Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 2017

[Scientific]

Hi everyone -- I have a new science project. Your comments and assistance are most welcome!

STRAIN: Crop King Dwarf Low Flyer autoflower (70% Indica, 20% Sativa, 10% Ruderalis)

LIGHTING:

• Bulbs: 4 Luxrite 23-watt, 1600 lumen, 6500 K compact fluorescent in a hanging parabolic reflector
• Light cycle: 24/7 till harvest. No sleep till Brooklyn!

HYDROPONICS:

• Mechanics: Sirius Fourside's "Bubbleponics" deep water culture (DWC) design with top feed
• Nutrients: General Hydroponics FloraGrow + FloraBloom + FloraMicro + CALiMAGic + Hydroguard bacillus root inoculant
• Nutrient refresh cycle: Weekly
• Hydroponic nutrient volume: 2.5 gallons
• Water pump: Eco66 submersible
• Distribution manifold: DIG 6-Outlet Adjustable Drip Manifold
• Air pump: National Tech Enterprise piezoelectric aquarium air pump, model YDQB4104 (tiny guy)
• Starting substrate: Grodan A-OK 1"x1" rockwool cube
• Working Substrate: Leca Clay Orchid/Hydroponic Grow Media, a.k.a. Hydroton
• Net cup: Used 4" plastic flower pot with a bunch of 5/16" holes drilled in it
• Reservoir Iris four gallon clear plastic storage box, 24" x 16" x 6" filled to a depth of about 2.5" and light-proofed with black shelf paper and Al foil.
• pH: Adjusted to 6 from 7 starting (very soft water here--essentially RO)

GROWING:

• The plan (such as it is...): Use "no technique" training--just bending the plant hard over to the right--to grow a bonsai in a breadbox. Training and trimming is the part that I am least knowledgeable and least confident about. (Actually I have no idea what I'm doing whatsoever.)
• Grow Room: My fireplace! It's really small, but you can't beat the built-in exhaust port and convenient location.
• Ventilation: Natural draft of the fireplace augmented with a 6" clip-on fan and a 140 mm computer fan
• Current temp/humidity (with 3 of 4 bulbs on): 74 F, 38% (warmer and drier than I'd like it)

STARTED: March 21, 2017

This will be just one dwarf plant growing in a very confined space (about 26" wide, 19" deep, with a 19" high opening (that goes higher--up the chimney!)


Dwarf Low Flyer seedling, day 7


I used a 6" tall reservoir because the fireplace opening is only 19" tall. The manifold it press-fit onto the top of the pump. One line irrigates the pot. The other five are splayed out in the reservoir to encourage circulation and are used to empty the reservoir for the weekly refresh cycle.


Fireplace closed up (it has light baffle air intakes and a peephole)


Fireplace opened. Reflector is adjustable up/down and left/right. The plan is to train the plant to grow to the right (and up of course...).


Reflector with four, 23-watt CFLs The flower pot wrapped in Al foil is just a plug in the access hole.


Home-made net-pot with Cocoa Puffs


The reflector on the pot is supposed to also limit algae growth on the substrate.

What seemed like a simple, inexpensive project has cost a lot more time and $$ than I expected, but I'm having fun with it. Wish me luck and please let me know what you think!

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Here's a Sketchup rendering of the fireplace dimensions.
The arch structure is just a piece of hardware cloth that I stuck up in there to hang the light and fan from.
The round thing 45" up is the damper.

 

[Gardenseed]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Looks good man, cant wait to see what happens. I'm taking a front row seat for the show.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

I checked the baby before heading off to bed and noticed that the leaf tips were drooping noticeably. The humidity had been too low already, but with the new computer fan that I just set up this afternoon blowing directly on the seedling (it was kind of a test to see how much it would blow around), I'm pretty sure it was getting dried out. Humidity had dropped from about 39% to 35%.

I turned off the new fan (it might just need to be pointed away), turned off one light, and put the bowl of water back that I had forgotten to replace earlier.

Oops.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Day 10

Humidity is up to 42% this morning from 36% last night after I turned off one fan, added a bowl of water, and turned off one of three lights. The seedling's leaves are still looking a little bit droopy but I don't think it's a crisis.

Temperature is down to 70 or 71 from 73 after going back to just one light. With all four on, the temperature goes up to 78 and humidity down to 34% The plant, as far as I can see, tolerates those conditions OK, maybe because its roots are soaking wet all the time? Wild guess.

