Building A Better Soil: Demonstrations & Discussions Of Organic Soil Recipes

[Heirloom]

Coco coir is usually PH6. So if you need to bring it up from below 6, that can help.

If you're really in dire straights to bring PH up with out Ca, use potassium carbonate.

 

[Timmo]

Thanks for clearing that up, 36. I also added peat to my blueberries this year.

Thanks for the tips, Heirloom. I'm glad you're still hanging out with us, and I'm glad we can be your "normal."

 

[bobrown14]

Ok first of I want to say to Heirloom that I'm very very sorry for your accident. I wish you well and a steady day to day improvement with you returning to good health. Recovery is what you make it. Give yourself 110% effort you will get 110% result. Work hard work often and don't forget to laugh a little even if its at yourself. This challenge will make you an even stronger person as life goes on. I'm sure a few docs told you how lucky you are to be here, live life and pass some love on to others, you will be surprised!

To the folks recently asking about soil mix - Heirloom hit the nail straight on ... it will be strain dependent. You'd be surprised how different cultivars react to the same soil. I think this is why using chemicals to grow got us to where we are now. BUT with some experimentation we can find what works. I was and still am a die hard organic nazi... but I've loosened up a little bit. I will use Epsom Salts when I see the need but that comes from a lot of growing and experimentation.

If I see a plant in trouble, I will mix up a slurry of EWC and re-hydrated kelp meal a little aloe and coconut water. Water in and let the ladies be.. usually always works and don't forget to do your IPM.

For the new folks IPM = Integrated Pest Management. Unless you're only going to grow 1 or 2 plants and then stop, you will need to develop a good IPM routine and do it 2x a week every week for ever. Organic container gardening should be fairly easy work, if you find yourself working pretty hard, step back and ask yourself why am I doing what I'm doing. Is it beneficial for the plant, or is it beneficial for ME?

Handy - you posted this about your mix:

Add amendments (other than oyster shell)

Please elaborate on your "amendments" there - that's the key to success the little details are important. Give us a list of amendments you are using so we can understand what is in your soil mix.

That was the only thing that I saw in your mix that I thought about and didn't think was perfect, only cause I don't know what's in it.

Hey I was at a new local nursery this past weekend and they had some bags of Primier BIOMAX Garden mix soil:

It contains forestry compost, black earth, Canadian sphagnum peat moss, sand and limestone

I mixed it 1/2 and 1/2 with some old soil out of my notil pots that went 10 or more rounds... has anyone used this or tried it. Premier Technologies?? I just transplanted a nice little Dark Devil lady that needed more root space and I though lets try it. Ingredients look good .. smells good, I bought several bags!

You folks posting pics of the berries ... man that's what I'm talking about. Our raspberries, black and red currants and gooseberries are just getting going.... duck with some red or black currant sauce... ohhhhh ahhhh oooohhhh my mouth is watering. Not ready yet but getting close! Patience is key.. take that to the bank!

 

[Heirloom]

Hey I was at a new local nursery this past weekend and they had some bags of Primier BIOMAX Garden mix soil:

It contains forestry compost, black earth, Canadian sphagnum peat moss, sand and limestone

Any elaboration on the 'Black Earth' component? In Portuguese that is literally 'Terra Preta'. I'm sure many here are familiar with that term, but for those who are not do a quick internet search with these terms..... "Amazon Terra Preta Biochar". I wonder if they simply blacken it with coal dust and fly ash like many soil mixes, or if they are actually mining terra preta somewhere.

Forestry compost is freaking awesome stuff. I live on deciduous hardwood/conifer mixed forest land that was cleared almost 30 years ago. The piles where they pushed debris have broken down and are some of the best soils I've ever seen. A neighbor who owns about 800 acres surrounding me sent a sample to be tested, and it came back 'perfect'. Add nothing. Grow in it. I've used some as a free 'bulk up' addition, as well as for the microbiology inoculation.

Sounds like it could be a winner BB. Actually it sounds a lot like what I was making late last year, lol. Let us know how it works out! I grew a few plants that had great terps, but needed more bulk.

