Help a first-time grower girl!
- Thread starter Maggie2
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- #22
Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions. so here's what I did yesterday:
I went down to my local grow shop and got me a bag of good organic soil. the guy there assured me that it's a nute burn from the miracle gro soil. He said that stuff is bad and too concentrated and the fact that I added nute-rich perlite into the mix compounded the problem. He said he heard it all before...
I flushed my plants, trimmed the badly affected leaves and re-potted in the new soil after exposing all the roots and soaking them in Superthrive for 30 minutes. I watered with a pH 6.5 water, and today, just to be on the safe side, i swiped the leaves that still had some spots with Daconil (fungicide). No nutes for now!
I guess there's not much else I can do at this stage.
After going through endless threads, I realized it could be anything from a pH problem, a fungus, over or under-fertilization, TMV etc... Only time will tell if my plants will survive. I can still see new healthy shoots growing which is giving me a bit of hope.
I'll keep u posted..
I went down to my local grow shop and got me a bag of good organic soil. the guy there assured me that it's a nute burn from the miracle gro soil. He said that stuff is bad and too concentrated and the fact that I added nute-rich perlite into the mix compounded the problem. He said he heard it all before...
I flushed my plants, trimmed the badly affected leaves and re-potted in the new soil after exposing all the roots and soaking them in Superthrive for 30 minutes. I watered with a pH 6.5 water, and today, just to be on the safe side, i swiped the leaves that still had some spots with Daconil (fungicide). No nutes for now!
I guess there's not much else I can do at this stage.
After going through endless threads, I realized it could be anything from a pH problem, a fungus, over or under-fertilization, TMV etc... Only time will tell if my plants will survive. I can still see new healthy shoots growing which is giving me a bit of hope.
I'll keep u posted..
QueenTokelove
New Member
Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions. so here's what I did yesterday:
I went down to my local grow shop and got me a bag of good organic soil. the guy there assured me that it's a nute burn from the miracle gro soil. He said that stuff is bad and too concentrated and the fact that I added nute-rich perlite into the mix compounded the problem. He said he heard it all before...
I flushed my plants, trimmed the badly affected leaves and re-potted in the new soil after exposing all the roots and soaking them in Superthrive for 30 minutes. I watered with a pH 6.5 water, and today, just to be on the safe side, i swiped the leaves that still had some spots with Daconil (fungicide). No nutes for now!
I guess there's not much else I can do at this stage.
After going through endless threads, I realized it could be anything from a pH problem, a fungus, over or under-fertilization, TMV etc... Only time will tell if my plants will survive. I can still see new healthy shoots growing which is giving me a bit of hope. I'll keep u posted..
Sounds good, your babies may just bounce back, don't count them out yet. I wanted to mention something about the miracle grow but I have heard some people use it to grow though most don't. Now all you can do is sit back and just watch.
Vampire
New Member
Maggie2.
SmokzAlot
New Member
Thank you everyone for your helpful suggestions. so here's what I did yesterday:
I went down to my local grow shop and got me a bag of good organic soil. the guy there assured me that it's a nute burn from the miracle gro soil. He said that stuff is bad and too concentrated and the fact that I added nute-rich perlite into the mix compounded the problem. He said he heard it all before...
I flushed my plants, trimmed the badly affected leaves and re-potted in the new soil after exposing all the roots and soaking them in Superthrive for 30 minutes. I watered with a pH 6.5 water, and today, just to be on the safe side, i swiped the leaves that still had some spots with Daconil (fungicide). No nutes for now!
I guess there's not much else I can do at this stage.
After going through endless threads, I realized it could be anything from a pH problem, a fungus, over or under-fertilization, TMV etc... Only time will tell if my plants will survive. I can still see new healthy shoots growing which is giving me a bit of hope.
I'll keep u posted..
My view of the events...
I do believe they will survive, if you provide the environment for them to grow. How well or when is another issue. I am reading your post literally so correct me if I am interpreting it incorrectly. None of the actions you took were fatal or unusual. Together they were extremely stressful. Not only did you cause great stress but you crippled its ability to heal as well. In short you will have a delayed recovery in my opinion. You may lose fan leaves along the way as well.
