Nute problems?

[Half Pipe]

which nute problem do I have is it toxic or deficient and How do I figure out which one to try and fix first? these smaller plants up front are from seed, in clay only, they were healthy when i transplanted, not sure of the problem everything seems to be right ph, ppm, temp, etc.. but the plants are not.

 

[Half Pipe]

I also have another problem. Everything seems to be right ph, ppm, temp, etc.. but the plants are not. these bigger plants in the back are clones, they in fox farm starter soilless mix with a layer of clay pellets on top and bottom, soil in the middle. seems to have nute prob as well. I have had 1 successful harvest so far beginners luck I guess, lol! Having problems this time. I also Have jorge cerventes's "bible" 5th revised edition loads of info. but for a beginner a little to much, lol! Please reply with helpful info or direction thank you fellow farmers.

 

[420 Girl]

Hi 420ramrod,

I moved your thread to the appropriate forum to help give your questions a better chance of getting answered.

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

I will take a stab at this issue.... I am seeing droopy green leaves which screams over watering. The next thing I see is possible N deficiency. I am not certain though. I also do not grow in hydro so I could be way off. How old are the plants and what is water temp? How many PPM are you at?

 

[buddyb]

More info on the grow would be nice. Type of nutrients and the dosage and type of lights and how much and often ur watering and feeding.

 

[JB42]

Looks like over watering, over feeding causing lock out of maybe Potassium and Early stages of Calcium. If you have too much Nitrogen in your medium you get curled leaves and N tox will lock out Potassium and Calcium.

Your soil plants are sat in water I can see on the last picture. I would take that water out for the soil ones and just keep the medium moist when needed. They will need flushing first then started on a 1/4 nute feed when they dryout.

 

[buddyb]

nice observation with the plants sitting in water i didnt catch that the first time i looked at the photos. yea having soil potted plants sitting in water like that is an obvious no no. with soil all u have to do is water by hand every couple days when the pots feel light and dry, u could tell wen the plants need water by lifting the pots and judging it by the wieght. theres a big difference in wieght from a plant that has just been watered and one that needs some watering.
if i was u i would take all the water out from that tube and let those plants soil get dry and start from there with the hand watering and dont over water, just water enough till u see just the slightest amount of water coming from the bottoms of the pots then ur good for a couple days then check them by the wieght like i said before. garanteed those plants will purk back up. hope that helps

 

[Fuzzy Duck]

The OP (origanil poster) 420 Ramrod is using a ebb & flood system as you can see the over flow pipe in the very first pic !

If with past observations of over watering is an issue we may look at how many times a day it is set to ebb & flood via timer !


I would also look at growing medium used with such a system also !

Soil/compost may not have adquate time to drain/dry out with such a system leading to possible over saturated/water logged growing medium ?

I would also question source of water used whether it is soft, hard water or even R/O reverse omosis water !


I suspect soft or R/O water as the defs appear to look like magnesium & a touch of calcium defeciency... its known that soft & RO water lacks these nutrients & if the case calcium, magnesium supplement should be used to make up for the short fall of the nutrients.

 

[Half Pipe]

Okay, thank you so much everyone for all the great info.

I went to my local grow store and talk to them about some of my issues and they said similar things. you all did have an advantage, you had pics to look at. LOL!

so first to clear some thing up the picture with the water that was in the system was because it just happened to be when the "timer" pump was on as fuzzy duck pointed out. that timer was on for 15 mins every 12 hrs. These plants are clones "jack flash" strain. that Started in an Areo garden. They were very healthy and ready for transplanting. So Inside the "fabric" pots is a layer of clay on the bottom 2in and then a layer of "ff" starter soil in the middle, and then 1/2in layer of some more clay on top as "mulch " so to speak. The "ff" starter soil in the middle, was suppose to be similar to the "pro mix soiless" that came with the purchase of the botanicare ebb and flow system, which I was using before. anyways the water drains rather quickly as well in these pots so Im not sure how much water is being retained in the soil, so I will go to checking the weight of the pots for now. PS. I have had a successful first grow and now Im trying to new things to learn more, so I did change some things, to many at once I guess, LOL!

