Which meter is more important - TDC or PH?

[Android]

Should I get two handheld pen meters or is dual inline is a de-facto industry standart and the way to go? Are they worth having? All I have right now is a pen tds meter I got for $25. Which one is more important to constantly monitor - tds or ph?

 

[Vampire]

Well the ph meter is important; i have a ph meter that also measures the moist level for really cheap at one of the home center stores; dunno know what a tds is. Rastafari.

 

[Indyca5000]

they're both important but you have an easier time judging what the TDS will come out as from the label of the ingredients than the PH... if you only have one it should be PH.

if you think about it from a biological perspective... the solution has to be at the right PH for the salts to be absorbed by the roots in any case.
if your TDS is a little bit low no big deal,
if its a little high you'll see a little burn.
if your PH is off you get lockouts.

 

[PrairiePoet]

pH is what you absolutely need to monitor. Like Indyca5000 says, you can be off some with TDS/PPM and it won't hurt the plants that much, and you will see it. If pH is off, many new growers mistake the symptoms of lacking in a nutrient, and try to fix that problem.

 

[Android]

Which should I get? Hanna, Milwaukee or Oakton (all of which are ~$90 on ebay)

 

[SpaceGhost]

I would get the ppm meter 1st and use the ph strips from the local fish/pet store for now until you save enough for the ph meter. both are important. I would also buy separate units. if one fails the meter might become useless

 

[Android]

I would get the ppm meter 1st and use the ph strips from the local fish/pet store for now until you save enough for the ph meter. both are important. I would also buy separate units. if one fails the meter might become useless

I already got those, but now I am going hydro (without abandoning soil for now), so ph strips would be another task to bother. I installed a security camera that will have ph t and rh in its field of view at all times - this way I can use any browser (including cellphone) to access the surveillance feed and know what goes on with my grow even if I am not home.

 

[SpaceGhost]

I already got those, but now I am going hydro (without abandoning soil for now), so ph strips would be another task to bother. I installed a security camera that will have ph t and rh in its field of view at all times - this way I can use any browser (including cellphone) to access the surveillance feed and know what goes on with my grow even if I am not home.

Nice.
My problems in the beginning of hydro was, I was checking ph by the old pool boy method the dropper and check the color to the strip. This worked fine and should be kept around for a back up or to check your ph meter to verify that it is working properly. Back to the issue I was having was, as the plants drank water the ppms were going up and I didn't know it. what I'm saying is the ppm's can run all over on any given day they may use more water or more nutrients. as soon as I got my ppm meter my issues went away.
I bought the ph meter 1st and wished I would have done it the other way around.
I too am a 1st time hydro grower and as a mater of fact this is my 1st grow ever check out my grow hereSpaceGhosts 1st Grow Hydro Advanced Nutrients

 

[Android]

Thanks guys for the input!
I found and bought a dual Hanna 981404 for $108 - pretty good deal
Hanna 981404N pH/TDS Cont. - $108.61 : Hydroponics Store, HID Lights, HPS, MH, Nutrients, and Hydro Kits, Los Angeles, Venice, Hollywood, Culver City

 

[HydroManster]

The tri-meters are good for 24/7 monitoring and displaying and they will measure 6 different things. They can be purchased for around 80 to 100 bucks.

You can get a cheap hand held TDS/PPM/EC meter for 15 bucks on ebay. These work well and get the job done, you just have to calibrate them.

Same deal with the PH hand helds, have used the 15 dollar ones from ebay right along side a Blue Lab or Hanna. And on several occasions the 15 dollar item out lasted the 130 dollar item with the brand name on it.

Have tried all of them for many years and honestly , the 15 to 20 dollar hand help PH and TDS meters work just as well as the more expensive lines like Hanna and Oakton.

Think about the fact that you could actually use a standard volt meter or something that measures ohms and resistance, you would just have to do the conversions with a calculator. Sure a nice 800 dollar digital fluke meter would be nice, but do I really need all that just to measure resistance or electrical conductivity?

If you are operating in a commercial environment then yes, you should probably get the mopre expensive name brand units, but if not, save your money on name brand items like that.

EC for example is "Electric Conductivity" and that is what you are measuring. The EC level will directly interpret to PPM or Parts Per Million. In other words a EC level of 1.2 will equal 600PPM at a conversion rate of .5 (x500) and at .7 (x700) an EC of 1.2 would equal 840PPM or 12 CF.

In the USA we use .5 (x500) conversion factor and in Europe and other countries like Australia they use .7 (x700) conversion factor.