I agree about the MG soil
A re-potting and RO water for a few days would suffice. Trim after it shows vigor. Add the ST to the RO if you wish. When I transplant I want my plant searching for water ASAP. So dry to the right point is important as I see things. Transplanting then watering thoroughly and let stand till it drys again. I am inducing root growth...
Level of dryness is specific to each medium...
ggrant
New Member
First time flower girl -
QueenTokeLove send me a PM about your problem.
There are two things wrong:
First you have some pH fluctutaion, which really isn't that big an issue -
But the real problem is the MiracleGro Soil. This stuff has killed more marijuana plants than any government "cannabis eradication" program. I believe the U. S. Government subsidizes MiracleGro to sell this crap to maijuana growers!
Seriously, MiracleGro is for houseplants, NOT cannabis. It is too dense and packs too tightly. Houseplants have strong thick roots that can burrow through MiracleGro mud, but cannabis plants have fine slender roots than can't make their way through the soil.
So what happens is that the roots will try to grow around the soil, i.e,, the roots will actually grown down the side of the pot and along the bottom of the pot.
You have to repot this gal if you want it to survive. Otherwise, it will slowly wither and die.
Try to get some decent soil. I think Canna and Pro Mix have proper soils for cannabis. A good soil will have lots of sphagnum peat moss and NO nutrients. You want a very light, loose springy soil.
If you can't find a decent soil, try to buy coco coir. This is a "soil" made from coconut husks and is perfect for growing cannabis.
When you find a proper soil, take your plant out of its pot and shake of as much of the MiracleGro as you can. You can also dunk the roots in warm water to flush out the MiracleGro. Don't worry about hurting the roots. They are very tough and some growers cut them with a knife or scissors when they transplant. (I'm not recommending that - just want to show that the roots are not that delicate.)
A lot of garden centers carry coco coir, either as a "ready-to-use" soil or in blocks that you have to soak in water and rehydrate. You should also be able to go online and find either coco coir or something like Pro Mix soil. If you find something online and you're not sure it's what you need, post the link and I'll check it out for you.
If it's going to be a while until you can get some decent soil, buy some perlite - it's easy to find. Then make a mix of 75% perlite and 25% MiracleGro. Use this to repot your plant. Even the 25% MiracleGro isn't great, but when you get some decent soil, you can then repot your plant again for good.
When I ran out of my "good soil" I used MiracleGro and 50% perlite, It was pretty awful and almost killed two of my plants. I bought coco coir and repotted them and they are all doing great.
QueenTokeLove send me a PM about your problem.
There are two things wrong:
First you have some pH fluctutaion, which really isn't that big an issue -
pH Fluctuation
But the real problem is the MiracleGro Soil. This stuff has killed more marijuana plants than any government "cannabis eradication" program. I believe the U. S. Government subsidizes MiracleGro to sell this crap to maijuana growers!
Seriously, MiracleGro is for houseplants, NOT cannabis. It is too dense and packs too tightly. Houseplants have strong thick roots that can burrow through MiracleGro mud, but cannabis plants have fine slender roots than can't make their way through the soil.
So what happens is that the roots will try to grow around the soil, i.e,, the roots will actually grown down the side of the pot and along the bottom of the pot.
You have to repot this gal if you want it to survive. Otherwise, it will slowly wither and die.
Try to get some decent soil. I think Canna and Pro Mix have proper soils for cannabis. A good soil will have lots of sphagnum peat moss and NO nutrients. You want a very light, loose springy soil.
If you can't find a decent soil, try to buy coco coir. This is a "soil" made from coconut husks and is perfect for growing cannabis.
When you find a proper soil, take your plant out of its pot and shake of as much of the MiracleGro as you can. You can also dunk the roots in warm water to flush out the MiracleGro. Don't worry about hurting the roots. They are very tough and some growers cut them with a knife or scissors when they transplant. (I'm not recommending that - just want to show that the roots are not that delicate.)