Alright to answer some of your other "?'s" First set pics are of small plants started from seed in an areo garden starter sponge and clay in pots, inside a rectangle 2 inch deep dish, summerged in a shallow nute solution, plants looked great, very healthy and ready for transplanting and so I did. Moved them in to the ebb and flow pots with more clay, set into the system and a new nute diet solution was made and watering times set with timer. so not sure about over watering on these plants according to info I've gotten for just using clay because they dont retain alot of water. I was told just dont feed them longer than 30 mins at a time. so I went with 30mins at first every few hours and off during dark period. I have since gone to a 15mins on every 4hrs, and off during dark period, as suggested by my local guy. All the plants in all pics are on a 17/7 on/off light regiment for veg. with a 12 bulb T5 (60,000 lumens) and another 8 bulb T5 (40,000 lumens)on the wall thats only half on right now, All "blues" in right now. So in short I think the Light is good. LOL! air temp is anywhere from 75 to 80 depending on all the intake/outtake/circulation fan cycles. so I think thats all good as well, humidity is fine, water temp is good now at 75 to 77. The water temp could have been a problem when first transplanted, because it was cold outside that week and water was stored on my porch after i had got it from a R/O machine out front of my complex and that machine is also running off of a well. so my water starts at a reading of 350 ppms before I add any nutes. Not true R/O I know, but how do I know whats still in IT? nute wise?

Okay, now about some of my nute products. Im using a complete Ph balancing nute from "Areo garden" you can check it out if you like go to there site. but its good it works very well. I was using a nitrogen supplement from grotek called insta green. I have stopped using this for now. till I figure out how to mix nutes properly, lol. I have gone ahead and bought "GH" cal mag sup. for the fact I'm using of R/O water, from what research I did this could be the problem. Nitrogen over could be result of insta green and me not mixing properly.

The reason I think I got away from what was working is, I adopted the use of a PPM meter and I really didnt know how to use it properly there fore I have been having issues because I got away from following the directions for dosage amounts on the nute containers and strictly reading my meter to get proper PPM reading so I was mixing accordingly, which in short was cutting back way to much on BASE nute. to add supplements. I have done a complete flush Of both systems and started with separate and new nute solutions in both as well. I have added a small amount of "superthrive" to my nute solution, at the suggestion of my local guy. Was this a Good Idea? So by taking everyone's helpful advise and the advise of my local hydro store guys, I hope to have a turn around very soon. fingers crossed.

Okay I have another question for you guys please. what are some of causes of Phosphorus def. I ask because the "super" red/purple stems indicate such a def. according to my local guys. Can all of the other issues we have discussed have a relation, Also what are other causes of redish/purple stems? Or Is this a general sign of all kinds of stress? kinda of a stupid "?" I know but no "?" is the most stupid "?", lol! remember I'm novice, but eager to learn as much as possible without getting to over loaded at once. Im not a "slow Learner", just want to be sure I'm learning it correctly and not just interpitating things the way I want to and not really learning anything about Horiculture.

 

[Grand Daddy Purp]

Since I am not a hydro guy I am of little use. As far as red stems I have had strains be completely healthy and still have some red stems through out a grow.

 

[Half Pipe]

Thanks bro, Im aware there are strains with red or purple stems. but there only a few from what I understand. This strain is not, I have already grown it and they didnt do this before so Im pretty sure this is nute/stress related.

 

[Xlr8]

Okay, thank you so much everyone for all the great info.

I went to my local grow store and talk to them about some of my issues and they said similar things. you all did have an advantage, you had pics to look at. LOL!

so first to clear some thing up the picture with the water that was in the system was because it just happened to be when the "timer" pump was on as fuzzy duck pointed out. that timer was on for 15 mins every 12 hrs. These plants are clones "jack flash" strain. that Started in an Areo garden. They were very healthy and ready for transplanting. So Inside the "fabric" pots is a layer of clay on the bottom 2in and then a layer of "ff" starter soil in the middle, and then 1/2in layer of some more clay on top as "mulch " so to speak. The "ff" starter soil in the middle, was suppose to be similar to the "pro mix soiless" that came with the purchase of the botanicare ebb and flow system, which I was using before. anyways the water drains rather quickly as well in these pots so Im not sure how much water is being retained in the soil, so I will go to checking the weight of the pots for now. PS. I have had a successful first grow and now Im trying to new things to learn more, so I did change some things, to many at once I guess, LOL!