Fluid level is down 6 mm=10% of 2.5 gallons (320 fl. oz.) = 1 quart after four days, so I'm losing a cup a day. I guess with the low humidity at 72+ degrees, losing water shouldn't be surprising.

pH had climbed back up from about 6 to about 6.3 again (i.e. the indicator dye had a greenish tinge to the yellow). 0.5 ml of pH Down fixed it (in 2.5 gallons). I don't understand why the pH keeps drifting up. I know enough chemistry to think of some possible BS explanations, but really don't have a clue. After adding 10% more water I had to add another .25 ml of pH Down. All this chemistry and fluid handling is making me feel like a lab technician. I was going to say that after a week of work, I'm feeling like I can just relax and let the system run, but it looks like I'm a long way from autopilot.

Light: I'm going back to three bulbs on about 5" from the plant.

Growth & Nutrients: She's not as big at Day 10 as some I've seen grown in soil, and the principal justification for the complexity of a hydroponic grow is rapid growth. I'm using the recommended, low strength seedling concentrations of the nutrients and I'm wondering if that's why. I'm tempted to goose the nutrient levels, but patience seems like a better approach. (It usually is...) There aren't any signs of deficiency (for that matter, at 10 days it's probably still growing partially on its seed reserves?).

MODIFICATIONS:
Drilled more holes in the pot: Last night I started worrying that my home-made net pot didn't have enough holes in it. I knew that soon the plant's root system would prevent me from making mods easily, so this morning I pulled out the seedling to make more holes and was happy to discover that there's a half-inch root protruding on day 10. I read that besides nutrients, light, etc., a plant also needs "peace," and I have resolved not to subject this one to any more urban renewal projects.
Added a second water feed line to the pot The flow out the bottom looked a little low, so I added a second line. I also moved the lines higher up in the pot near the surface so I can see them and their flow easily.
Added a trellis: I screwed a piece of hardware cloth scrap to the top of the reservoir for anchoring training wires. (I realize the no one else does it this way; I'm makin' it up as I go along.)
Tidied up the wiring and hoses The reservoir takes up almost all of the floor space, leaving not much room for anything else. I rerouted wires, shortened the air hose, and generally squared away the grow area. When my girl gets bigger, fussing with stuff like this is going to be a real pain. Growing in a small area is a challenge...

Even though I'm following an established, successful method (Sirius Fourside's Bubbleponics), I'm still having to adapt and improvise to make this work with my particular implementation. I haven't killed her yet, so the Green Gods are with me so far.


Baby at day 10


Half-inch root poking out at day 10. I was really careful not to damage it. Clearly, the days of being able tear things apart are coming to an end...


I added a second feed line to improve flow through the pot and add redundancy.


Hardware cloth trellis screwed to reservoir for anchoring training wires. (It hinges at the middle of the reservoir so I can pop the right half of the cover up, at least until she gets big...)


The modified setup reassembled. The foil lined pot in front is just a plug for the access hole, but I decided to put it to work as a humidifier by filling it with water and adding a wick made from a paper towel.

That's a lot of technology devoted to a 1" tall weed.

I grabbed the sunglasses out of my glove compartment. Even just a couple of CFLs shining onto Al foil will blast your eyes pretty quick...

 

[chankylanky]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

The fireplace idea is genius!!!

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

The fireplace idea is genius!!!

Thanks Chanky! A full-size fireplace would be much easier to work in than my little toaster oven fireplace, but we do what we can with what we've got, eh?

 

[Scientific]

Too much water (i.e. not enough O2) in a hydroponics grow (?!?)

The drooping leaf tips I mentioned in post #4 four days ago have not gotten better. The seedling is slowly but steadily growing new leaves, but it has gotten not one bit taller in a week; it's only 1 inch tall 13 days after the seed hit the water. When I look at photos of other peoples' DLFs at this age, they are bigger and look better. Even the little DLF I have growing out on the deck under overcast skies and 47 degree temperatures looks healthier.

Causes I have considered are:

• Too much light (but I have reduced lighting to 2 CFLs)
• Too much wind from fan (but it's a small computer fan that's not pointed at the plant)
• Too high temperature (but I have the temperature under control now--about 72 to 74 F)
• Too many nutrients ("clawing" from too much nitrogen based on symptoms, but if anything it's been underfed.)
• Not enough nutrients (I did goof and gave it 40% strength nutrients for 5 days, but corrected that just last night)
• Not enough humidity (but I have the humidity under control now--about 40%)
• Not enough oxygen to the roots from too high a top-feed flow.

