Timings for nutrients with Aeroponic set up?

OK, I went through some of my documentation and have some pics to share and my main question is finding the best way to ensure optimal nutrient delivery to my girl (focusing on cycle times for this part of the discussion). I know there are lots of variables so if we only look at cycle times, I am hoping to zero on on the cycle timing as the plants demands change. In my case, I started with a 27 gal tote and one 10" net pot. I chose to leave the cage in place to help with support but with hindsight being 20/20 I believe this may have lead to a slow start as the mist needed to get past the net pot cage and up into the small area for the initial tap root. I kept a humidity dome over the plant for the first week or two to help give her a chance to get started and because the net pot cage was so large I could not actually see a root until about day 14 and it wasn't until day 20 that she actually broke through, then I felt much better about ensuring should would get the right amount of mist...

I have looked at many pics on the net and I don't know whether it is a good thing or bad but my root structure looked very different than most pics (at least for a little while). keep this in mind for later as this is the main reason I found this thread. Without any real guidance, I was essentially experimenting through this entire DIY build and grow but feel positive about the variation.

Here are the roots at approx. day 25 (remember this is in a 10" net pot so there is a lot of space behind the cage).
My cycle times were somewhere around 5s on and 30s off here ( I played with 10s on and 100s off)

Meaghan_root1_day_25.jpg



Here they are 10 days later and my notes say I reduced the timing to 5s on and 3 min off (you can see they are very different than most pics I see - not trailing down to the bottom but fanning out which I think is a good sign)

Meaghan_root1_day_36.jpg



Here they are another 10 days later and my notes say I reduced the timing further to 5s on and 5 min off.

Meaghan_root1_day_45_RS.jpg



here they are another 10 days later

20201227_140234_RS.jpg



and here it is 20 days later.

20210117_144829_RS.jpg



Now that we are getting close to where i am today. That last photo of the complete plant was 2 weeks ago and now that I am in flower (this week will be week 4 of flower) I want to be careful about feeding so I am wondering if I should leave it as is ( you can see how much water is dripping from the root ball) or lower the cycle times in the hopes of keeping the full power of an aero envrionment?

My basic premise is that many of the aero setups I have seen are really blending into a DWC style grow (certainly at the end of the grow) once the roots are getting too wet - and by assumption; optimal growth slows. I am a little afraid of making too many changes at this stage but this should lead to a good discussion about feeding schedules and cycle time variations with respect to optimal growth and what to expect from your root structure and how it impacts the overall architecture of the plant above.

Thoughts?
 
leblanca said:
I have a few question on your setup as i struggled with transfer to the final grow chamber.
How did you start your plant from seed or clone?
Did you start your plant in the current tote?
Click to expand...

Yes, I started one seed on small block of rockwool in large 8/10" net pot. I used a pool noodle and cut it down to a size that would fit the outer diameter of the inside if the pot chamber snugly and then took up the rest of the space with more rockwool. The rockwool will give when the plant grows and help seal the root chamber. I did ensure my taproot was long enough to penetrate the bottom of the rockwool and keep a humidity dome on it for the first week. The roots will eventually fill the net pot area and equally pass through the cage and you will end up with the larger mass on the other side. This serves to give the plant some rigidity and support once it gets larger. My stem base is the size of my wrist but I will show more photos of that once l harvest (very soon).
 
leblanca said:
Inkbird IDT-E2RH timer...
Click to expand...

I wanted to say thank you again for the information on the inkbird (IDT-E2RH) PID timer. I finally got mine installed and had a chance to play with it so I wanted to revive this thread to see if we have more Aero guys out there that can talk about total consumption numbers observed on your grows?

There seems to be some ambiguity around feeding cycle times with varying results. I believe some of this is based on nutrient diversity and environment variables (but most of us strive for the same conditions) and since this is my first grow, I am trying to make observations where I can. I contacted the manufacturer of my product for confirmation about feeding expectations and variations with Aeroponic applications but until I hear back I am hoping some of the Aero guys can chime in... (doesn't seem to be many people playing with it these days?)