Alright to answer some of your other "?'s" First set pics are of small plants started from seed in an areo garden starter sponge and clay in pots, inside a rectangle 2 inch deep dish, summerged in a shallow nute solution, plants looked great, very healthy and ready for transplanting and so I did. Moved them in to the ebb and flow pots with more clay, set into the system and a new nute diet solution was made and watering times set with timer. so not sure about over watering on these plants according to info I've gotten for just using clay because they dont retain alot of water. I was told just dont feed them longer than 30 mins at a time. so I went with 30mins at first every few hours and off during dark period. I have since gone to a 15mins on every 4hrs, and off during dark period, as suggested by my local guy. All the plants in all pics are on a 17/7 on/off light regiment for veg. with a 12 bulb T5 (60,000 lumens) and another 8 bulb T5 (40,000 lumens)on the wall thats only half on right now, All "blues" in right now. So in short I think the Light is good. LOL! air temp is anywhere from 75 to 80 depending on all the intake/outtake/circulation fan cycles. so I think thats all good as well, humidity is fine, water temp is good now at 75 to 77. The water temp could have been a problem when first transplanted, because it was cold outside that week and water was stored on my porch after i had got it from a R/O machine out front of my complex and that machine is also running off of a well. so my water starts at a reading of 350 ppms before I add any nutes. Not true R/O I know, but how do I know whats still in IT? nute wise?

Okay, now about some of my nute products. Im using a complete Ph balancing nute from "Areo garden" you can check it out if you like go to there site. but its good it works very well. I was using a nitrogen supplement from grotek called insta green. I have stopped using this for now. till I figure out how to mix nutes properly, lol. I have gone ahead and bought "GH" cal mag sup. for the fact I'm using of R/O water, from what research I did this could be the problem. Nitrogen over could be result of insta green and me not mixing properly.

The reason I think I got away from what was working is, I adopted the use of a PPM meter and I really didnt know how to use it properly there fore I have been having issues because I got away from following the directions for dosage amounts on the nute containers and strictly reading my meter to get proper PPM reading so I was mixing accordingly, which in short was cutting back way to much on BASE nute. to add supplements. I have done a complete flush Of both systems and started with separate and new nute solutions in both as well. I have added a small amount of "superthrive" to my nute solution, at the suggestion of my local guy. Was this a Good Idea? So by taking everyone's helpful advise and the advise of my local hydro store guys, I hope to have a turn around very soon. fingers crossed.

Okay I have another question for you guys please. what are some of causes of Phosphorus def. I ask because the "super" red/purple stems indicate such a def. according to my local guys. Can all of the other issues we have discussed have a relation, Also what are other causes of redish/purple stems? Or Is this a general sign of all kinds of stress? kinda of a stupid "?" I know but no "?" is the most stupid "?", lol! remember I'm novice, but eager to learn as much as possible without getting to over loaded at once. Im not a "slow Learner", just want to be sure I'm learning it correctly and not just interpitating things the way I want to and not really learning anything about Horiculture.

Hey 420ramrod! Don't worry, you'll get it all clicking again. Also, it's the challenges that you learn from. You learn nothing when everything goes right. Sometimes, I learn too much this way, though, lol!

With soil and what you describe in those pots, even though they are "Smart Pots" which dry faster, you are probably feeding/watering too frequently still. The pots should feel almost ridiculously "light weight" when they are ready to be fed/watered again. For a true Ebb style grow, you are probably better off (in the future) with a different medium, allowing more frequent waterings. You don't want organic materials to stay too wet for too long, or bad things can happen. I'd keep soil and most soilless mixes away from an "active" hydro system (yours is), honestly. I'd leave just the clay pebble plants in your hydro system, and hand water the rest.

For pots with just hydroton, you really can't over-water. Water as often as you like with those. On the others... As mentioned, make a habit of lifting your pots to get a sense for how much they weigh at given moisture levels. Usually, they feel ridiculously "light" when it's time for watering/feeding. This applies to soil and soilless mixes like coco coir. Not for if you are using solely hydroton or clay pebbles.

If your water is 350ppm to begin with, it's not really RO. That's pretty high for "water", and it's mostly made up of calcium that our plants have a hard time utilizing (as opposed to other forms of calcium which our plants can take in easier and love). Still, the cal/mag may not be necessary, except in low dosages (maybe 1/2 what they recommend). If it's possible to find a water source with lower PPM's that might help.

