Hydroponics Experience Growers Advice

[jungle]

Hello All Grower, This is my 1st post ever.
Thank you for stopping by , I been search read + watch videos everyday and I still need help.
Sorry my English writing are not very good so please be kind.
I been grow in this setup for 3 time now and still have stunk grow in veg. and root turn brow in flower and finish with very low yield small poopcon buds ( 15 plants - 1lb. junk bud ) I know that suck , this are my 4th time now so before I give it up I need your help to see what I did wrong. If some one out there help me fix my problem I 'll deeply thanks that persons everytime i harvest and smoking my dank weeks. Thank you for all your time
HYDRO GROW

Strain - White widow
# of Plants - 15
Grow Type - Hydro
Grow Stage - Veg. = slow grow & skinny branches . Flower = Stretch to much with skinny branches.
Setup - Custom made Ebb & Flow 1) 90 gal. res. 15) 5 gal. black buckets ( this feed 2 hrs. on then 1 hr. off 24 hrs. a day ) + has air lift top feed ( this feed 1/2 hr. on then 3 hrs. off ) + under each bucket has 4" air stone ( this on 24 / 7 )
Light - 3000 Watt HPS air cool on light rail mover
Nutrients - General Hydronponics Flora Series ( Gro , Mic , Bloom ) add some Superthrive , Rapid Start , Cal / Mag , H202 , Diamond Nectar , Liquid Karma , Liquid Koolbloom , B-52 , Sweet , Bud Swel , Big Bud , Hydrozyme , use with 1/4 - 1/2 dose rec.
Medium - 1/2 in Rockwool cubes sit under drip ring then cover with Hydroton grow rocks.
PPM - Veg. 250 -700 then Flower 500-1200
PH - 5.8 - 6 at all time
RH - 43% to 50%
Room Temperature - 78 to 85
Solution Temperature - 67 to 70 ( on chiller & changed new solution every 2 - 3 weeks )
Room Square Footage - 15 X 20
Pests - None Known

 

[JJ Bones]

Are you using CO2? 85 is very hot without it.

How close are the lights, what is the PPM

 

[jungle]

Hello JJ Bones, Thank you for your reply.
No i'm not use co2 ( I only have filter fresh air intake )
The roon only go up to 85*f fell not day here where I live.
I make sure my lights about 18" - 24" about the plants.
the PPM in veg. start out 300ppm and lowly up to 700ppm when finish veg.
the PPM in flower start out 500ppm and lowly up to 1200ppm when finish flower.
Thank you for your time

 

[JJ Bones]

Have any pictures of your setup?

 

[jungle]

Wow you are one fast reply.
No I don't have any pics. yet
What do you like to see ? so don't have too post alot of pics that not going to be use here.
Thank you

 

[jungle]

I have some pics. I hope this will help my problem.
Thank you.
1st. pic. Custom black 5 gal. buckets, with 3/4" hose, top feed air lift, air stone in each buckets for RDWC control by timmer.

2nd pic.The one on the left is Complete Greenhouse Controller control my two pump outlets allow the water pumps to be controlled by the built in Adjustable Recycling Timer , control my lights , CO2 , AC , exhaust fans , area's temperature and humidity.
The one is The Tri-Meter it simultaneously monitor nutrients, pH, and temperature.

https://www.420
magazine.com/gallery/data/500/mail_4.jpg https://www.420
3rd pic. Light rail 5 on 2 air cool lights, one end is carbon filter in the room and the other end is 12" fan for the air to go outside.
[img]https://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/mail_4.jpg
4th pic. In Center is 90 gals. res. inside res. have float valve for auto. RO top up water, under have big air stone + up top have chiller run down to cool the water and have more o2.
On the feft have 2 Active Aqua Commercial Air Pump, 12 Outlets one on 24 hrs. a day for air stones in each buckets, and one control buy the timmer for air lift top feed.
On the right are Ebb & Flow control unit I set to circulating the water every 2 hrs.

 

[jungle]

Hello anybody home ?
Wow I have over 300 Viewer, is there anything that I need to do so someone can help me out ?
I know we have more them 1000 people in here that know what they are doing more then I do but I still have no help yet.

 

[Rodrigo]

Hi, jungle. (what's your native language?)

