Nivana's Chrystal 11 Weeks Into Veg - Advice Welcome!

[navigator]

And good job...I know that aint easy work.

hey thanks! it was a lot of work and i'm beat...but very excited to see the results! thanks for all your help...really...i keep saying that but there were nights when i couldn't sleep and just wondered what i was going to do with the disaster in the attic...now i feel like i'm starting to learn something.

 

[Papageno]

Well no problem I just try to give back.

You waited too long to come ask for help and that's why they stretched and got to be too tall for your space. But honestly in your case it is probably better to learn about this stuff and restart them like we are than to have them in the middle of bloom where they are not recoverable anymore and have them crash. If you would have bloomed them at the right height you probably still would have stunted them and crashed the pH and then they would have just been sick and maybe gone hermaphroditic. They would have been just horrible. At least this way you learned a few things and we haven't gone to bloom yet so we can do all kinds of things to them and they will recover. Once you transition to bloom you are rolling down hill without brakes and you got to steer correctly.

 

[Papageno]

I forgot a very important supplement you will want to get. Many companies make a Potash Silica supplement. This makes for strong cell walls and very strong stalks. Very good stuff for many reasons but when we get to training these it will make all the difference in the world. It can be a bit spendy but you don't use a lot. The one I use cause the pH to go way up so I use that for my UP sometime instead of UP solution.

Anyway we will want that eventually.

 

[navigator]

If you would have bloomed them at the right height you probably still would have stunted them and crashed the pH and then they would have just been sick and maybe gone hermaphroditic.

yeah...i knew not to flower them as long as they were so sick...i just didn't know when to give up...that can be a problem, sometimes...

 

[navigator]

I forgot a very important supplement you will want to get. Many companies make a Potash Silica supplement. This makes for strong cell walls and very strong stalks. Very good stuff for many reasons but when we get to training these it will make all the difference in the world. It can be a bit spendy but you don't use a lot. The one I use cause the pH to go way up so I use that for my UP sometime instead of UP solution.

Anyway we will want that eventually.

tell me the name of the product and i will get it now and have it on hand...the clones are doing well, so they could probably use some too!

and because not everything should be about sick plants...here are my clones...6 on the right were planted thanksgiving week, the 4 on the left got planted today...

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

 

[Papageno]

Oh....well just about everyone makes some Silica \ Potash. I use the mad farmers version.

But Botanicare makes it

Advanced Nutrients makes it..I think theirs has the pH buffers but maybe not.

General Hydro makes it

Everyone does. If you go into a hydro store they will have something.

 

[navigator]

good morning V! the plants are doing great! i've re-read all your advice, and figure the next step will be making the tea to feed them, but probably not until they've dried out more, like maybe monday.

i got some pro-tekt for the silica/potash watering, it says to give to the plants on every watering...is this a good idea? and should i do it for the clones, as well? or is it just for sick plants?

for the pruning, i've started pinching off the top flowers. as the plants continue to appear strong, i'd like to continue to take them down to the bottom two nodes...

 

[Papageno]

So I don't think I ever pointed you at my tea. I will past a link below. At the very end of the thread is my recipe. Basically the thread is a great read of a lot of stuff. My tea is all of that plus some few things. There is another thread where I explained it all but it is buried inside this guys thread asking about beneficial bacteria.

I still need to read about the ready made tea you bought but I am betting you just add the crab meal, Kelp extract and alfalfa and a bunch of sugars and it will be very good.

A few days ago I made the tea exactly as posted below. Well not exactly. I added more sugars and let it break down and extra 12 hours. and again added a bunch of Aphrodite's extraction all along the way and a bunch of Sugaree before adding to the plants. I took a pic of a flowering auto 12 hours before and 24 hours after the tea treatment and I will post them below. You will see it goes from sparse buds you can see through to stacked and it is starting to fill in. This stuff is a great blooming tea but also helps during veg.

Tea Bag your DWC

12 hours later I gave it some Tea and then 24 hours later it looked like this.

