PH drops significantly only two weeks into veg

[RaggedyMan]

I have 2 banana kush autos in dwc that are 16 days old and growing beautifully. My system is 40 gallons and I use the full line of gh nutrients. My ph has been steady dropping daily so I changed the rez yesterday and adjusted the ph to 6.5, this morning it was 5.6. Ppm went from 260 to 250
I have used this particular system, lights (Mars hydro ts2000), nutrients, etc for 3 other grows with no problem. The only difference is I have only 2 plants where I normally have 6.
What in the world could be causing this? I’m used to ph dropping during flower but never have I experienced this.

 

[Rexer]

I have 2 banana kush autos in dwc that are 16 days old and growing beautifully. My system is 40 gallons and I use the full line of gh nutrients. My ph has been steady dropping daily so I changed the rez yesterday and adjusted the ph to 6.5, this morning it was 5.6. Ppm went from 260 to 250
I have used this particular system, lights (Mars hydro ts2000), nutrients, etc for 3 other grows with no problem. The only difference is I have only 2 plants where I normally have 6.
What in the world could be causing this? I’m used to ph dropping during flower but never have I experienced this.

Hey RaggedyMan,

Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Are you running sterile or using beneficials?

I've seen a few people run into this problem, I'll see what I can dig up & remember.

What order are you adding your nutrients?

 

[Rexer]

So I did a bit more digging. Wish I had come across the article I read before when helping a different member. I think I know what's going on.

What's your PPM been like? Have you been seeing rises?

I suspect what's happening is your nute solution needs a bump in PPM. When the solution is too weak, the plant leaches nutes back into the res, which is why you'll see a slight rise. That same leaching process can effect your PH, causing the PH drop your seeing.

Another possibility is light getting into the reservoir. But since this isn't your 1st grow with the system, I think it less likely.

Bump your nutrients by increments of 50 PPM, let me/us know how it handles it.

 

[RaggedyMan]

Hey RaggedyMan,

Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Are you running sterile or using beneficials?

I've seen a few people run into this problem, I'll see what I can dig up & remember.

What order are you adding your nutrients?

I have 3 tanks like the one in the picture all plumbed together with 2.5” pvc. The 3rd tank is not used for growing but as an access point for maintenance, chiller hoses and ppm/ph monitor. There is a pump moving the solution from the maintenance tub to the first tub in line. I also have a 5 gallon bucket plumbed to it with a valve to have a few extra gallons available for their more thirsty days
I can’t make the gh feeding schedule I use post here but if you’re familiar with it I use about everything on that chart. I do add the 2 products in the picture after advice from someone as I was having leaf issues grow after grow and they always looked pitiful. Since using those 2 products I have had nothing but success……but I digress.
When changing the rez I generally mix my nutrients in a 5 gallon bucket and pour in after the rez is mostly full. I’ll add silica first, calmag next, micro, grow, bloom then the diamond nectar, florablend, etc. after an hour or so I’ll adjust the ph. When simply boosting the ppm I’ll add it the nutrients one at a time in the same order to the maintenance tub

 

[RaggedyMan]

So I did a bit more digging. Wish I had come across the article I read before when helping a different member. I think I know what's going on.

What's your PPM been like? Have you been seeing rises?

I suspect what's happening is your nute solution needs a bump in PPM. When the solution is too weak, the plant leaches nutes back into the res, which is why you'll see a slight rise. That same leaching process can effect your PH, causing the PH drop your seeing.

Another possibility is light getting into the reservoir. But since this isn't your 1st grow with the system, I think it less likely.

Bump your nutrients by increments of 50 PPM, let me/us know how it handles it.

I boosted the nutrients yesterday by 50 to get to the 250 I’m at now. I read a much older post when I was researching where there was talk of lowering the ppm to prevent a ph drop problem but they were talking about in flower stages though. I don’t go much over 350ppm at any point in the grow with autos as they’ve just never needed it. I’ve been watching them and not seeing obvious signs of nutrient burn I try to bump up the ppm when I can

 

[sneekymofo]

Hey Raggedy! I use GH in a 40 gallon setup or so with 4 plants, and now that I have been watching pH, there is supposed to be the rise and fall of pH with the nutrients as they get used up. That being said, I think Rexer might be right. I generally don’t let the plants sit in water longer than a week, but this grow has been brutal with travel and I’ve been torturing them a little beyond normal. But a shift that fast after a rez change tells me that there is something in there pulling it down. Unfamiliar with the additional two products and how they might be impacting. Are you using Mr Fulvic and GH’s stuff?