Right out of the gate I can see a few problem areas.
For one, I believe you over did it with your equipment, the word overkill comes to mind.
There's no point in buying a Ferrari if you don't know how to drive.

So, to the issues.

1. WATER & FEEDING
You are feeding way way way waaaay too much. you are watering for 16 hours a day!!!, this is too much! I don't know where you got this schedule but it is WRONG. Change your schedule to water the plants for ONLY 15 minutes, three times a day, during lights on, for a total of 45 minutes a day. Don't water while they're sleeping because it is too inefficient to be worth it.
Also if you use a combination of systems

2. NUTRIENTS
WTFFFFF!!!!! are you seriously using all that stuff combined? no wonder your plants don't grow, you're smothering them. I've said it before and I say it again, when it comes to additives (nutrients or otherwise) less is always more.
It seems to me that you'll benefit from using a 1 part nutrient solution (only one product, don't mix stuff expecting to get better results, it doesn't quite work that way). But for fuck's sake, please stop using all that shit together!!!
The buds and the plant DO NOT GROW BIGGER because you use every enhancer you can get your hands on, of all the product you use, keep only the Flora Series, or my personal recommendation, Iguana Juice from Advanced Nutrients. It's a one part solution (3,5ml/lt of water and ready) so it's very easy to use, it's all organic with a neutral PH and the results will blow your mind. The one liter bottle costs US$60 (bigger jugs available), in my case that's good because I only have a 5gl res so I don't use too much and one bottle lasts for about 7-8 months (in my system), but with a 90gl res you need 1200ml every time you change the water, I don't know how this cost compares to the current cocktail of crap you're using but it has got to be much cheaper.

3. SYSTEM
I think you're confused. you mention a custom made E&F, a drip ring, RDWC, and an air lift top feed (I assume for the drip).
Some of these systems are not compatible with one another, for instance you can't have a DWC mixed with E&F because they work in different ways, for instance E&F submerges the roots in water whilst the DWC sprays them and don't use much medium or a big bucket (by the way, are those buckets filled with clay pellets or is there empty space? can you describe the inside of the bucket and how you designed your watering system?)
Anyway, again you did too much, you're gonna have to redesign your setup to accommodate only one system.

4. MEDIUM
1/2 (half) inch cubes don't exist, the minimum size is 1.5x1.5x1.5 inches.

5. OXYGEN
You don't need to have a diffuser in each bucket unless you're using a DWC system (which you say you have) for an E&F you only need a diffuser in the res.

6. TEMPERATURES
Your room temp is good but the water temp is a bit too cold, just leave it alone at room temperature, you don't need to spend power on a chiller, because you don't need the water to be chilled. 77 is about the optimal temp, but a little higher is OK, so just leave it alone.

7. GROWTH
The branches always grow a little skinny while in veg state, this may be further affected by the amazingly ridiculous amount (no offense) of stuff you put on your water. The nutes I use make the branches a little thicker. Also the slow growth is most likely because of all the stuff you put in.
While in flower they stretch too much because your light is too far away, so the plant stretches fast to get closer. Move the light down closer to the plants so they don't have to stretch to look for light, this will also help with the branches because if the plant doesn't use energy reaching for light it will have more energy to help grow the buds and thick the branches.

8. LIGHTS
3000W is A LOT for only 15 plants, but when it comes to lights, the more the better, as long as you can keep the air moving and the temps within the correct parameters. I see on Pic. 2 the Greenhouse Controller, I see the timer setup for 18/6, this is the veg schedule and you have small and big plants together under the same lights, how are you going to separate the plants for flower and veg? flowering does not occur under 18/6 unless you're growing autos, and if you change it to 12/12 then the small plants will also bud even if the are just a few inches tall. So keeping them separate is essential.

9. GENERAL
On Pic 1, on the back you can see a silver duct, what is it for?
Do you have fans moving the air around?


I think that is all, sorry for the length, but I like to be thorough and there was a lot to say.

Good luck and Happy growing!

If you need anything else or if you need more information about any of the things I wrote then ask right here and I'll answer as soon as I can.

