not. I had it once and lost everything. Lower those res temps if at all possible. I suggest using Heisenberg Tea.
2) 400PPM tap water? That's insane, but if that's what you have, I suggest either getting a regular filter added to your inlet water line before your sink. This will cut PPM in half or even take it down more. You should also be using GH Flora Micro Hardwater as it's geared for that. Also suggest getting an RO unit if possible. They're a bit pricey, and even more expensive to run, but your first harvest will justify the expense.
3) I always mix in my amendments/additives first, then dial in my PPM by adding equal parts of the nutrients. For instance I run with 5ml/Gal GH CALiMAGic, 4ml/Gal GH Flora Blend, 1ml/Gal GH Armor Si (silica) and I leave it to aerate for a while and mix thoroughly. I then take my PPM reading and deduct that number from my target PPM number and I then know the difference I have to cover by adding in the 3 part GH nutrients.
Veg - 3 parts Gro, 2 parts Micro, 1 part Bloom. For transition it's equal parts and flower is 2 parts Gro, 3 parts Micro and 5 parts Bloom. Once I am done adding the first 3 amendments/additives, I no longer use a ml/Gal sequence as that no longer applies. I am at that time trying to hit a target PPM so as not to over drive the girl and burn her out. I am finding sativas to be a little more sensitive than indicas, but that might just be the strain I'm growing?

Your plants look lovely BTW!
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

When making the tea, I've since modded the recipe to make only one gallon at a time. YOU MUST USE DISTILLED OR RO WATER FOR TEA. This is not negotiable. Tap water will likely kill the beneficial bacteria upon contact with the chlorine and chloramines.

1 gallon of distilled water
5 ml Aqua Shield
6.5 TBSP Ancient Forest
1/5 teaspoon Great White (0.5 gram) (any mycorrhizal product)
0.6 teaspoon Grandma's Molasses (3ml)

I am nearing the end of my first grow using the tea and my roots were pearly white last I checked. When I start a DWC, I will use the tea in there too, but I must be diligent in not allowing any of the solids from the tea to get into my res as this will jam up the impeller and cause a failure. I also suggest doing a google search for Heisenberg Tea. You will find a nice explanation on another forum (RIU), read that one. I can't link to other forums here, so I hope you find it. Capn's write up on this forum is just as good and his recipe is what I've been using.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

Thanks I took your advice with how Im using my nutients. I looked into an RO system and theres no way I can afford one at this moment but Im now getting my water ready by letting it sit for a few days ahead of time to let the chlorine work out of it. They seem to be doing a lot better so thanks for the advice.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

1/13/14 Day 30

Okay so I've just been topping off the res with water and nutrients and they seem to be doing okay. I think the Totem strain is just really sensitive to any changes where as the white widow and bomb are a lot easier to deal with. I saw some pre-flowers on the bomb and ww they're feminized but I just wanted to confirm. I have some pictures they're not the best but I'll post them anyway.
/
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The Totem (the one the cat got)
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The other Totem
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White Widow
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Bomb Ice
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Root progress
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re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

I hate to say it, but your pics look like your roots aren't doing so hot. From what I can tell, it appears that there's not enough aeration from the air stone for DWC and since there is some uniformity in color from one plant to the next, I'd say that if there is a sickness in the root zone, then both plants would have it so isolation wouldn't help to solve anything.

If it is within your ability, I strongly suggest making Heisenberg Tea as outlined above. This is not a sure fire cure, and is mostly used as a preventative measure, but the beneficial bacteria eats all that nasty crud off the roots and they'd look like fine white angel hair v. heavily soyed Lo Mein.

I realize your budget might already be strained, but if this particular grow is important to you, you might have to make some hard choices. The cheapest of which would likely be getting more air into that water by adding another air stone, or even adding another pump to push the added air stone. Another thing that will give you root rot is high res temps. I think the allowable high for DWC is 65º or near. Perhaps building a cheap recirculating system to get the primary res out of the usually hot flower room? Simply adding more air and bringing res temps down would aid in changing the environment from a favorable one to a less than favorable one for harmful bacteria.