I am currently in week 8 of flower so I expected my consumption to slow down but since we are using a closed system, there is little to no evaporation to factor in and I found that my 1 northern lights auto was consuming approx 1.25 gal./day (consistently observed over weeks). Now, I was using an more basic analog timer that would not pulse shorter than 5 seconds on so my old strategy was to try and space my off cycle out to give the roots a chance to dry out. I believe this led an unwanted cycle of saturation and drying swings that was not optimal. This, combined with the problem of the roots bottoming out in the root chamber presents us with some challenges if we wavy to stay true to Aeroponics. Since I now have a new timer with more pricise control over timings, I tried to experiment (lightly) whereas I made some calculations about my flow rate and decided to try and spread my total consumption out evenly over 24 hrs.

Double-check my math here, but let's try to make some calculations and see if it jives with our expectations?

Basically, my one plant has been consuming 1.25 gal (4731.7ml)/day so I turned my misters on and let them run until I felt my return line was flowing steady and used a small glass to capture the run-off for 10 sec to get real flow rates (my misters did not have a flow rate metric that I could find). In my case, I was getting about 43-45ml per 10 seconds with a total of 4 misters (averaged over a couple samples). I converted this to a nutrient flow rate of 4.5ml/second and I took that data and compared it to my old timers configuration and I found that I was previously spraying 6192mls/24 hrs.

Now we can get to my main question, I have been working off the idea that to receive the optimal benefits of Aero, we want to avoid excess water in the root chamber (I know the plant will live if submerged like in a DWC) so if my calculations are correct, I have been spraying 25% more nutrient/water than the plant is consuming. In the spirit of experimentation, I made come calculations and decided to change my timer cycle values in an effort to get closer to the what my plant is actually consuming and have that, staggered out the delivery evenly over 24 hrs (I would also like to hear opinions about when the plants uptake the most nutrient in terms of the time of day).

Does anyone have an opinion on whether this sounds like a logical strategy or has anyone actually calculated your plants consumption number for various phases of growth?

Ok, so now on to an interesting observation. Right or wrong, my experiment actually resulted in what looks to be more consumption even while providing less nutrients? My first day resulted in the plant consuming 2 gal (3/4 gal. More) which seems off? I still need to confirm this since I only have data for one day and I was making alot of changes during the time but I will confirm tomorrow if the results are consistent.

If the data matches my results tomorrow, it makes sense to me in that the whole point of the Aero technology is to make nutrient uptake more efficient by providing a small amount of properly sized droplets to the root structure in that it can breathe and uptake nutrients efficiently.

I am wondering if this sounds plausible that my old timer settings limited my plants uptake by delivering too much nutrient solution (both the on cycle time and the overall amount over 24 hrs)? Now that I have reduced the total amount delivered, but at the same time increased the frequency of the misting cycles, I seem to be allowing the plant to uptake more efficiently resulting in more overall consumption?

Thoughts?
 
I will continue to collect some data and report back but my initial results seem to indicate that by reducing the overall amount of nutrient delivered (over24 hrs) by 25% and increasing the frequency of the "on" cycle with a shorter duration resulted in the plant consuming 62% more solution?

Numbers seem wrong and I did change alot in one day so I will try to confirm the trend tomorrow but thought it would be an interesting conversation...

If confirmed, the theory is that you can uptake more nutrients if the plants receives more frequent, shorter bursts which leads me to a new question; if true do I recalculate and adjust the new values again and see where the drift takes me?
 
lvumlow said:
I will continue to collect some data and report back but my initial results seem to indicate that by reducing the overall amount of nutrient delivered (over24 hrs) by 25% and increasing the frequency of the "on" cycle with a shorter duration resulted in the plant consuming 62% more solution?

Numbers seem wrong and I did change alot in one day so I will try to confirm the trend tomorrow but thought it would be an interesting conversation...

If confirmed, the theory is that you can uptake more nutrients if the plants receives more frequent, shorter bursts which leads me to a new question; if true do I recalculate and adjust the new values again and see where the drift takes me?
Click to expand...
It depends how you grow, im not too knowledgeable about fertilizer so i just follow a feed chart, and start by half strength and see next week how plant look, right now im going to 40% of manufacturer recommended dose and they seems to not burn.
I also am starting to look into plan sugar to know if my plant is happy, have ordered a refractometer and its suppose to indicate you a brix level, idealy its supposed to be over 12, we see if that works when i get it.
 