Silica and Potash are not nutrients really so you wont burn with them. But you don't need to add but more than once a week. In soil it takes a while to break down to be absorbed and the tea will help with that.

The silica and potash help make cell walls strong. since you have flushed the soil you really will want some. But more importantly you are going to probably SCROG the resultant plant and training is greatly improved with this stuff. Strong Cell walls make for plants that can stand up well with heavy buds.

I think you had at least one plant that was looking still fairly decent and that guy you could probably whack off half the plant to get it close to start off with. but it is nice to try and get them all in shape about the same rate.

 

[navigator]

hey V! i wrote the following post last friday and thought it had loaded...but it had not...today i am gathering what is needed to make the tea...

those pictures of the bud are very impressive...that is a LOT of growth in just a few hours...these plants are so adaptable and resilient and full of good things!

i read the thread at the link you provided...will need to read it again or more to absorb all the information.

this tea is the next step, right? when the plants have totally dried out from the flushing, then they get a dose of the tea?

today, i got company from out of town, so i'm going to be somewhat distracted until tuesday...but i'm going to try to gather all the things you listed and get it bubbling by sunday/monday so it is ready when the plants are...it looks like most of it can be found locally...

and i'm going to start aggressively pinching off the tops and the grow shoots and taking them down.

i gave the clones a does of the pro-tekt today and i swear they are standing up taller and straighter!

your recipe is for more than 4 plants, right? so i would cut your quantities in half...or a quarter?

Recipe: (the units here are a totally made up thing, feel free to experiment but this is what I used)
1/4 cups alfalfa
1/4 cup crab meal - next time I may try 1 cup and see what happens
1/4 cups Earthworm Castings
1/4 cups Humus soil
1/4 cup Oatmeal
Alaska kelp fertilizer - followed bottle instructions for 1.5 gallons
Aphrodites Extraction - 1 teaspoon (again molasses is fine)
Hygrozyme - 15ml (10ml per gallon)
Fulvic Acid - 23ml (15ml per gallon)

 

[Papageno]

ahhhh...Just make it as is and throw the extra in with either the clones or the old plants. I have made it so many times now that I kind of play it by ear. In soil it is way easier but in DWC it can have a dramatic impact so fast that you gotts be careful and it depends on the res size. I posted that for DWC but I have used the same thing in soil many times.

For molasses you need black strap molasses. Real cheap stuff you should be able to find it at any grocery store.


That tea has a number of things that if you read in the posting above are explained. But the real skinny is...you have beneficial bacteria growth that will eat up and fix almost any soil problems. if you get a good dose in there so they colonize you plants will be very happy. Also the Alfalfa is a great flowering promoter and general plant fertilizer. The Crab meal (you can use Oyster shells meal or Shrimp meal) will cause the plant to have an allergic reaction thinking it is being attacked by insects. This make a natural immune response to happen. This makes the plant very Strong against disease and infections of many types as well as this will promote strong vigorous growth, High resin production to make the plant inhospitable and huge and large quantity of flowers when in bloom to help the re-population after the infestation dies off in winter.

So you should see vigorous growth after this is introduced and helps with any stage of growth but is good to have when you are trying to get the lower ones to take off.

the bacteria in the worm castings and the enzymes in the Hygrozyme are doing all the work breaking down everything else. every 12 hours add more sugar. that keeps the bacteria going. if you add too much you will know because it will be filling the bucket to the rim with foam. as the bacteria procreate they will make it look like the bucket is fermenting beer. If the bubbling is dying off add more sugars.

Be sure to stir every few hours because you don't want the sediment at the bottom to sit still and have the wrong kind of growth happen.

Filter when done and you should have 2 cups a plant. You could actually start this by adding 2 cups per plant to the bucket plus 1 extra then you will have the right amount.

I documented a large run here once and posted these pictures here last year.

Here is what it looked like immediately

After a few hours you see the bacteria going crazy

The next day it is dying down but if you add more sugar it would take off again..

Then you filter it first through a screen then a sock (I use 3 buckets to use the siphoning effect)

And you get something like this with a ppm about 800.