Having cogitated and read about this a lot, I'm almost sure it's the last one: drowning the roots. The rockwool has been pretty much saturated, and a few days ago there was only 1/2" of root sticking out below the rockwool. That might be 3" now for all I know, but even in hydroton pellets, I think it could still be not getting enough oxygen if it's all dripping wet.

So... I put the circulation pump on a two-hours-on, two-hours-off timer. I have read that other people just flood the roots for five minutes every two hours, but I'm afraid of them getting too dry that way. (That regimen would probably work with coir that has higher moisture retention, I'm thinking).

She's still alive and she's her leaves are developing every day, so I haven't killed her yet, and I'm confident that she'll do well once I get whatever the problem is figured out.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Wild guesses?

Only 1" tall at day 13 and curled leaves

 

[Scientific]

Re: Too much water (i.e. not enough O2) in a hydroponics grow (?!?)

I posted the photo and my concerns over on the Hydroponics forum and got a couple of confirmations of my suspicion that overwatering (that is, saturated rock wool suffocating the roots) is the problem.

The suggested fix was to strip away as much of the rock wool as possible, which I did. A lot. Like down to the roots. Now she's back in hydroton with continuous irrigation. I guess the next 12 hours will tell if she's gonna survive the tough love, but I'm optimistic.

 

[chankylanky]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Best of luck Scientific! The hydroponics is witchcraft to me. I'm glad you were able to get support on the other forum!

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

The hydroponics is witchcraft to me.

That's why I wanted to try it. Trippy stuff. That and, come to think of it, because I used to grow plants in my aquarium, so growing plants in water is not completely alien to me. (I used to even bubble CO2 into the aquarium, which was the limiting nutrient in aquatic systems, so it made the aquatic plants grow so fast they'd have oxygen bubbles streaming off the leaves...)

But I digress. Thanks for the encouragement and I'll report back with what happened with my baby, for good or ill.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal 2017

Day 16

After stripping away the soggy, suffocating rock wool from her roots on Day 13 and then gently placing the naked roots back in hydroton, three days later she is not only surviving but thriving. There's no denying that five days of oxygen deprivation stunted her; at day 16 she is much smaller than Dwarf Low Flyers in other grows here. Five days of lost vegetative growth for a plant that goes from seed to harvest in 60 days seems like a lot. It will be interesting to see how well she does now.

Day 13: Just before stripping away the rock wool. The tap root had broken out, so maybe the plant would have eventually gotten enough roots out in the air to do OK? (Since removing the rock wool, the tap root has grown over 1" a day and is now several inches out of the bottom of the pot and into the reservoir. I placed the air stone right where the root enters the water.)

Day 13: Stripped bare! Right after I took this picture, I put her naked roots went straight into hydroton. I assumed that if she didn't die from this rough treatment, she'd at least go into shock for a day or three, but instead as soon as that evening the plant started looking better.

Day 13: Just before stripping away the rock wool. Note the clawed leaves and stunting (she was also only 1" tall).
Day 16: This morning she is growing taller and wider and adding new leaves. The old leaves might be permanently deformed (clawed), but even they are looking better and turned upwards now.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

ALIEN!

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Dipping her toe into the reservoir on Day 16. That little tap root grew about 2" since yesterday!
(Gnarly DIY net pot, no?)

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Draining the old nutrients from the 2.5 gallon reservoir by running four 1/4" hoses into gallon milk jugs. It's a slow but workable system...

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Day 16 facts and figures (for those interested in more than just pictures )

Lighting All four 23-watt CFLs are on 24/7 about 3" over the plant. Maybe that's too much? It doesn't feel too warm, and I freely admit that I'm flogging the poor girl as much as I can to get her to grow and catch up.
pH: pH this morning was about 5.9 or so, in the range I'm trying to keep it. It was a little higher, so yesterday I added .25 ml of pH Down four times over the course of the day (that is, 1 ml into 2.5 gallons in 12 hours).
Air temp: 74
Water temp: 73
Humidity: 38%. Four CFLs in a small space can kind of turn into a dry oven, even with a 6" fan blowing up the chimney and a 140 mm computer fan blowing over a 13x9 pan of water with paper towels hanging in it. Outside it's 50 degrees with 90% humidity, so this seems kind of odd... I am working to increase the humidity with evaporative cooling, which will also lower the temperature.
Irrigation cycle: 3 hours on, 1 hour off The pump is on a timer that runs the pump for three hours, six times a day, with one hour off in between. My thinking is to give the roots some time in the air and maybe to grow outwards a little? Dunno, making this up as I go along. I have been reading about how to irrigate hydroton, and there seems to be no agreement on a best way, perhaps because they hold water pretty well. After my root suffocation experience I am suddenly very interested in O2 and roots.