Thank you for the words of support and encouragement!

 

[Timmo]

I grew a few plants that had great terps, but needed more bulk.

Heirloom, what do you do to encourage bulking? I've got several plants that are close to finishing that have buds that look nice and big from a distance, but up close they're pretty wispy. I've heard that flushing with bone meal and sugar for the last two weeks helps (straight water for the last two waterings), but I haven't tried that yet. Any advice?

 

[Heirloom]

Timmo,

Good question. Wish I had a Holy Grail answer for you...and me.

I have no recipes for success in the late bloom/ripen stage, or any stage really. But feeding a readily available P:K bloom booster does help. I'm sticking to around 1:2 ratio P:K through week 6, then a 1:1 ratio until the last week or 10 days. I don't use anything slow release beyond initial amendment and sometimes a preflower top dress (depending on indoor or outdoor). And by slow release I mean any dry ferts that require lots of breaking down. "Liquid Organics" work well, like Earth Juice. For the P I've been using EJ Bloom and Big Bloomin' Guano mostly. For K I alternate sources. Meta-K, Pro-Tekt, kelp tea, liquid seaweed and Cytoplus. Cytoplus has found it's way back into my recipes and is currently used 1 week before flower through day 21 of flower. Remember, this is on top of the dry ferts amended in. So using beneficial bacterial and something like EJ Catalyst with the boost feedings kicks the soil food web in the rear a bit.

I'm going to dip my toes back into the cold, dark waters of hydro and give some of the Advanced Nutrient products a try. Most specifically B-52, Bud Candy and the root products. Maybe Sensizym too. I know, I know....evil....over priced....scam....I know. I also know a grower I respect who swears by AN, and I can't say that his buds are bad. In fact I can't say mine are better. So if there are gains to be had, I will figure it out.

Hopefully you're not trying to bulk an equatorial sativa or something? 'Cause it ain't gonna happen if the genetics aren't there.

Oh, and my newest favorite word....patience (dripping with sarcasm due to current situation). Sometimes it's the last 10-14 days that make the difference. Blue Dream seems to be one of them. She'll hold the buds up until week 8 sometimes. Then the weight really goes on and the next day you have sideways colas.

Flushing is a completely misunderstood and usually poorly executed process. Before talking about flushing, I ask what is it you are trying to accomplish by flushing? What is your process?

 

[Timmo]

By "I haven't tried that yet," I just meant in general--I'm not planning on flushing these plants. I think they're too close to finishing to give them anything but plain water. If I were going to try it, bulking would be the only thing I'd be trying to accomplish. I don't use salt-based nutes, so I don't think there would be any other point. Would there?

They're not sativas. They 're Lebanese (landrace) x Gorilla Grape bx2/Nepalese Rocket (60% indica). I started them inside in mid-February and moved them to my greenhouse after they started flowering spontaneously in mid-April. They've been fully outside for the last few weeks. I do have some sativas growing, but not flowering yet, and, no, I don't expect fat nugs from them, as the kids would say.

I'm working on that patience thing. Part of the problem is that I don't know how long to expect ripening to take, so I don't really know if I'm in that last week or two. The tricomes were mostly clear when I checked a few days ago, and there aren't tons of them, so I assume there's still some time to go, but just how much, I don't know. And the plants are looking pretty depleted, so I'm worried that they might run out of gas before hitting the finish line. I know, I know: Patience....

Thanks for the feeding tips. I do have some Earth Juice grow and bloom and some liquid seaweed that I've been using on my nonflowering plants, as well as some kelp and other things that I put in the soil but haven't fed with. I didn't use anything but compost tea and plain water on the Lebanese Gorillas--just what was in the soil. I'm really just starting to skim the surface of understanding what, when, and how much to feed. I get the basic difference between grow and bloom formulas, and I've read Teaming with Microbes, so I have at least a basic grasp on living organics. But there's such a huge number of products, both commercial and homemade, that it's a little overwhelming trying to put it into practice. So I really appreciate you posting specifics about what you feed with the ratios and timing. That's very helpful.