A lot of garden centers carry coco coir, either as a "ready-to-use" soil or in blocks that you have to soak in water and rehydrate. You should also be able to go online and find either coco coir or something like Pro Mix soil. If you find something online and you're not sure it's what you need, post the link and I'll check it out for you.
If it's going to be a while until you can get some decent soil, buy some perlite - it's easy to find. Then make a mix of 75% perlite and 25% MiracleGro. Use this to repot your plant. Even the 25% MiracleGro isn't great, but when you get some decent soil, you can then repot your plant again for good.
When I ran out of my "good soil" I used MiracleGro and 50% perlite, It was pretty awful and almost killed two of my plants. I bought coco coir and repotted them and they are all doing great.
ggrant
New Member
By the way, Flower Girl,
To lower your pH, add one tsp of lemon juice OR vinegar per gallon of water.
If you want to add some magnesium (I don't think you need it), you can add one tablespoon of Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate) per gallon of water.
These are the typical amounts of Epsom Salts to use. The lemon juice is enough to lower the pH to about 6.2 or so, which is fine.
The reason your leaves are turning yellow is because you have a nitrogen deficiency. Even if you add fertilizer, it won't get to the leaves as they are stuck in some awful soil. Stay with the foliar feeding (1/4 strength fertlizer) until you can properly repot this gal. The foliar feeding will give the leaves some nitrogen which will help them survive.
Adding more stuff to the soil won't do any good and will likely make things worse.
To lower your pH, add one tsp of lemon juice OR vinegar per gallon of water.
If you want to add some magnesium (I don't think you need it), you can add one tablespoon of Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulphate) per gallon of water.
These are the typical amounts of Epsom Salts to use. The lemon juice is enough to lower the pH to about 6.2 or so, which is fine.
The reason your leaves are turning yellow is because you have a nitrogen deficiency. Even if you add fertilizer, it won't get to the leaves as they are stuck in some awful soil. Stay with the foliar feeding (1/4 strength fertlizer) until you can properly repot this gal. The foliar feeding will give the leaves some nitrogen which will help them survive.
Adding more stuff to the soil won't do any good and will likely make things worse.
ggrant
New Member
Maggie,
If you need some more advice on this or in the future, you can either send me a PM (you may not have enough posts to do this) OR post a question directly to my journal. The link is at the bottom of my messages.
If you need some more advice on this or in the future, you can either send me a PM (you may not have enough posts to do this) OR post a question directly to my journal. The link is at the bottom of my messages.
- Thread starter
- #29
Hey ggrant. Couldn't send you a PM cause I'm still new.
Thank you so much for the helpful posts. I'm pulling my hair over this problem and not sure whether or not I'm doing the right things trying as I'm troubleshooting. I'm a neurophysiology ph.D student and I troubleshoot experiments all day every day and still find this too challenging lol
So anyway, I hope you can give me an expert advice here.
My plants are 35 days old since first sprout. Both hybrids: One Barney's farm tangerine Dream and one LaDiva (autoflowering), both feminized. Transferred them from their Jiffy starters to MG organic choice exactly 17 days ago. They took off really well, so I gave them no nutes. On day 25 days I saw a small brown necrotic patch on one leaf. Didn't bother me much. I went ahead and sprayed the leaves with organic nitrogen solution, nothing in the soil.
the patch kept growing and the problem spread to other leaves in both plants.
Based on what I researched and on the advices I received, I thought it was pH (7.2 on my cheap pH meter), so I flushed with tap water and watered with a pH 6.2 RO water. No improvement was seen. I then took a sample of my soil to the lab where I work and tested it with our trusted bench-top pH meter. Came up real low (5.4)! So I flushed again and water with a pH 7.0 RO water. Problem still there!
I then I re-potted the plants 2 days ago in Black Gold organic soil after trimming the rotten leaves and soaking bare roots in ST. Gave them a 6.5 pH RO water.
Two days into this two further fan leaves on each plant quickly suffered the same fate (check the pics), and I can see slight yellowing followed by tiny brown patches on young leaves which I'm sure will go through the same thing later on. Very new shoots are slow but seems healthy.
I notice purplish stems on the affected leaves.
the pH I quoted in my first post is wrong (bad pH) meter.