 

[Rexer]

I have 3 tanks like the one in the picture all plumbed together with 2.5” pvc. The 3rd tank is not used for growing but as an access point for maintenance, chiller hoses and ppm/ph monitor. There is a pump moving the solution from the maintenance tub to the first tub in line. I also have a 5 gallon bucket plumbed to it with a valve to have a few extra gallons available for their more thirsty days
I can’t make the gh feeding schedule I use post here but if you’re familiar with it I use about everything on that chart. I do add the 2 products in the picture after advice from someone as I was having leaf issues grow after grow and they always looked pitiful. Since using those 2 products I have had nothing but success……but I digress.
When changing the rez I generally mix my nutrients in a 5 gallon bucket and pour in after the rez is mostly full. I’ll add silica first, calmag next, micro, grow, bloom then the diamond nectar, florablend, etc. after an hour or so I’ll adjust the ph. When simply boosting the ppm I’ll add it the nutrients one at a time in the same order to the maintenance tub

Sounds and looks like a well thought out system! Only thing that I personally would do, is limit the number of plants in each tub, so that their roots can't become tangled. But that has nothing to do with your current situation.

I boosted the nutrients yesterday by 50 to get to the 250 I’m at now. I read a much older post when I was researching where there was talk of lowering the ppm to prevent a ph drop problem but they were talking about in flower stages though. I don’t go much over 350ppm at any point in the grow with autos as they’ve just never needed it. I’ve been watching them and not seeing obvious signs of nutrient burn I try to bump up the ppm when I can

Ahhh dude your starvin those poor things!
Yup- that is exactly what is going on.

I grow Autos exclusively. The minimum PPM (using the x5 scale), I shoot for is 800 PPM, but I listen to the plants for the feed.

I'm going to include a chart here, refer to it twice a day if you have time. Once things have been sorted.

Do you have a grow journal? If you do, drop me a link and if you'd like I'll follow along and help out where I can. If you don't have one- it might be something to consider, feel free to start one and tag me. Also feel free to tag me whenever.

I think my friend, you are on the cusp of truly upping your harvest numbers. You've got all the right equipment, and a good feel for everything...but with just a few small changes you can probably get much much bigger yields.

I just started a journal, feel free to jump in if you have any questions or want to follow along.

Here is the chart, often referred to as the Hydro Bible

 

[RaggedyMan]

Hey Raggedy! I use GH in a 40 gallon setup or so with 4 plants, and now that I have been watching pH, there is supposed to be the rise and fall of pH with the nutrients as they get used up. That being said, I think Rexer might be right. I generally don’t let the plants sit in water longer than a week, but this grow has been brutal with travel and I’ve been torturing them a little beyond normal. But a shift that fast after a rez change tells me that there is something in there pulling it down. Unfamiliar with the additional two products and how they might be impacting. Are you using Mr Fulvic and GH’s stuff?

Yes, most all of the gh line up, the microblast and mr fulvic. I started using all the gh nutrients last year as a test and not sure I’ll continue after they are used up. Never had any problems, I’m just not sure it’s worth the extra cash. The microblast and mr fulvic I’ll keep, I’ve never been happier with the results since I started using them.

 

[RaggedyMan]

Sounds and looks like a well thought out system! Only thing that I personally would do, is limit the number of plants in each tub, so that their roots can't become tangled. But that has nothing to do with your current situation.


Ahhh dude your starvin those poor things!
Yup- that is exactly what is going on.

I grow Autos exclusively. The minimum PPM (using the x5 scale), I shoot for is 800 PPM, but I listen to the plants for the feed.

I'm going to include a chart here, refer to it twice a day if you have time. Once things have been sorted.

Do you have a grow journal? If you do, drop me a link and if you'd like I'll follow along and help out where I can. If you don't have one- it might be something to consider, feel free to start one and tag me. Also feel free to tag me whenever.

I think my friend, you are on the cusp of truly upping your harvest numbers. You've got all the right equipment, and a good feel for everything...but with just a few small changes you can probably get much much bigger yields.

I just started a journal, feel free to jump in if you have any questions or want to follow along.

Here is the chart, often referred to as the Hydro Bible

I just found that chart in my files 15 minutes ago and was about to post it. I was thinking about the air pump. It’s several years old but still works well. Instead of the 6 plants I normally run (going to only 4 or less from here on) I only have 2 but I’ve left the bubblers run still in all 3 tubs…….too much air?
I’ll bump up the ppm. Im a little nervous about it but we’ll see. I’ve never gone higher than 350ish even in flower and had excellent results so I never tried any higher.