 

[Heirloom]

Wish I could help you with the finish time. It's a learning experience and you'll go into the next grow of that strain armed with more knowledge. And you'll do better. And even better on the following. I've been at the mercy of the trichs with no idea how long it should go too. But with airy buds and clear trichs, another 21 days would be my minimum guess. Really hard to say how fast a strain ripens.

I misread the flush thing. I can't really help you there either, but the recipe is fairly obvious in it's intent. Bone meal for P, sugar for biological stimulant. The sugar could be replaced, or reduced and molasses could be used too. I'm a believer in variety and providing different forms of nutrients. Hell, I'd emulsify a pop tart if it would help. I question the long release bone meal selection if you're too close to finish, but I've never tried it so who am I to poo-poo it.

EDIT: the pro on bone meal is it is readily available. I was just wondering if you might waste nutrient, or leave it behind in the soil after the plant is done. It's a 1-4 month release rate. Biological activity of course being the key factor on rate of release. Probably not a big deal. /EDIT

Teaming with Microbes is a great book. Do you have Teaming with Nutrients? Since you've read TwM, you should have at least a basic understanding of Cations and Anions. You could probably deduce then why the idea of a soil 'flush' (or any media with a CEC) with clean water is preposterous to me. Anyhow, that's off topic and was my misunderstanding.

Stay your course. Make your notes and learn the lessons they are teaching you. And of course apply it on the next grow.

Hmm. Come to think of it, I bet the microarthropods would love a pop tart as much as the Pseudomonas and Trichodermas.

 

[SweetSue]

Now the question becomes, "What flavor pop tart?"

 

[Timmo]

These are my Lebanese Gorillas as of this morning:

I did a trichome check this morning at mid-cola level. Closing in on 50% mostly-cloudy. I have an Iranian Early Flower that's also blooming but started a little later. It's also looking the same:

I gave her a shot of fish hydrolysate last weekend, but otherwise she's just had water and AACT.

Any thoughts on how these look? I put all kinds of stuff into my soil, and the plants loved it initially, but it looks to me now like they aren't getting enough of something. They all went into the soil freshly mixed, except the Iranian, which went into month-old soil at it's last repotting a few weeks ago. Could it be that something hasn't broken down and become available yet, or could I have too much of something and something else is getting locked out (another subject I have little grasp of)?

I'd go with blueberry poptarts.

 

[SweetSue]

Timmo, I'm still new to the game, but this looks, for the most part, like normal necrotic leaves coming to the end. If you're at 50% cloudy you're close to harvest, are you not?

Let's make them organic blueberry pop tarts.

 

[bobrown14]

These are my Lebanese Gorillas as of this morning:

I did a trichome check this morning at mid-cola level. Closing in on 50% mostly-cloudy. I have an Iranian Early Flower that's also blooming but started a little later. It's also looking the same:

I gave her a shot of fish hydrolysate last weekend, but otherwise she's just had water and AACT.

Any thoughts on how these look? I put all kinds of stuff into my soil, and the plants loved it initially, but it looks to me now like they aren't getting enough of something. They all went into the soil freshly mixed, except the Iranian, which went into month-old soil at it's last repotting a few weeks ago. Could it be that something hasn't broken down and become available yet, or could I have too much of something and something else is getting locked out (another subject I have little grasp of)?

I'd go with blueberry poptarts.

Hey there Timmo.. plants look great. You're on the right track. The yellow/orange/red - thats a good sign that the plants are healthy happy and doing what they do... if it aint broke... I think you should just water for a few turns and let the ladies be!

What I do coming down the stretch, and I'm right here just like you with a bunch of ladies that look just like yours do is water in with a 1 tbs of Epsom Salts, 1/4 cup organic coconut water/aloe juice (pure coconut water no sugar), 1 tsp Protect-k, 2 tbs of Fulpower, mix that with 5 gal water you can add in a cup of AACT as well ... This will cause the plant to start pumping out more pistols and that will cause the plant to fatten up the buds... also hasten the finish. If you keep this going down the stretch say every 3rd watering and you can also spray it on 2x a week, you will see a plant that is almost done start to push just a little bit more and bulk up.