Hydroton retains 77% of the water it absorbs for at least 4 hours
For anyone who is interested, here are the results of a little test I did on water retention in hydroton:

About 1 cup of dry hydroton: 100 grams
After soaking 12 hours in water: 126 grams
Sitting in a cup on the kitchen counter:
1 h: 122g, lost 4 grams water, so 84% of water retained
2 h: 120, lost 2 grams, so 77% of water retained
3 h: 120, no loss, 77% retained
4 h: 120, no loss, 77% retained

So hydroton seems to hold on to the water it takes up pretty well. There was still plenty of moisture after 4 hours, enough so that roots in them wouldn't dry out. That's what gave me the confidence to shut off the pump for an hour at a time.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Comparison between three Dwarf Low Flyer grows at about 16 days
I'm not trying to beat myself up, just trying to figure out how much five days of root anoxia set my girl back (and it's just interesting to compare grows of the same strain under similar circumstances).

AFnOOb's first Dwarf Low Flyer grow at about 16 days. About 8" across and third set of true leaves about 2" across?

CMJJMC2000's first Dwarf Low Flyer grow at 16 days. About 8" across and third set of true leaves about 2" across?

Scientific's first Dwarf Low Flyer grow at 16 days. The macro close-up distorts reality. She's only 2" across, and her third pair of true leaves are only barely emerging.

She's got some catching up to do before those preflowers start to form. I'm encouraged because CMJJMC2000's plant had mysterious spots at this point and it looked like the grow was kind of struggling, but it went on to be a success, so I'm guessing that it may be possible to recover after a fumble even on this very short timeline plant. God knows, it's getting all of it's needs tended to with all that technology can provide. Time will tell...

 

[chankylanky]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Scientific! Look at how well she's doing! Can't believe it was oxygen deprivation the whole time. I'm so curious to know if that time being stunted will take time off the clock or if it only put the clock on pause.

 

[Scientific]

Re: Scientific's Hydro Dwarf Low Flyer 24/7 Illumination Fireplace Grow Journal - 201

Scientific! Look at how well she's doing! Can't believe it was oxygen deprivation the whole time. I'm so curious to know if that time being stunted will take time off the clock or if it only put the clock on pause.

Thanks Chanky! She is kind of popping back, isn't she? It's kind of hard to believe after watching her struggle for a week. I too am curious about whether the flowering clock went on hold for 02 deprivation. I guess we'll know soon. Maybe I'm gonna have a 6" tall dwarfed Dwarf Low Flyer with one little bud growing out of the top. (That would be pretty cool, actually.)

Here's a shot from this evening. It looks like that first true leaf at the bottom center is permanently curled and not going to straighten out, so I guess it really is structural damage and not just lack of water to the cells (I guess you'd call that wilting) or something that is reversible. Plant pathology is interesting, but from now on with this grow I'm hoping to experience plant awesomeness. (Oh, and now that I look at it, you can see that the second true leaf at the extreme left is still hooked.)

Thanks for checking in and please stay tuned!

 

[Scientific]

Splitting open to add more roots?

Day 17

When I checked my girl this morning, I could see that her stalk was split!
I assumed this was yet another pathological condition, but when I pulled away some pebbles, I could see that what appears to be happening is massive root growth (probably/maybe a reaction to the rock wool being stripped away 4 days ago?).

I have had an aluminum foil light reflector on top of the hydroton to reflect light back up into the leaves and to block the light so as not to discourage root growth (and to discourage algae). My guess is that this I have been more successful than I would have guessed in "not discouraging root growth," and that by blocking the light above the "soil" line have sent a signal to the plant that the stalk above ground is actually underground so it's OK to put out roots there! (Or maybe she's just confused after all the handling she's had lately.)

I have removed the reflector so the stalk is now getting light all the way down into the pebbles, and I'm cautiously optimistic that now root development will stay below the surface. We shall see...

Stalk splitting (Note that you can still see some hooking of the lower leaves from the earlier O2 deprivation. I don't think those leaves are ever going to be quite right...)

Massive new root growth is good, but not above the surface. (I pulled away the top layer of pebbles to get this shot.)

Earlier shot showing the aluminum foil reflector. Its two pieces that mesh closely, so it forms a very effective light barrier. Too effective, apparently. I seem to have been confusing the plant into thinking that the stalk below the foil barrier was underground and thus fair game for root development. This reflector is gone now.

Four days after I stripped all the rock wool off her roots, this morning she's still looking healthy, and she is growing, so everything looks OK up in the canopy!