 

[Rexer]

I just found that chart in my files 15 minutes ago and was about to post it. I was thinking about the air pump. It’s several years old but still works well. Instead of the 6 plants I normally run (going to only 4 or less from here on) I only have 2 but I’ve left the bubblers run still in all 3 tubs…….too much air?
I’ll bump up the ppm. Im a little nervous about it but we’ll see. I’ve never gone higher than 350ish even in flower and had excellent results so I never tried any higher.

Well, C02 being pumped in can cause that. But you would need a rather large amount of C02 to my understanding. And since you didn’t mention a C02 system, or a new air pump, then I'd considered it moot (doesn't mean I'm wrong).


Are you using RO water or tap water?

If you don't feel comfortable with bumping, feel free not to. It's advice, and at the end of the day, you have all the variables, not us/me. And better advice might come in, I'll never be upset for waiting for more advice nor take offense to it...in fact I encourage you to.

Also, I'm not highly experienced. But I've soaked up what I feel to be a decent amount of knowledge.

I will say, you do have me intrigued about having good harvests at that low of a PPM and I'd love to see some pics? Not baiting you, I seriously am intrigued.

Here's a pic of a seedling 3 days in the bucket. The PPM (mostly cal mag) right now as of this morning is 267. And I have three in the system (all autos) on that feed. That's why I'm intrigued.

Sounds like your mixing your nutes correctly (i didn't think that was the case, but it's quick and easy to rule out).

Have you had any rises in your PPM? How often have you been checking?

 

[RaggedyMan]

Well, C02 being pumped in can cause that. But you would need a rather large amount of C02 to my understanding. And since you didn’t mention a C02 system, or a new air pump, then I'd considered it moot (doesn't mean I'm wrong).


Are you using RO water or tap water?

If you don't feel comfortable with bumping, feel free not to. It's advice, and at the end of the day, you have all the variables, not us/me. And better advice might come in, I'll never be upset for waiting for more advice nor take offense to it...in fact I encourage you to.

Also, I'm not highly experienced. But I've soaked up what I feel to be a decent amount of knowledge.

I will say, you do have me intrigued about having good harvests at that low of a PPM and I'd love to see some pics? Not baiting you, I seriously am intrigued.

Here's a pic of a seedling 3 days in the bucket. The PPM (mostly cal mag) right now as of this morning is 267. And I have three in the system (all autos) on that feed. That's why I'm intrigued.

Sounds like your mixing your nutes correctly (i didn't think that was the case, but it's quick and easy to rule out).

Have you had any rises in your PPM? How often have you been checking?

I use tap water that’s at 80ppm and 7.7ph.
And I’m going to bump it up around 50ppm each time till I “see something” good or bad. I don’t mind experimenting with this grow as the only reason I’m doing it now is because my first outdoor grow (and dirt grow) is slowly becoming an epic failure. We just became legal so I thought I could save some expense by using free light. Anyhow, if I lose these I still have plenty in stock and what little I get from the dirt grow

 

[RaggedyMan]

I use a blue lab guardian so all I ever have to do is open the door to take a look at the numbers. I couldn’t find any pics from previous grows as they’ve all been “illegal” so once I showed them to my other grow buddies I deleted them.

 

[Rexer]

I use tap water that’s at 80ppm and 7.7ph.
And I’m going to bump it up around 50ppm each time till I “see something” good or bad. I don’t mind experimenting with this grow as the only reason I’m doing it now is because my first outdoor grow (and dirt grow) is slowly becoming an epic failure. We just became legal so I thought I could save some expense by using free light. Anyhow, if I lose these I still have plenty in stock and what little I get from the dirt grow

With an attitude like that, im sure you'll get these girls on track.

When you do the 1st bump, start with a fresh res (I know its a pain).

What cal mag are you using?

Just from glancing at the photo, a guesstimate target PPM of 350 is normal for that size....so a bump of 50 PPM should be fine. At this stage, a good base of cal mag (roughly 100-150 PPM ), plus the trio to make up the additional PPM.

Are you using H202 or beneficial bacteria? I know you've got your res Temps under control but, you should have one or the other in there to help keep your roots healthy. If you don't have any, there are some good products that work amazing at reasonable prices, while some work just as well at insane prices. Feel free to ask and I can give you a list of products that'll work and are affordable.

