How important is nitrogen during flowering

[fourthree]

I have a 3 part nutrient system
Power feed npk 78
PK 13,14 npk 014
And, Bio diesel npk 0:?:1
(I know the "P" is high just don't know how high)...
Total, 7:15:23 (not including P levels of bio diesel).
My question is, what would happen if I dropped my powerfeed down by half, surely that would decrease the N factor, as the P and K are taking care of things. Could you guys help a brother out, I'm seeing to much growth still, need to reduce nitrogen I think, have placed a second screen and flattened as much as possible, need to see less vigorous leaf and stretch growth and more bud growth, buds are happening but still growing too much, yikes running out of room still have 6 weeks left and only 12-14" to grow in, what to do, any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks
Fourthree out.

 

[Old Salt]

If your plants are happy, you can try it. I think you'll develop a nitrogen deficiency if you do.

You say you are running out of room. Is your carbon filter above your light? Can you move it in the tent so you can get more room for your plants to grow? If not, perhaps you should consider moving it out of the tent. It's easier than you might think.

 

[farside05]

The concept that plants don't need a lot of Nitrogen during bloom and they need a bunch of Phosphorus is a fallacy. The ratios plants need shift very little over their lifetime. A N-P-K ratio 2-1-3 is desirable for veg and will work all the way through the grow. If anything, a slight bump in K during bloom to 2-1-4. You may slow your growth by cutting N, but that's only because you are starving your plant and your yield will suffer.

 

[SmokingWings]

Nitrogen is necessary for chlorophyll. Without the chlorophyll photosynthesis will stop. When photosynthesis stops the plant slowly starves. It certainly will stop producing any more flower buds.

I think that part of the problem is that people believe that a lot of fan leaves in the final harvest cause harsh smoke and if nitrogen promotes healthy leaf growth then nitrogen in flowering stage is bad.

They forget that the plant still uses nitrogen to help produce the sugar leaves, calyx and the other green plant material in the flower. If the plant does not have sugar leaves and calyxes then what would the trichomes stick to.

If the plant does not need nitrogen in the flowering stage why does it pull nitrogen out of the older fan leaves. If I think about it some, all the calyx and sugar leaves in flower have more surface area and weight than the old fan leaves which have yellowed and fallen off.

None of this means that we should just start dumping high nitrogen fertilizer into hydro or soil grows figuring that will produce more of what we want the plant to give us. It is a balancing act and when we delibertely grow inside, or even outside, we are creating an artificial environment and we should be in control.
.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

I tend to think GH and Fox Farm know more about it than me, so I follow and use GH's schedule. It calls for reduced N by half after the first week of bloom(Maxi series dry, drain to waste).

 

[TurboBucket]

I tend to think GH and Fox Farm know more about it than me, so I follow and use GH's schedule. It calls for reduced N by half after the first week of bloom(Maxi series dry, drain to waste).

I take every manufacturers recommendation with a grain of salt. Their job is to sell you more product.

I run foliage-pro 9-3-6 at 5ml per gallon, in flower I add 1ml per gallon of mag-pro 2-15-4.

Nitrogen is definitely important in flower contrary to popular belief

 

[SmokingWings]

@Bush Doctor 77, they do not eliminate it from the feeding schedule entirely. Seems that maintaining some level of incoming nitrogen is necessary for hydro style grows where the nutrients will be draining away from the roots, often as fast as they can drip off.

@fourthree, how long have the plants been in flower. This would give some of the others an idea of how soon the stretch will stop and they can give you an idea. Once the stretch slows down and stops the plant puts most of it energy into producing the flowers which can get larger as you mention. The flower is what you want, right.

Take a photo in regular light so we can see the grow area. Let us see the light set-up and how the plants are positioned at the floor or bottom. Someone might have a trick up their sleeve on how to get some more room between the tops of the plants and the lights.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

I take every manufacturers recommendation with a grain of salt. Their job is to sell you more product.

It doesn't sell more, just different at the same rates. Total amount of product is the same in bloom as veg just different ratios(it does go up in TDS later in bloom). Using your logic, wouldn't you use the same fertilizer on lawns and gardens and flowers throughout the growing cycle? Different plants have different requirements at different times of their life cycle.

 

[Old Salt]

Mine always shoot up during the stretch, then slow done, but keep growing until a week or three before harvest. I grow in coco/perlite, and feed nitrogen right through harvest with the General Hydroponics' Flora Trio. In flower they get 1/3 the Flora Grow that they receive in the vegetative stage.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Mine always shoot up during the stretch, then slow done, but keep growing until a week or three before harvest. I grow in coco/perlite, and feed nitrogen right through harvest with the General Hydroponics' Flora Trio. In flower they get 1/3 the Flora Grow that they receive in the vegetative stage.

I left mine under 6500K MH for the first two weeks in bloom on my last grow before I used HPS, and I do think it reduced stretch a bit, but can't quantify.

 

[TurboBucket]

plants have different requirements at different times of their life cycle.

Through multiple tissue samples taken throughout the life cycle it has been verified that the increased uptake in phosphorus for the Cannabis flowering cycle is minimal. I believe farside has them in his journal near the beginning. Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05

It doesn't sell more, just different at the same rates

More bottles= more products. 1 gal of solution is cheaper than two half gallons. Most folks don't run at recommended dosage either, manufacturers trying to sell you more than you actually need.

Using your logic, wouldn't you use the same fertilizer on lawns and gardens and flowers throughout the growing cycle?