 

[jungle]

Hello Rodrigo,
Thank you so much for your time and good info.
My native language is Vietnamese.
#1 I control the E&F to fill up the buckets at the bottom of the nest pots for 2 hrs. and back to the res. for 1 hr. 24/7. each buckets have 4" air stones on for 24/7. as soon as I see roots grow in the water i'll raise the nest pots off the water about 2".
About the air lift top feed i only feed 1/2 hr. on then 6 hrs. off ( sorry not 3hrs. ) that about 1.5 hrs. feed a day light on only, but i'll cut down on feeding like you said.
# 2 I'll do more research and use your recommendation on Iguana Juice from Advanced Nutrients and stop use the nutrients that I have now.
Do I only need Iguana Juice Grow & Bloom only or do I need to get other things what your recommendation ?
# 3 I think I did too much, can you help me redesign ? only if you have the time.
I control the E&F unit to recirculating the water, from the buckets to the res. ( only fill up at the bottom of the nest pot.)
In each bucket have air stone so it work like RDWC.
An air lift top feed with drip ring that I make in each bucket ( feed .5 hr them off for 6 hrs. ) this will help feed the new clone in 1.5" RW. that sit on the top filled with clay pellets in 10" nest pot, ( the clay pellets nest pot are too tall so the bubbles from the bottom of the bucket not touching the clone base.
1.5" Rockwool cubes clone sit under drip ring then cover with Hydroton / clay pellets inside 10" nest pot on top 5gal. bucket.
when the water fill up to the bottom of the nest pot the air pump kick on and push the bubbles up through 1/2 " hose through the drip ring to feed the clones, ( this only on for .5 hr. them off for 6 hrs, light on only )
# 4 Sorry 1.5" Rockwool cubes.
# 5 I use the E&F system before and have problem with the roots sit in stagnant water that why I add air stone and control the E&F as RDWC.
Yes I do have an big air stone in my res. + a return water pump from my chiller for more 02.
# 6 I set my chiller at 78*f if it to hot it will kick on and if it to cold in the winter I have a heater in the res. will keep the nutrients in the res. about 78*f.
# 7 Very good points, i'll stop add all the stuff that I have read online. and will try to use Iguana Juice from Advanced Nutrients.
I will move the light down closer to the plants when flower for sure.
# 8 I use 3 x 1000w HPS. on light mover and still not cover all 15 plants space.
I do have 4 wall fans on each wall and 2 fans on the bottom to move the air.
Yes i set the Greenhouse Controller for 18/6 for veg.
The big plants i move them on the outside and the small plants in the center where they are more lights they will grow faster ( Yes you are right I will try to keep the clones at the same high next time.
# 9 That silver duct is from the carbon filter hang on the ceiling with the swivel hooks so when the moving light rail moved the filtter can turn with it, so the ducting is not twist, the other end will go too the light, i take it off because i don't need the carbon filter in veg.
Yes i do have fans move the air around i have 4 on the top wall and 2 on the floor + 1 intake air filtter from the outside in the room that sit on the bottom of one corner with 8" fan on speed controller to control how much air in the room and on other corner ceiling i have vent air on on 10" fan on speed control how much air out, this way i can keep my room at close to 78*f
Thank you for all your time to help me out. Yes i do want to be a happy grower, i been trying for little a year now.

 

[AZ007]

6. TEMPERATURES
Your room temp is good but the water temp is a bit too cold, just leave it alone at room temperature, you don't need to spend power on a chiller, because you don't need the water to be chilled. 77 is about the optimal temp, but a little higher is OK, so just leave it alone.

Hi Rodrigo, id like to quote this because i was having some problems myself, i started to notice a little dark spot, on the tip of one of the roots, that looked like mold, so i thought it might have been the water temp, which is usually at 80F, and i did alot of reading, and a lot of researching, and everywhere said the ideal temp for ur water is to be at 69F. so u keep urs at 77 and uve never had any problems with that?

 

[Rodrigo]

Hi Rodrigo, id like to quote this because i was having some problems myself, i started to notice a little dark spot, on the tip of one of the roots, that looked like mold, so i thought it might have been the water temp, which is usually at 80F, and i did alot of reading, and a lot of researching, and everywhere said the ideal temp for ur water is to be at 69F. so u keep urs at 77 and uve never had any problems with that?