First Grow-Aero-Stealth Box

There's a link to my previous journal that I lost to pythium and the soil plant turned out to be a dude. My intent for that grow was to learn, and knowledge was the only thing I harvested from that 7 plant grow. Pythium is a real bitch to battle once it sets in, so the best game plan is to not let it gain any footing to begin with. Max aeration, cool water temps, beneficial bacteria, address them when it's in your way to or wait till it's likely too late. I hope your roots maintain!
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

I appreciate the advice. I would like a chiller but yeah got to pay the mortgage first :). I am using the aquashield and it seems to be working as long as the water has been let to sit out for a few days. My res is double insulated with another tote. The roots were looking a little brown in that second picture because that was right after the res change before I was letting the water sit to let the chlorine dissipate and it was killing my beneficial bacteria but since that picture the third root pic show new growth and its no longer as brown. I will continue this way and hopefully it works out but I'm not going to get to worked up over it. With the equipment I have Ill settle for not so perfectly pearly roots and what I've read it is okay not to be perfectly white. I'm trying to keep this as simple as possible if it doesn't work out I've got a back up. :)

On your scrapped grow I did notice they were a little brown but with what I have read they did look salvageable. Was there another reason for scrapping your DWC?
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

B/c they were all clones (well 2 were bag seed), whatever infected the roots spread to all 6 sites. I tried to stay the course, then tried mild H2O2 treatments to no avail. I then tried to save the best looking one by removing all and isolating the besty in a new container. I lost him in just a few short days later. It was an experience I ad to go through to better understand the "why" of it all. I now know for aero or dwc (and probably NFT and Ebb&Flow) that water temps need to be addressed first, then the system be built from that point forward. All other elements are adjustable, but preventative measures are always the very best solutions.
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

1/29/2014 Day 46

Still doing good, I tried to clone 2 of the bomb ice about 3 days ago and put 6 more seed in hempy pots to see how that goes. I will be flipping to 12/12 on Sunday.

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re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

If the water is still good in my res can I just add new nutrients to top it off and do you think that is sufficient? Or should I completely empty it?

its good to do a res change at least every 2 weeks max
I do weekly res changes my res temps may run as high as 74 but usually about 72
lately its been cool so the res has been at the optimum 69 temp
you can technically leave it if you can check ppm as well as ph but how many nutrient manufacturers give you a bi weekly or longer schedule?
I just follow the weekly schedule do a weekly change and cleanup I figure if its kept clean I have less chance of an issue
also I notice in the pic 2 plants on the left looks like nitrogen deficiency

1/5/14

Okay so I did my res change today. My Res is holding 14 gals of water. Temp is 77

Nutrients PPM
Tap H2O 411 (yes I know its hard :( )
Gro- 2ml/gal 81
Micro- 2.5ml/gal 146
Bloom- 0.5 ml/gal 12
CalMag- 2ml/gal 95
Aquashield 40ml

Total PPM= 745 I lowered pH to 5.7

I cut the cal-mag dose in half from the last time because I raised the dose of the gro ,micro and bloom....

oh yea
good to use cal mag only if needed and its showing calcium or magnesium deficiencies

Subbed Happy Weednsday Mac :thumb:

Don't forget to put the link for your journal in your signature so when you do other posts on other threads people can click the link to your journal and join
just hit user cp towards the top on the bar to the left and scroll down on the left theres an edit signature
put the link to your journal in there and its easier for people to get the link to your journal all they need is to see one of your posts
on any other thread
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

Thanks for the info Hemphog I think I've figured it out, my res has been stable; pH has been holding steady at 6 ppm around 1500 and they seem to be thriving. I did notice when I switched over to the MH bulb the pH started going down... not too much but from 6 to 5.8 everyday but I thought I read somewhere its just the plant changing and getting ready for flower. I will try to figure out that link thing too :thanks:
 
re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

On 1/30/14 Day 47
I switched to my MH bulb and put my seedlings into a different area with a 4 feet 5T florescent bulbs. They seemed to be loving it.
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2/5/14 Day 53- Day 1 flower
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re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

you could drop those t-5's a lot closer say 6 inches off the tops
 
Re: Newbie. DWC; White Widow, The Totem, Bomb Ice. 600 watt MH/HPS

2/13/14 Day 61 Day 9 of Flower

I bought that ph down dry formula which I noticed adds like 300 ppm to my water.... doesn't seem to be changing anything else

Anyways I still hadn't seen any roots from my clones but they were still looking good until my boyfriend put them put them in the runoff from the hempy pots then they turned a little yellow and droopy. I'm not too determined to make them work so I put one in a hempy pot and left the other as is (out of the runoff) just to see what happens.

Some pics....
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