Maybe your logic, but my lawn isnt hydro so.... No. Also my lawn isn't allowed to go to seed so it really only uptakes N in large amounts and little bit of K. Biosolid fertilizers provide a nice low dose with a little extra iron to keep a nice dark lawn with a slight hue of blue to it. Clay likes to lock up phosphorus so most nutrients designed for soil already have higher P than hydro nutes. Also potatoes and rye have vastly different nutrient requirements and depending on your soil type and crop rotation your going to need to treat your field differently. So again no not every plant type needs the same amount of nutrients. You can barely feed succulents because they use so little water for transpiration nutrients build up in the tissue rather quickly.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

Through multiple tissue samples taken throughout the life cycle it has been verified that the increased uptake in phosphorus for the Cannabis flowering cycle is minimal. I believe farside has them in his journal near the beginning. Growing Without Bloom Nutes By Farside05




More bottles= more products. 1 gal of solution is cheaper than two half gallons. Most folks don't run at recommended dosage either, manufacturers trying to sell you more than you actually need.





Maybe your logic, but my lawn isnt hydro so.... No. Also my lawn isn't allowed to go to seed so it really only uptakes N in large amounts and little bit of K. Biosolid fertilizers provide a nice low dose with a little extra iron to keep a nice dark lawn with a slight hue of blue to it. Clay likes to lock up phosphorus so most nutrients designed for soil already have higher P than hydro nutes. Also potatoes and rye have vastly different nutrient requirements and depending on your soil type and crop rotation your going to need to treat your field differently. So again no not every plant type needs the same amount of nutrients. You can barely feed succulents because they use so little water for transpiration nutrients build up in the tissue rather quickly.

So, lawns need the same nutes throughout the growing season? Layer lattice clays don't lock up any nutrients preferentially, and all soils don't have clays, only weathered soils. I have no clay in my glacial outwash soil. I'll stay with manufacture nute recommendations for hydro, as they spend money to develope their products, and have done more research independently and in conjunction with many learning institutions. Consumers aren't always stupid, and they learn what are good products and poor., so manufacturers try to make good products that give good results.

 

[Bush Doctor 77]

A second thought, do you want to minimize N in your final product(quality vs quantity). I like to minimize oxides of N that I inhale.

 

[bobrown14]

WE can look at this question a different way. How much N does a plant need to produce seeds??

Plants need nitrogen it's whole life for photosynthesis sure this is true.

When cannabis is flowering the whole point is to create seeds. How much of a contributor is Nitrogen in the reproduction process??

I grow organically so I don't feed the plant anything. I do know that any of you folks that see my plants in full on senescence down the back stretch wood say my plants are N staved until you puff on some 2 day old freshies smooth as silk.

If left to their own devices plants will uptake what they need from soil and use stored energy from the fan leaves to make flowers for seed production. They will also gladly take up N from the roots if its soluble and available and stay green all the way to harvest.

The results will be more N in the final product which means a longer cure time.

I will supplement some small amount of N going down the stretch but its not enough to keep the plants green. I use some liquid Llama poop water.
its very low in everything like .54 - .01 - .24 NPK and incorporate that as a bonus do it 1x a week the last 3-4 weeks.

So what happens to N during leaf senescence?? It was stored in the leaves when the plant was making chlorophyll.

 

[fourthree]

If your plants are happy, you can try it. I think you'll develop a nitrogen deficiency if you do.

You say you are running out of room. Is your carbon filter above your light? Can you move it in the tent so you can get more room for your plants to grow? If not, perhaps you should consider moving it out of the tent. It's easier than you might think.

Thanks for thoughts ol salt, my extraction is actually to the side as I'm running 600w led so I'm not to worried about exhaust being directly above, but I still have around as I said a little over a foot to grow in and also now since adding 2nd screen, have gained about another 2"-3"'s. Great idea about moving out of cupboard, but unfortunately I'm unable to expose anything. I'm just gonna have to keep going as this is my 1st attempt, and see what happens, thanks again.
Fourthree.

 

[HugePeckerhead]

Fox Farm drops off significantly as well with nitrogen in flower. I follow this to the T unless the plant shows more or less of something. Last 2 weeks of prior to harvest I stop feeds completely so they can use whatever is left of what they have stored up.

 

[Deketx]

I found out this past grow that yes! you need N throughout your grow. You always see the whole bloom nutes push and never N . well all you'd have to do was look at my plants the last several weeks to see they need N and that far into flower I decided not to go N heavy and added just a bit but not enough to reverse the severe yellowing.

 

[fourthree]

Thanks for information guys, again always get some good answer, and as with our plants, so it is with us that, a lot of heads is better than one. I'll post some pics in next couple of days to let you see what I have done and what else I can do.
Four three

 

[TorturedSoul]

It's really important during the first 40% of the flowering phase, lol - they don't call it "the stretch" for nothing.

 

[bobrown14]

This ^^^^ in stretch the plants are building a lot of biomass and N is very useful for that. Nitrogen is the most important nutrient for plants. Plants have the ability to move it around in the plant.

Down the stretch the N stored in the leaves as chlorophyll is broken down and nutrients (including N) are moved from the leaves to the flowers for seed production.

This process is called resorption. Plants roots actually slow down nutrient uptake as the plants mature. The leaves slowly begin to move the stored nutrients in the leaves to other parts of the plant in senescence. This process takes weeks.

Fan leaves break down, sugar leaves around flowers begin to get bigger and more plentiful. The N (and other nutrients) from the fan leaves is moved to the flowers for reproduction or seed making.