 

[navigator]

greetings V! the house guest has been taken to the airport and i have nearly all ingredients at hand. the humisoil is not available locally, so i ordered it today and will have it on friday, so that is the day i make the tea.

the 4 patients got really thirsty yesterday, so i gave them each a nice big drink of ph'd water and they perked up. i probably should have added some pro-tekt...but was in a hurry with the company in the house and all. so, between now and friday, i will focus on just keeping them watered enough so that they do not droop, and will give them a bit of pro-tekt with each watering.

i thought the tea would need diluting because you mentioned adding it to a 30 gallon reservoir...but i probably missed something in the narrative.

from re-reading your instructions, it appears the tea needs to brew and bubble for about 24 hours, so i should be able to feed them their first meal on saturday.

got the following airpump for the tea...

thank you, again, for hanging in there with me!

 

[Papageno]

So if I recall what I posted was a diluted version. Where you fill a 5 gallon bucket, dump 2 of that into another one, brew up the tea in the 2 gallons, strain and filter it then add the 2 back to the 3 for 5 plus sugar then dump that in the res.

You can skip the dilution. So brew up like 1.5 -2 gallons, filter it, add some more sugar and then take a measuring cup and dole it out like 2-4 cups per plant (just even it out per plant). Then you can dump another like half gallon of fresh pH'd on top to drive it into the soil. Any excess that drains out the bottom should be removed as you don't want it sitting in the drip pan. So like water it as described and 10 min later pick it up and dump out the drip pan so it doesn't sit in it.

savvy?

 

[navigator]

si...i savvy...i think...lol...

i re-read your post on the Tea Bag thread...this is what i saw that caused me to think it would need to be diluted...

Last time I brewed it was 1.5 gallons and then when done I added it back to the 5 gal bucket I got that from (to dilute it) before adding to my 30 gal res... and that was still too strong. Plants love it and the roots really love it but I gots ta flush it back out after not long at this strength.

Last time I did this it was still very strong. So I would cut the alfalfa, earth worm castings and kelp fertilizer all in half from what I did below.

1.5 gallons RO or de-chlorinated water at room temp or roughly 70F.

Recipe: (the units here are a totally made up thing, feel free to experiment but this is what I used)
1/4 cups alfalfa
1/4 cup crab meal - next time I may try 1 cup and see what happens
1/4 cups Earthworm Castings
1/4 cups Humus soil
1/4 cup Oatmeal
Alaska kelp fertilizer - followed bottle instructions for 1.5 gallons
Aphrodites Extraction - 1 teaspoon (again molasses is fine)
Hygrozyme - 15ml (10ml per gallon)
Fulvic Acid - 23ml (15ml per gallon)

How to brew:
Take a 5 gallon bucket and put in the dry ingredients. Then add 1.5 gallons of water (I take it from a dechlorinated 5 gallon I will return it to after filtering). Then add the wet ingredients and stir up good. There will be heavy sediment on the bottom you will want to agitate it all up. If it sits too long you can get anaerobic growth which we don't want. Add the air stones before the solids settle. Stir it up every few hours if you can. Keep it indoors so it stays at room temp or about 70 F. After about 24 hours add a second dose of the Aphrodites Extraction, mix and let sit for a few minutes. That will stimulate the microbes again. Then Strain into second bucket. I recommend straining twice then using an old wool sock for a third one.

so i will follow your above recipe...adding the ingredients to 1.5 gal of water...bubble the water and stir every few hours for 24 hours...then add another dose of aphrodites extraction...stir for a few more minutes and then dose the plants at 1 to 2 cups per plant and then chase it with a quart or so of ph'd water.

sound about right?