I've zero doubts that they'll get back on track (your willingness to try changes are a key factor). My last grow was a shit show till I got the nutes dialed in, then it turned into my best ever. Let's see if we can do the same for yours.

And don't worry about the photos, I thought to ask but it's all good and I understand.

And your water source sounds fantastic!

 

[RaggedyMan]

With an attitude like that, im sure you'll get these girls on track.

When you do the 1st bump, start with a fresh res (I know its a pain).

What cal mag are you using?

Just from glancing at the photo, a guesstimate target PPM of 350 is normal for that size....so a bump of 50 PPM should be fine. At this stage, a good base of cal mag (roughly 100-150 PPM ), plus the trio to make up the additional PPM.

Are you using H202 or beneficial bacteria? I know you've got your res Temps under control but, you should have one or the other in there to help keep your roots healthy. If you don't have any, there are some good products that work amazing at reasonable prices, while some work just as well at insane prices. Feel free to ask and I can give you a list of products that'll work and are affordable.

I've zero doubts that they'll get back on track (your willingness to try changes are a key factor). My last grow was a shit show till I got the nutes dialed in, then it turned into my best ever. Let's see if we can do the same for yours.

And don't worry about the photos, I thought to ask but it's all good and I understand.

And your water source sounds fantastic!

I came about those lower ppm numbers throughout my grows as I would check the rez every morning and if the ppm dropped I would up it 30 or more points and then wait till the next morning. If it dropped, bump it up again. If it didn’t drop or it went up I would leave it where it was. This worked for me using the Lucas formula previously so I stuck with the concept since then while using the full line up of nutrients. Perhaps I’ve been way off but being very happy with the end results never tried anything different. It’s going to be interesting to see how almost doubling the nutrients will work for me

 

[Rexer]

I came about those lower ppm numbers throughout my grows as I would check the rez every morning and if the ppm dropped I would up it 30 or more points and then wait till the next morning. If it dropped, bump it up again. If it didn’t drop or it went up I would leave it where it was. This worked for me using the Lucas formula previously so I stuck with the concept since then while using the full line up of nutrients. Perhaps I’ve been way off but being very happy with the end results never tried anything different. It’s going to be interesting to see how almost doubling the nutrients will work for me

I'd love to see you do a journal on here if you ever get the time (I understand it's not always doable with busy lives).

You know there is an important question I should have asked. When checking your PPM, what scale are you using, the x5, or x7? (Those plus EC are the only two I know off hand, also called the 500 or 700 scales).

Hey, what your doing as explained in your last post (quoted) is pretty much exactly as you should. So...maybe something else is afloat. I'd still give her a bump of 30~50 PPM, if she leaches back into the res, dilute it down past and get her drinking again.

Your PH up/down...what brand are you using?

 

[RaggedyMan]

I'd love to see you do a journal on here if you ever get the time (I understand it's not always doable with busy lives).

You know there is an important question I should have asked. When checking your PPM, what scale are you using, the x5, or x7? (Those plus EC are the only two I know off hand, also called the 500 or 700 scales).

Hey, what your doing as explained in your last post (quoted) is pretty much exactly as you should. So...maybe something else is afloat. I'd still give her a bump of 30~50 PPM, if she leaches back into the res, dilute it down past and get her drinking again.

Your PH up/down...what brand are you using?

I thought about the ph scale thing and even looked while I was in there and never posted it but I am using the 500 scale.
I use GH’s up/down

 

[RaggedyMan]

Here’s where we’re at after an hour or so. I’ll leave it alone now until tomorrow morning

 

[Rexer]

I thought about the ph scale thing and even looked while I was in there and never posted it but I am using the 500 scale.
I use GH’s up/down

Hmm well I truly don't know what else might be a cause. Thanks for answering the questions, maybe something in there might prompt another member to see something missed. Hopefully it'll be as simple as that bump.

 

[RaggedyMan]

So it went from 6.2 to 5.6 overnight
The ppm did not change
I bumped the ppm & ph up quite a bit again, we’ll see what it looks like tomorrow. Kind of anxious as I’ll be gone the weekend, at the current drop rate my rez will be an acid bath by Monday

 

[RaggedyMan]

Yesterday I left it at 6.4 ph, 400ppm
This morning ppm same, ph down .7 points
At 60ml a day of ph up I better by another gallon
I think I’ll drain (2nd time in 3 days) the rez and go through each tank to see if something is in there causing this. As I’ve never encountered this in previous grows something is definitely fucked up.
Maybe one of the nutes has gone bad? I did have a bottle of flora nectar mold on me last grow so I quit using it all together