Ok, I finally have another full day of data and it looks like I made a conversion error when I was tracking consumption. After resetting and collecting another full day's worth of metrics, I can see that my girl is still consuming the same amount of solution in 24 hrs (1.25 gal) as previously documented.

Now, I believe there is still a good conversation to have here.....

My main focus right now is trying to find a way to confirm the plant is getting what it should, and when it should in terms of efficiency. I speculate that it is easy to be getting too much if they don't find a way to take a pulse of the plants actual consumption.

Previously, I made some calculations by measuring my waste return line to determine how much solution is being sprayed per second. With these calculations I determined that my cycle times (5s on and 5m off) where providing the plant with 25% more solution than the plant was actually consuming (in a 24 hrs period).

I made some new calculations to reduce the overall amount during 24 hrs but at the same time, shortened my mist (on) time but also increasing the frequency. The concept I am experimenting with is zeroing in on the optimal amount based on what the plant will uptake.

So, here is the bottom line.

Previously, my old timer settings were resulting in the plant getting 25% more solution than it was consuming (another way to look at it is the plant is only consuming 75% of what it is getting which I believe is resulting in over saturation). After a little math and some new calculations and a full day of observation, I am finding that the plant is now consuming 95% of what is being delivered and that sounds much more optimal.

If I am on to something here, it means that people may benefit from not only monitoring waste EC levels but also overall consumption? It will be different for everyone depending on the growth stage and how many plants but the important note here is to be aware and see if it jives with your configuration and/or estimations.

I have felt like my plant has not changed much in these final weeks of flower but in just the last day (with the changes I made) I am seeing all my flowers sprouting new tops (green) so the plant seems to be saying thank you?

I am not sure if I am on to something or not but it has been difficult to find any real conclusive information about aeroponic timer cycles and the role they play with feeding numbers so this is the only way I can think of confirming if I am going the right direction or not.
 
lvumlow said:
Ok, I finally have another full day of data and it looks like I made a conversion error when I was tracking consumption. After resetting and collecting another full day's worth of metrics, I can see that my girl is still consuming the same amount of solution in 24 hrs (1.25 gal) as previously documented.

Now, I believe there is still a good conversation to have here.....

My main focus right now is trying to find a way to confirm the plant is getting what it should, and when it should in terms of efficiency. I speculate that it is easy to be getting too much if they don't find a way to take a pulse of the plants actual consumption.

Previously, I made some calculations by measuring my waste return line to determine how much solution is being sprayed per second. With these calculations I determined that my cycle times (5s on and 5m off) where providing the plant with 25% more solution than the plant was actually consuming (in a 24 hrs period).

I made some new calculations to reduce the overall amount during 24 hrs but at the same time, shortened my mist (on) time but also increasing the frequency. The concept I am experimenting with is zeroing in on the optimal amount based on what the plant will uptake.

So, here is the bottom line.

Previously, my old timer settings were resulting in the plant getting 25% more solution than it was consuming (another way to look at it is the plant is only consuming 75% of what it is getting which I believe is resulting in over saturation). After a little math and some new calculations and a full day of observation, I am finding that the plant is now consuming 95% of what is being delivered and that sounds much more optimal.

If I am on to something here, it means that people may benefit from not only monitoring waste EC levels but also overall consumption? It will be different for everyone depending on the growth stage and how many plants but the important note here is to be aware and see if it jives with your configuration and/or estimations.

I have felt like my plant has not changed much in these final weeks of flower but in just the last day (with the changes I made) I am seeing all my flowers sprouting new tops (green) so the plant seems to be saying thank you?