 

[Papageno]

Yeah that'll work. The issue with DWC is it absorbs it real fast and I did a previous dose a few weeks right before that one. So I was probably just doing too much for that size of res. I got some nute burn because the Alfalfa and Kelp fertilizer are real fertilizers not additives. So I ran it for a bit then dumped it and went to a fresh res. In DWC many people dump weekly anyway. I try to go at least 4 weeks between changes and I can easily go longer. It just depends on a lot of factors and really mainly how the plants are. But in yours you have a flushed out very low nute situation. So you will not likely burn the plants. We will add that and wait till it drys then add just H2O with maybe some silica and Cal Mag. Then let it dry then add some VF-11 again. and you should avoid the burn completely. But we will play it by ear. We will look at the leaves and you can post a few pics and we will see how they are responding. Maybe 4 -6 weeks down the road we will do it again right before going into bloom. And then 3 weeks into bloom or so after stretch has occurred and flowers are starting to get nuggy but not stacked we will do it again.

Add sugars every 12 hours. So make this in the morning, in the evening add some sugars, in the morning add some sugars. Then right after filtering add some sugar and go for it.

 

[navigator]

i spent some time today with the plants...and i took pictures of each one, front and back before and after they were "trimmed." lol....

this is #5 and i've included a shot of a bare branch as i'm curious if you think it will develop any more bud sites along its bare expanse.

and i just wanna say that posting pictures on here isn't hard, but it can be a challenge! they didn't keep their labels when i made the transfer from my computer to 420, so i have to look at the url to see their names. i'm sure there is an easy way around that...i just haven't found it, yet. so here is #5 - i think! lol...

edit: i should add that my goal was to remove as much as possible, but still keep fan leaves. i snipped all buds and any ugly leaves . i'd like to go back in and do them again on saturday.

what do you think?

 

[navigator]

ok...that went pretty well...next up is #4

 

[navigator]

ok...on a roll...next up is #3

 

[navigator]

and finally...#2

 

[Papageno]

Looking great...that last one is gonna have a pound or more when we are done.

I don't think you will get new growth there in between but what will happen is the new branches (if we do this right) will have tight nodal density and it wont matter.

Down below on the main stem where the very fist few were taken off you might get some regrowth.

It is rare for spontaneous nodes to appear but it is common for a chopped node to have regrowth.

I am real excited about this journal. I am in a bunch right now and I always am excited to see your updates. Good job...you got the right kind of bawllz my friend. Too many people don't understand what you are doing. Too many people grow them in veg way too long and instead of taking care of there mistake the bloom them into the light and create hermaphrodites.


And this may sound crazy but I think we are only half way. I think you did it just right. What I am saying is we let these rebound and start getting good fan leaves lower down and do this again and get us down so we have a solid 2 feet of bloom space to get some fore armed size kolas. If you are gong to SCROG it out we can go way down and grow them out and fill the space. We create a canopy about 16 inches above the soil and when that is 85% full switch to bloom...keep tucking through transition stretch... and then watch the magic happen.


GOD JOB!!!!!

 

[navigator]

thanks, V...i'm excited too! i've wanted to learn this stuff for a long time...been at it now for about 3 years and have managed to make a lot of mistakes but haven't managed to grow any real good cannabis. i have learned a bit...just not enough!

and i don't care how long this takes...my clones will be my harvest in the nearest future. we will nurse these 4 along in the ER until they are able to become a scrog (always wanted to do a scrog).

growing cannabis can be a lonely endeavor.

so, anyway, here i am looking forward to this lesson! and i have a few questions...

1. do you feed your plants, growing in soil, just this tea? or do you give them other nutrients?
2. i don't have any cal-mag, is there a brand you recommend?
3. it's possible that i will not get the humisoil until saturday - (it was supposed to be here tomorrow, but when i track the package i get this information "Possible delay in delivery due to arrival at incorrect carrier facility" - which would mean that they would not be fed again until sunday (at the earliest) and so should i give them a snack of the vf-11 maybe tomorrow? or just keep giving them the pro-tek'd ph'd water as needed? i do want to trim them down some more on saturday, if they seem ok.
4. my local grow shop wanted to sell me general organic's ancient forest in lieu of the humisoil, but i declined as i never substitute on a recipe the first time i make it...but this is the stuff they offered:
Amazon: General Organics Ancient Forest 0.5 CF Humus Soil Amendment : Alaskan Humus

wondering if you think it would be a suitable substitute?

so i edited this post to remove my question about my clones...i think i know what to do...