Humidity is between 30 and 40%.
Temp near the leaves is 77F and 78F in the soil.
Lastly, I measured again a soil sample (the new soil) today and it was 5.2! ggrrrrrrrrrr!!
What would you do???
It's a long message I know, sorry. But I'm hanging by a straw now
Hope you can help..
Thank you so much for the helpful posts. I'm pulling my hair over this problem and not sure whether or not I'm doing the right things trying as I'm troubleshooting. I'm a neurophysiology ph.D student and I troubleshoot experiments all day every day and still find this too challenging lol
So anyway, I hope you can give me an expert advice here.
My plants are 35 days old since first sprout. Both hybrids: One Barney's farm tangerine Dream and one LaDiva (autoflowering), both feminized. Transferred them from their Jiffy starters to MG organic choice exactly 17 days ago. They took off really well, so I gave them no nutes. On day 25 days I saw a small brown necrotic patch on one leaf. Didn't bother me much. I went ahead and sprayed the leaves with organic nitrogen solution, nothing in the soil.
the patch kept growing and the problem spread to other leaves in both plants.
Based on what I researched and on the advices I received, I thought it was pH (7.2 on my cheap pH meter), so I flushed with tap water and watered with a pH 6.2 RO water. No improvement was seen. I then took a sample of my soil to the lab where I work and tested it with our trusted bench-top pH meter. Came up real low (5.4)! So I flushed again and water with a pH 7.0 RO water. Problem still there!
I then I re-potted the plants 2 days ago in Black Gold organic soil after trimming the rotten leaves and soaking bare roots in ST. Gave them a 6.5 pH RO water.
Two days into this two further fan leaves on each plant quickly suffered the same fate (check the pics), and I can see slight yellowing followed by tiny brown patches on young leaves which I'm sure will go through the same thing later on. Very new shoots are slow but seems healthy.
I notice purplish stems on the affected leaves.
the pH I quoted in my first post is wrong (bad pH) meter.
Humidity is between 30 and 40%.
Temp near the leaves is 77F and 78F in the soil.
Lastly, I measured again a soil sample (the new soil) today and it was 5.2! ggrrrrrrrrrr!!
What would you do???
It's a long message I know, sorry. But I'm hanging by a straw now
Hope you can help..
QueenTokelove
New Member
Ok, I am glad Grant has stepped in to help you out. Are you still waiting on the calmag to come? I am over here really feeling for you because I see you literally flushing the hell out of those plants in pure frustration. I have been there, my friend. Did you check out the link? And now you're ph is too low? I think baking soda raises ph but don't quote me on it. Maybe Grant will see this and confirm or deny. Glad you switched the soil though. Don't give up.
- Thread starter
- #31
Thank you so much for referring Grant!
Well at least I know it's not some sort of fungus. spraying with the fungicide did not help.
I received the calmag but to be honest I'm worried about using out for now just in case what i have is a nute burn. don't want to exacerbate the problem. Do you thing foliar-feeding with the calmag is safe even if it's a nute burn?
I'm leaning towards pH. That crappy pH meter i had was way off (didn't realized that until I tested with a laboratory pH meter). My actual pH is around 5.2
I will water with a 6.5 pH H2O but still on the fence about adding calmag to it
Thanks
SmokzAlot
New Member
In your quest for feedback...
If I may interject... to me it looks like they are asking for magnesium. Not discounting the soil issue, that had to be done asap. I suggest RO with cal/mag or some source. Still waiting on the cal/mag? Then use epsom @ 1 tsp per gal of water. Can also be applied in a foliar for faster action. You can also dissolve dolomite lime and apply the same. If dolomite is amended to the soil, it is much slower. I don't suggest it for rescue work.
Let the ph swing a bit to allow take up of mag and cal as well.
I believe your biggest issue was based on the soil compaction, the roots were unable to breathe. Hence affecting nutrient take up. Using soil the ph is not as critical, more so if you have decent organics.
Does this new medium drain well?