I wouldn't sweat purple stems right now, it's difficult to say when that's genetic or not. It's a really common trait in many strains/phenos.

How are your temps, heat, RH? Any bugs flying around? Over watered soil/soilless mixes are magnets for fungus gnats and other bugs, which can also make a plant look reallly sad.

Superthrive is fine, and good. I'd stick to this and primarily your base nutrients until things get going better again. That's all they really need for now if you're giving them the right base nutes.

I'll keep thinking - hopefully some of this helps a little.

 

[Half Pipe]

Thanks man I really appreciate the advice. The temp in my grow room is 75 to 80 at the most if I see it at 80 I usually take measures to bring it down. it stays at about 77 for the most part. The rh is 50 or higher sometimes depending on weather outside, right now humidity is kinda low being winter and all, but its high humidity most of the time down south in my part of the country. lol! I have 2 ac wall units in my place. both are directed right at area, so it keeps humidity low for me in there, which I like. No sign of bugs at all, as far as I can tell. lol. Im kinda aware of what to be on the look out for if this does become an issue in the future. My problem comes with the nute def. or nute tox., or the over /under watering. because so many of the problems seem to relate to one another its hard to figure out where to start making a correction or pin pointing my exact nute problem if that is even the prob., does that make sense? lol! thanks Xlr8 you have already helped a bunch.

 

[Half Pipe]

Im going to keep posting so I can do private messaging sooner than later, lol. How long will it be for severe dark red or purple stems take to recover? Do they recover? This strain (jack flash) shouldnt have them. I did have a first successful run with this strain and they did not do this, at least not to this point of extreme. Here is another pic now almost a week later! this is also after I have taken steps to correct last thursday early AM. my local guy said damage leaves wont come back to remove them I did. I flushed added new solution to res. I am going to water the ones in soil much less of course, lol

 

[Half Pipe]

can you see how severe the stems are will these return to green? The plants are starting to return slowly. I believe I over watered the soil ones for sure. I let this problem way go to far, thinking it was transplanting shock or something else and kinda just waited to see if they would come back, before I started trying to correct things.

 

[Xlr8]

Maybe I missed it, but do you know the strength of the nutrients you've been giving them? They do appear to also have a deficiency related to possible over-feeding or salt build-up, causing certain nutrients to be locked out, perhaps.

Re-reading JBC's post and giving a second look, I think he is on to something perhaps. Honestly, I'm not sure if the stem color will change back or not. As you mentioned, leaf damage is permanent.

 

[Half Pipe]

Here are some other pics of these from the top. now I think I have this problem, LOL! see

pic descrip

 

[Half Pipe]

Or it might be going away Im goin to keep an eye on them to see but they are sarting to grow again I think, LOL!

 

[Half Pipe]

yes the strength of the base was way low at first. I had cut back on base nute to add (N) supplement and get a proper ppm reading the guys at the store said this is where I made the mistake possibly because I wasnt using the meter properly "so to speak" I was reading right but using it as a sole instrument to determine my nute stregnth. the guys at the store told me to always follow the directions for the base nutes first, then add supplements if needed or wanted. whats your opinion? how do I determine exactly how to use this ppm meter top my advantage? plus my RO water isnt really RO water in combination with the other things I am not sure how to fix my problem and exactly whats wrong.

 

[Xlr8]

Or it might be going away Im goin to keep an eye on them to see but they are sarting to grow again I think, LOL!

They do look better!

There are signs in those pics confirming that they were "burned" by the nutrients, though, so that tells us something. See how the leaf tips are brown, for example?

Also, if you see the damage up top, it exists in the roots, too, contributing to a sick plant. I would love to know the "EC" of your nutrients.

I would also like to suggest better nutrients for our type of plant when/if you can. I'm sure those will work, but they are prob not ideal (I went to site and checked them out). For the money, the sponsor here, Blue Planet Nutrients is hard to beat, but the hydro store can probably recommend something good, too. If you go that route, feel free to bounce suggestions off of me if you'd like. 2 or 3 part nutrients are what I prefer. Tough for single part nutrients to do it all, as some minerals don't mix well. Though, they do exist to some extent. Just a thought - might make your life a bit easier as it relates to the grow.