Be wary of the plant all of a sudden stop water uptake. ... time to chop but you can still let it go a week or so. Just dont water in any more.

The last week or so makes all the difference. Patience is key. If you wait too long you will see bananas start to show on the buds = bad but not that bad. Look at the shape of the Calyx on the buds.. once they start to shrink they are over ripe. When they are pear shaped and swollen you're in the chop zone .. look at trichomes AND the calyx shape, commit and chop.

Your plants can wait a few more days. I like to chop on the full moon, it's coming up and the ladies know it. My spring harvest is any day now and my plants look a lot like yours do. I'm just waiting patiently for the full moon. Sometimes part of this whole is not in our hands. I rely on Mother Nature to help me out every day. Look to the sun and look to the moon - there's a sign there.

For example this plant looked like this for several weeks. I've grown this strain for 20 rounds or so and know that despite the looks and leaves falling off she's doing GREAT. This is top shelf organic cannabis. My goto meds. Not done but just about...

 

[36Gr0w]

I'm liking sucanat instead of molasses or replacements.

 

[Timmo]

Thank you, Sweet Sue and Bobrown, for your reassurance. You'd think this was my first harvest and that I'd never seen the fade before. The only thing that's obviously going wrong is that I'm overthinking and overworrying. I'm trying hard to grow more marketable buds, so the anxiety dial is turned up pretty high right now. A little handholding goes a long way--I appreciate you pointing out what should have been obvious.

Bobrown, thank you for the coconut water recipe. I'll definitely give that a try. I'm not sure what you mean by "down the stretch." I've got plants in four different stages of flowering, from the ones in the pictures to one I just discovered a few days ago. At what point should I start using it?

Thanks for the harvesting advice as well. I'm definitely waiting at least a few more days. My last grow, I took the tops off too soon. All the little buds that I left on for another couple of weeks were vastly more potent. I'm determined not to repeat that mistake. Patience...

Your plant is gorgeous. I can practically smell it.

 

[Timmo]

I'm liking sucanat instead of molasses or replacements.

The guys at my grow shop recently told me that using molasses in compost tea in the last three weeks will give the buds a funny taste. They recommended switching to sucanat for that third-to-last week.

 

[Heirloom]

Timmo, I agree. They look like they have an 'I'm finishing' attitude rather than 'I'm stuck and starving 1/2 way through'.

 

[kelticBlue]

look at trichomes AND the calyx shape, commit and chop.

Magnifier at the ready, I gotta try to learn this. Moon was pretty big last night too.

 

[Timmo]

It seems that I've sparked a bit of a scuffle on a thread I started about whether my soil is mag deficient and now raises issues about whether I should even leave my plants in this soil at all. Could I interest the cooler heads here to have a look and add some perspective?

Is my soil magnesium deficient?

 

[Emilya Green]

The guys at my grow shop recently told me that using molasses in compost tea in the last three weeks will give the buds a funny taste. They recommended switching to sucanat for that third-to-last week.

I figure that if I haven't given my plants everything that they need by the end of week 6, I have failed. The 7th week is for clean up, nothing but water here. The 8th week, that is all about convincing the plant that it is about to die. Nothing but water that week either. The big thing that hit me when I started doing this about a year ago was that all of a sudden, all of my pot had unique tastes. I had noticed it on some, but now, EVERY strain had a unique taste... and then I realized that the universal taste (and harshness) that was missing, was the magnesium in the molasses.

 

[CBDkid]

Still only half through reading this thread, so my apologies if this has already been asked - what is the minimum time recommended to cook a CC style soil mix as described in the first post? Up until now I've been growing with Fox Farms soil, but would like to switch to mixing my own, and I'm hoping I could have some ready by the time my outdoor plants have to be transplanted into their final pots.. probably about 2 or 3 weeks from now I'm guessing.