If I may interject... to me it looks like they are asking for magnesium. Not discounting the soil issue, that had to be done asap. I suggest RO with cal/mag or some source. Still waiting on the cal/mag? Then use epsom @ 1 tsp per gal of water. Can also be applied in a foliar for faster action. You can also dissolve dolomite lime and apply the same. If dolomite is amended to the soil, it is much slower. I don't suggest it for rescue work.
Let the ph swing a bit to allow take up of mag and cal as well.
I believe your biggest issue was based on the soil compaction, the roots were unable to breathe. Hence affecting nutrient take up. Using soil the ph is not as critical, more so if you have decent organics.
Does this new medium drain well?
Vampire
New Member
Damn this is a strange problem going on along with the progression of it. I looked at a def. chart along with your leaves in the other window and it's indicating 5-6 different deficiencies that have those brown spots on it. At least you know its not the soil because the browning still persist after your transplant and I seriously doubt its' a ph issue after seeing the last picture. I think it's something to do with your roots because even the first picture looks like the plants stunted but that's a guess at this point. If it were mine, and to me it looks kinda hopeless anyways, I'd take it outta the soil and look at those roots really good, see if there's bugs or they're twisted or what color they are, they should be white and keeping the roots in water will keep the plant alive in case you see something and have to go to a nursery for an item that will bring the roots back. Maybe even cut off a small piece of the root and take it to someone who knows, certainly not the gent that advised you wrong about the mg organic. That's about all I can think of although I've never had any problems like this so I'm speculating. I did happen in another thread (Austin5) where the grower had massive leaf problems and he's growing in Fox Farm OF soil and also using this superthrive; maybe that's what rots the roots somehow. Keep us posted and good luck. 
SmokzAlot
New Member
Damn this is a strange problem going on along with the progression of it. I looked at a def. chart along with your leaves in the other window and it's indicating 5-6 different deficiencies that have those brown spots on it. At least you know its not the soil because the browning still persist after your transplant and I seriously doubt its' a ph issue after seeing the last picture. I think it's something to do with your roots because even the first picture looks like the plants stunted but that's a guess at this point. If it were mine, and to me it looks kinda hopeless anyways, I'd take it outta the soil and look at those roots really good, see if there's bugs or they're twisted or what color they are, they should be white and keeping the roots in water will keep the plant alive in case you see something and have to go to a nursery for an item that will bring the roots back. Maybe even cut off a small piece of the root and take it to someone who knows, certainly not the gent that advised you wrong about the mg organic. That's about all I can think of although I've never had any problems like this so I'm speculating. I did happen in another thread (Austin5) where the grower had massive leaf problems and he's growing in Fox Farm OF soil and also using this superthrive; maybe that's what rots the roots somehow. Keep us posted and good luck.
Vamp - you and I are saying the same thing sort of. I agree it is a multitude of issues at this point, due to prior issues. I say cal/mag as it rescues the most urgent need as I see it. If you wish to get green again with new growth. I also suggested earlier my ideas of promoting root growth in this process, so we would have vital new roots to suck up what it needs. Also why I oppose so much stress at once when attempting a rescue.
As I said it will live, but with delayed recovery.
In short ggrant was correct with his triage, it is the aftermath we are dealing with now. A lot of damage has been done and will continue to spread as the plant struggles to survive and scavenges what it needs from itself. This process is what you wish to avoid. You must now provide the proper environment and access to its needs. Gently, as it has far to go.
QueenTokelove
New Member
Thank you so much for referring Grant!
Well at least I know it's not some sort of fungus. spraying with the fungicide did not help.
I received the calmag but to be honest I'm worried about using out for now just in case what i have is a nute burn. don't want to exacerbate the problem. Do you thing foliar-feeding with the calmag is safe even if it's a nute burn?
I'm leaning towards pH. That crappy pH meter i had was way off (didn't realized that until I tested with a laboratory pH meter). My actual pH is around 5.2
I will water with a 6.5 pH H2O but still on the fence about adding calmag to it
No problem, Grant helped me a great deal with my last grow. Plus he provides visuals and makes it easy to understand. Using calmag wouldn't add to the nute burn, I think it would do the opposite and help with those brown spots. If still worried only use at half strength. I was wondering if it actually is nute burn because I have only seen nute burn on the tips or edges of the leaves, not in the center like yours. Yes, I foliar feed with calmag even now and I am not having problems with any brown spots. But I also have nutes mixed in with it. I don't know the amounts to use, hopefully Grant will chime in with this information for you.