Hi, Stoner (aren't we all? hehe)

First, you should NEVER be able to see roots, they are not made to handle light and it damages them. For example, have you noticed that after harvest when you remove the root system to trow it away the roots are white, but after a while they turn darker, kinda like rust? (I'm a bit colorblind so it's hard sometimes to exactly categorize a color, sorry about that) that's the light. So if you see brown spots in your roots is probably because you're looking at them all the time! lol. Although it might be something else, but def not a temp problem.
It'd help to know what kind of system you have.

I have never had any problems of any kind. On the last batch I had a problem with one of the timers and the girls in veg were watered for 13 hours straight, the outcome was that the leaves started turning yellow (a strong, radioactive yellow) from the outside in but stopped about the middle of the leaf, they grew shorter than expected after flowering but still yielded about the same as the previous batch. I never figured out what actually happened within the plant (what was the deficiency or whatever it what that caused the yellowing and the shorter plant)

The ideal water temp for flower and veg is about 25°C, later in the flower cycle you lower it to about 18°C (for the last 2 weeks), this tricks the plant into thinking that 'winter is coming' for real now so in a last effort to reproduce (the one single purpose of a plant) the go into turbo mode and the buds get larger faster. Or so is the theory, I haven't been able to prove it yet, but I'm hoping to with this batch, which is due for harvest the first week of August.

Good luck and Happy Growing!!

 

[oldman60]

"6. TEMPERATURES
Your room temp is good but the water temp is a bit too cold, just leave it alone at room temperature, you don't need to spend power on a chiller, because you don't need the water to be chilled. 77 is about the optimal temp, but a little higher is OK, so just leave it alone."

I tend to agree with stoner. Everything I've read says 68 is the desired target. Having said that you can get by
with higher temps if you treat your water with zone, hydrozyme. Root rot loves warmer temps (brown roots).

As far as looking at your roots. It's not really a problem unless you are leaving them expose for long periods of time.
In my single buckets the roots see light every day when I test the water. Never been a problem.

I agree with Rodrigo about your nutes. Cut out everything except the three base nutes, calmag, and the hydorzyme
while vegging and when you flip to bloom pick out one of the bloom boosters you have and start adding that.

Nice set up you have there. When you get it dialed in you will be swimming in buds.

 

[Rodrigo]

#1 I control the E&F to fill up the buckets at the bottom of the nest pots for 2 hrs. and back to the res. for 1 hr. 24/7. each buckets have 4" air stones on for 24/7. as soon as I see roots grow in the water i'll raise the nest pots off the water about 2".
About the air lift top feed i only feed 1/2 hr. on then 6 hrs. off ( sorry not 3hrs. ) that about 1.5 hrs. feed a day light on only, but i'll cut down on feeding like you said.

An E&F and DWC (or RDWC) systems are incompatible because they work different; in a E&F system you have a res under a flood table, not a bucket, you can still use a bucket but you will have to use a lot more medium (hydroton) and a lot more water than what you actually need so your expenses will go higher. The way it works is water flows from the res into the flood table from below and COVERS the medium and the root system, water stays there for 15 minutes (you need to have a return so the water stays at a certain level, usually an inch under the surface) and then all of it drains back into the res by gravity.

In a DWC system you have a bucket under nest pots like you have but water does not drain from there, there is constantly water in the bucket and the air bubbles spray the roots, but the root system is not covered (I believe this is what you are doing?) and I believe this is supposed to be on all the time, not on a schedule.

I'd recommend the E&F, is much simpler, you use less stuff, and to me is the most efficient.
The drip system is not doing any good, think about it this way, what is the point in spending money in the equipment necessary to gently spray the roots from below if you are going to water them from above anyway. (I can elaborate more on this)

# 2 I'll do more research and use your recommendation on Iguana Juice from Advanced Nutrients and stop use the nutrients that I have now.
Do I only need Iguana Juice Grow & Bloom only or do I need to get other things what your recommendation ?

You only need those two, grow for veg and bloom for flower, use at 3 or 3,5 ml per liter of water (1 gallon = 3,8 liters)
You will thank me for this, trust me, you will love the product.