It kills me when I see peeps post comments like I do not use PPM or I do not use or go by EC I use PPM....LOL! It is clear that they have no understanding at all of what they are measuring or they would know that the EC and PPM are technically speaking one in the same really. Just a little meter measuring trivia for ya....

Cheers!

 

[TorturedSoul]

Many nutrient manufacturers' websites have PPM calculators somewhere. Or if you've got the ear of the person who actually makes the stuff (Blue Planet Nutrients participates on our site, BtW, in addition to "just" helping to keep the site up by cutting a check), you can ask them about a particular mix. You've still got the question of what you've got in your starting water, but that can be gotten around by using distilled/RO water if you feel you must.

Like everyone else says, if you can only get one meter, get the pH meter.

 

[Android]

The funny thing the retailer I was buying from told me it was no longer selling those particular meters.

Is there a good write-up on this forum about devices with a dozing pump that monitor and adjust ph at the same time? I am not sure where to get one for anything cheaper than $300. Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated.
Do these products really liberate you from ph monitoring completely? If so - I am ready to pay, but if not - I will get a $73 monitor with a probe instead and adjust by hand as needed

 

[TorturedSoul]

Is there a good write-up on this forum about devices with a dozing pump that monitor and adjust ph at the same time? I am not sure where to get one for anything cheaper than $300. Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated.

WheeloFortune bought one for his setup. Might look in one of his journals, I remember he posted a little about it when he got it but I can't remember which journal that would have been. He already had it at the time of his last journal because he mentioned it in post #10 (Aqua marine PINPOINT pH controller w/peristaltic pump). Think he stated it allowed a range (dose to lower end, drift to upper end, dose to lower end, etc.) but I'm not positive.

Here is a link to his last journal:
Quest for 1G/W: 1K HPS Liquid Cooled on a 6' Mover in a 4x8 Tent

He linked his previous journals in post #1.

Not sure how much the pH controller cost. Maybe $300?

He had some sweet toys. Including, of course, the "wheel."

 

[Android]

Thanks for the tip.
I found the ph monitor that controls an electrical outlet for CO2 infusion, and the peristaltic pump, through which I intend to pump heavily diluted ph down solution using this switch/monitor. The damage was ~$130. Still waiting to receive both from Hong Kong. I will post an update once they are in operation.
I am afraid that without the "fuzzy logic" I would need to set the "on" threshold much higher or the pump won't stop pumping before ph gets way low.

Therefore I have two more questions:
How long does it generally take for a nutrient solution to stabilize after adding ph-down?
What's normally used for ph-down-type products, phosphoric acid?

 

[TorturedSoul]

I used to use pH down product that had that, thinking that it was a useful plant nutrient.

Then I thought, "Hey..." and realized that when I topped the reservoir off, the "bloom component" (was using GH Flora 3-part at the time) dropped the pH just fine. Plants consume nutrients, pH rises. Replace nutrients, pH goes back where it belongs, lol.

Using different nutrients now, but the principle still applies.

 

[Android]

Thanks for a reminder! I've seen others telling they were using bloom-type nutes to bring ph readings down before, but at that time I was looking for something else, so it didn't register in my very unreliable memory banks. Yeah, two birds with one shot is the way to go

 

[Android]

I have the goodies now:

 

[TorturedSoul]

Neat. Is it smart enough not to dose your reservoir with pH Down when you just need to add more nutrients?

 

[SpaceGhost]

How about if you got rot rot or a sick plant and keep dosing ph down. It would be nice so you could leave on weekends. Nice find hope it works 4 ya

 

[Android]

I will quote my post in the journal. It relates to the subject of this discussion

I tried playing with the controller and the acid, and how much would I need to drop the whole solution say by 0.5 ph. As the result, I opted out of diluting the acid and have the res mix up well because I found a better way of doing ph adjustment and not overshoot. Here is the secret: I attached the peristaltic pump exhaust piping directly over the ph sensor. As soon as any amount of acid hits the sensor - the pump stops right away. Sure, it will swing around for a while before mixing up and settling, but that's not a problem - the return pump stirs up the water in the res really nice (plus it has bubbles in it due to the breather in the system)
So to prevent overshooting - I use very small amounts of acid - it seems to do the trick just fine.

The reason I don't use bloom for ph down are two: because I have this phosphoric acid. 2) because I haven't bought the bloom nute yet. (I have some GH Bloom left, but I also wanted to get a quart of Ginormous by Humboldt