I am not sure if I am on to something or not but it has been difficult to find any real conclusive information about aeroponic timer cycles and the role they play with feeding numbers so this is the only way I can think of confirming if I am going the right direction or not.
Click to expand...
How are you bud. I’ve been growing aeroponics for several years now doing a low pressure with ez clone nozzles in a rail system. I’ve used 4”,5” and now I’m doing a 6” rail with 2” net pots. I’m currently building a new system with different nozzles that produce finer droplets, the finest I could find using a low pressure system. From years of doing this I have played around with times and with my system the sweet spot seems to be 1 min on and 7 min off. BUT.... with these new sprayers I believe I can do shorter intervals and try to accomplish the damp roots instead of soaked roots to improve the efficiency between water and nutrients. I have not yet assembled the new system but I am this weekend and I’m very excited to see if this improves the system dramatically. Currently I have to run a low ppm using a heavy 16 base and only a couple additives and microbes. Week 1-3 flower I stay at 360ppm with mostly cal-mag because I use RO water. After week 3 the ppm goes up 120 per week. I am going to see if botanicare kind is easier on the plants. I am hoping because I have really been struggling lately with nutrient burn and I never have in the past. I can’t stand when someone says it’s the genetics, I refuse to admit that any grow has to do with genetics but I’m starting to think I’m some instances it is LOL. Anyways my goal is to use these sprayers and accomplish the closest thing to hp aeroponic using a low pressure system and get the best out of my plants using a LP system. I will stay chimed in and let you guys know how it’s going and what improvements happen.
Are you using a low pressure system yourself while doing your research? Let’s work together to accomplish our goals.

G
 
Thanks for contributing to the discussion. I am waiting on a new root chamber and plan to make some significant revisions to my setup once my current grow is finished (currently in week 11 of flower). I am using 80 psi and while that is high pressure, I have seen grows here that get as high as 150 psi.

I am hoping to zero in what is best for the plant so I tried gradually increasing ppm until I see some sign of tip burn but I found the plant would take pretty high levels without signs of burn but I would see spikes in the EC of my return line? I am required to perform a flush with every nutrient change to get my EC levels back to normal (seem to be experiencing buildup in the root chamber) . While I was monitoring my return EC levels, I took notice of how much was being returned and can't help but to question if i should have any run-off at all? In an optimal scenario, could I achieve 100% absorption rate of what is coming out of the misters? How close could I get?

That took me to making some calculations about how much is actually being delivered and how much is the plant consuming. Once I had some approximate numbers for my total consumption, I took those numbers and tried to balance my mister rate to the total amount of consumption spread out evenly over 24 hrs. This has led me to believe under my current timings, the plant is consuming 95% of what I am delivering but my roots still appears to be more wet than I want them.

I am still experimenting with things and needed to make some equipment upgrades to allow more presice measurements so I will share my observations as I get more info.
 
I wonder how much variation there is between the different manufacturers? My manufacturer calls for and EC of 2.2 through flower. I recently dropped it to 1.7 for a test and noticed some fading yellow leaves so I moved it back up to 2.2. I played with higher and lower and have never felt comfortable with an assessment. I will be watching to see if others can help provide their strategy.
 
lvumlow said:
I wonder how much variation there is between the different manufacturers? My manufacturer calls for and EC of 2.2 through flower. I recently dropped it to 1.7 for a test and noticed some fading yellow leaves so I moved it back up to 2.2. I played with higher and lower and have never felt comfortable with an assessment. I will be watching to see if others can help provide their strategy.
Click to expand...
I use ppm at a 500 scale always. It’s just the way I always done it lol
 
lvumlow said:
I wonder how much variation there is between the different manufacturers? My manufacturer calls for and EC of 2.2 through flower. I recently dropped it to 1.7 for a test and noticed some fading yellow leaves so I moved it back up to 2.2. I played with higher and lower and have never felt comfortable with an assessment. I will be watching to see if others can help provide their strategy.
Click to expand...
One thing for sure. I test my run off and it’s always the same ec/ppm as my reservoir. But, my res does drop daily. I try to keep it where it drops daily. When it doesn’t drop I get worried
 
I am not sure if a aero system actually drops with run off as other systems do. I’d like to know if in fact it’s supposed to. I’d also like to find out of optimal plant intake and growth would be escalated if there was little to no run off.
 

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