# 3 I think I did too much, can you help me redesign ? only if you have the time.
I control the E&F unit to recirculating the water, from the buckets to the res. ( only fill up at the bottom of the nest pot.)
In each bucket have air stone so it work like RDWC.
An air lift top feed with drip ring that I make in each bucket ( feed .5 hr them off for 6 hrs. ) this will help feed the new clone in 1.5" RW. that sit on the top filled with clay pellets in 10" nest pot, ( the clay pellets nest pot are too tall so the bubbles from the bottom of the bucket not touching the clone base.
1.5" Rockwool cubes clone sit under drip ring then cover with Hydroton / clay pellets inside 10" nest pot on top 5gal. bucket.
when the water fill up to the bottom of the nest pot the air pump kick on and push the bubbles up through 1/2 " hose through the drip ring to feed the clones, ( this only on for .5 hr. them off for 6 hrs, light on only )

Yes, I can help you redesign your system but it's going to take time, effort, and probably some money to get the things you need and don't have. You will need to get rid of some equipment anyway so if you can get refunds for some things you should be ok (the chiller, for example, is not necessary AT ALL, you can safely return it)
For the clones and any plant in veg you do not need a complicated system, a drip is perfect, but you don't need to have them in a bucket with hydroton or anything like that, the RW cube is more than enough medium. I put my clones in 1.5" cubes at first and just leave them there, once I know that they survived I put the small cube into a bigger one (4x4x3.25) and hook up the drip.
The clones and the bigger plants (which are in veg) get fed also 3 times a day during light on and only for 15 minutes.

# 5 I use the E&F system before and have problem with the roots sit in stagnant water that why I add air stone and control the E&F as RDWC.
Yes I do have an big air stone in my res. + a return water pump from my chiller for more 02.

Ok, the roots are never supposed to sit in water (for a long period), if this happened with an E&F system you built the you did it wrong. I'll explain my systems in detail in a separate post.
I have air stones in both my res as well, this is more than enough O2 in the water. Again, you do not need a chiller.

# 6 I set my chiller at 78*f if it to hot it will kick on and if it to cold in the winter I have a heater in the res. will keep the nutrients in the res. about 78*f.

Room temp, my friend.
It's winter now where I'm from so it's very cold, I keep a common aquarium heater in the res set to 26°C. that's enough.
In the summer, even though outside temperatures in the shade can get as high as 37°C, the water remains at a comfortable 24°C and it does not get higher than that. So again no chiller needed.

# 7 Very good points, i'll stop add all the stuff that I have read online. and will try to use Iguana Juice from Advanced Nutrients.
I will move the light down closer to the plants when flower for sure.

That's my recommendation on nutes, because they work so good that I HAVE to recommend it, but you can still use other nutes, just chose ONE.
When you move the lights closer (in flower), take a temperature reading at the top of the plant, make sure that the temp reaching the top of the plant does not go higher that 90, that's deadly, you can put it as closely as you want as long as you don't reach dangerous temperatures. so be careful or you will burn the top.

# 8 I use 3 x 1000w HPS. on light mover and still not cover all 15 plants space.
I do have 4 wall fans on each wall and 2 fans on the bottom to move the air.
Yes i set the Greenhouse Controller for 18/6 for veg.
The big plants i move them on the outside and the small plants in the center where they are more lights they will grow faster ( Yes you are right I will try to keep the clones at the same high next time.

If you have 3 lights, then I can teach a way so you can harvest every 3 weeks (maybe 3 and half or 4, depending on the strain) and a lot more than 15 plants if you want, with the space you have available you should be able to grow over 50, I think, I'll need more specifics to figure that but still, you can do a lot lot better.
Anyway, this is something you can most definitely improve upon.

# 9 That silver duct is from the carbon filter hang on the ceiling with the swivel hooks so when the moving light rail moved the filtter can turn with it, so the ducting is not twist, the other end will go too the light, i take it off because i don't need the carbon filter in veg.
Yes i do have fans move the air around i have 4 on the top wall and 2 on the floor + 1 intake air filtter from the outside in the room that sit on the bottom of one corner with 8" fan on speed controller to control how much air in the room and on other corner ceiling i have vent air on on 10" fan on speed control how much air out, this way i can keep my room at close to 78*f
Thank you for all your time to help me out. Yes i do want to be a happy grower, i been trying for little a year now.

I think you can also improve your air circulation system, I'm not sure I understand how you have the carbon filter connected but for now that doesn't matter, there's a lot more to do.

Is everything clear so far?