To be fair you have been given some great advice on here,however your plant looks ve3ry healthy,you really shouldnt worry too much,there is nothing wrong with your plant it needs nothing except you PH lowering to around 6.5.and all will be good,but whatever you do ,DO NOT start giving your plant much nutes,give it a very small amount and very gradually,each week over 3-4 weeks build it up to full strength..and if you are in the uk get back to me nd will help you more..
smoke ppl
smoke ppl
ggrant
New Member
CalMag is just a mixture of calcium and magnesium salts. It won't cause a nutrient imbalance and you can use it anytime. Some growers add CalMag to their water every time they water.
Unless I'm mistaken, the top growth looks very healthy. The lower leaves won't recover and will eventually die and fall off, which is fine. As long as the new growth is healthy, you are fine and have fixed the problem.
The pH is a bit of a pain, but not a deal breaker. If your water is slightly alkaline, which is the case with most supplies of municipal drinking water, you can add a bit of lemon juice or 5% vinegar to your water. I use one tsp per gallon, which will drop water with a pH of 8.5 to 6.5.
Not many water supplies are acidic (Scotland actually has perfect pH for cannabis, go figure!) and if they are, you wouldn't have to add anything. This is NOT a chemistry experiment, so don't keep on playing with your water to adjust the pH. Use the same water (with either some lemon juice or acetic acid, if needed) and use it consistently. The pH will slowly get back to normal. Trying to up it and lower it will cause pH fluctuation, which is the cause of the dappling on the leaves.
As I said, if the new leaves are healthy, just water and fertilize as usual and your plant will stay healthy. In a couple of weeks, the sick leaves will dry up and fall off (or you can cut them off). As I mentioned, you can post a message directly to my journal, if you have any questions!
Unless I'm mistaken, the top growth looks very healthy. The lower leaves won't recover and will eventually die and fall off, which is fine. As long as the new growth is healthy, you are fine and have fixed the problem.
The pH is a bit of a pain, but not a deal breaker. If your water is slightly alkaline, which is the case with most supplies of municipal drinking water, you can add a bit of lemon juice or 5% vinegar to your water. I use one tsp per gallon, which will drop water with a pH of 8.5 to 6.5.
Not many water supplies are acidic (Scotland actually has perfect pH for cannabis, go figure!) and if they are, you wouldn't have to add anything. This is NOT a chemistry experiment, so don't keep on playing with your water to adjust the pH. Use the same water (with either some lemon juice or acetic acid, if needed) and use it consistently. The pH will slowly get back to normal. Trying to up it and lower it will cause pH fluctuation, which is the cause of the dappling on the leaves.
As I said, if the new leaves are healthy, just water and fertilize as usual and your plant will stay healthy. In a couple of weeks, the sick leaves will dry up and fall off (or you can cut them off). As I mentioned, you can post a message directly to my journal, if you have any questions!
ggrant
New Member
Oh, the brown spots are probably from a magnesium deficiency.
I think someone recommended 1 tsp per gallon of Epsom salts. It's one tablespoon per gallon that's required!
The above quote is from the plant abuse chart on this site.
I think someone recommended 1 tsp per gallon of Epsom salts. It's one tablespoon per gallon that's required!
The above quote is from the plant abuse chart on this site.
Vampire
New Member
Every time with the epsom, that's very good to know indeed ggrant. Just wondering what your take is on molasses because mine has a high content of calcium and mag but I've been wondering if the plant absorbs it or is that content only referring to what humans absorb? It would make a difference in my fert proportions to know if it isn't referring to plants just humans. Maybe why my coco clones seem to have a weak stalk and whispy leaves. Cheers.
QueenTokelove
New Member
I would like to know this as well since I use molasses with my plants. I have two clones going now from bag seed that I have used molasses with. And their stalks look fine, nice and thick. The leaves are nice and green as well..
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