 

[Rodrigo]

I tend to agree with stoner. Everything I've read says 68 is the desired target. Having said that you can get by
with higher temps if you treat your water with zone, hydrozyme. Root rot loves warmer temps (brown roots).

I think it's a bit of a grey area, I keep mine at about 77 using a common aquarium heater (veg and flower) (with a thermostat so it turns itself off) and I don't suffer from root rot. I drop the temp to about 68 for the last 2 weeks to further trick the plant into thinking that winter is getting worse so in a last effort to reproduce they go into turbo mode and boost bud growth so you get bigger buds.
But you're not wrong, though, you can keep the water at a constant 68, but I believe that it is not necessary. Agree to disagree?
However treating the water for a higher temp is definitely not necessary, I know this for a fact.

As far as looking at your roots. It's not really a problem unless you are leaving them expose for long periods of time.
In my single buckets the roots see light every day when I test the water. Never been a problem.

You're right, short exposures may not cause noticeable damage, but still I believe is better to leave the roots alone, the fact is that the roots do not like light.

 

[jungle]

O BOY, MY SYSTEM ALL MEST UP.
O # 6 SORRY THE NUTR. TEMP. IS 68*f NOT 78*f

 

[GreatLife4All]

I think it's a bit of a grey area

You have given some good advice in this thread. But, actually, this is not a grey area. It has been researched and proven that your advice is wrong. I will not say that you can not grow under the conditions that you state - it is just not optimal and can quickly lead to problems.

Research shows that the best root growth occurs between 70 and 75 degrees F. The issue is that this is also the optimal temperature range at which bacteria and fungus will grow. The other issue unique to hydro systems is dissolved oxygen levels - the higher the temperature, the lower the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water.

Here is a quote from some of the research that has been done:

For example, the oxygen content of a fully aerated solution at 50 F (10 C) is about 13 ppm, but as the solution warms up to 68 F (20 C) the ability of the liquid to 'hold' oxygen drops to 9-10 ppm.

By the time the solution has reached 86 F (30 C) it is only 7 ppm. While this may not seem like a huge drop in the amount of DO, we have to remember that as the temperature of the root system warms, the rate of respiration of the root tissue also increases and more oxygen is required by the plant. For example, the respiration rate of the roots will double for each 10 C rise in temperature up to 86 F (30 C).

So the situation can develop where the solution temperature increases from 68-86 F (20-30 C) during the day, with a mature crop, then the requirement for oxygen will double while the oxygen carrying capacity of the solution will drop by 25%. This means that the DO in solution will be much more rapidly depleted and then plants can suffer from oxygen starvation (root rot) for a period of time.

Perhaps one of the commonest problems in hydroponic systems is the Pythium pathogen. What many growers do not realize is that Pythium, being an "opportunist" fungi, often takes advantage of plants which have been stressed by a combination of high temperatures and oxygen starvation in the root zone. Pythium is usually described as a "secondary infection" meaning that the Pythium spores that are actually common in just about all hydroponic systems, don't actually attack the plant until it has been damaged in some way. Pythium is everywhere, so the best defense is a healthy plant.
​

Because of the trade-offs between optimal root growth, optimal bacterial/fungal growth conditions, and dissolved oxygen levels - marijuana plants will grow best with an air temp of 75 and a reservoir temp of 68 or cooler. That is just the way it is.

I have also personally grown with a reservoir cooler and without in the same RDWC system - there is no doubt that plant growth is better with a cooler.

The best research by experts indicates that what you are advising is wrong - and my personal experience agrees with the experts. Anyone can google and find all the information needed to support what I am saying.

 

[GreatLife4All]

In a DWC system you have a bucket under nest pots like you have but water does not drain from there, there is constantly water in the bucket and the air bubbles spray the roots, but the root system is not covered

In a DWC system, about 2/3s of the roots are under water at all times. The primary purpose of an airstone is to add dissolved oxygen to the water - not to splash nutrients up onto the roots.

 

[Rodrigo]

I stand corrected, then.
Luckily I haven't had problems so far. I'll lower the res temps and see if there's a noticeable difference, or any difference for that matter.
Thank you for your input

 

[Rodrigo]

In a DWC system, about 2/3s of the roots are under water at all times. The primary purpose of an airstone is to add dissolved oxygen to the water - not to splash nutrients up onto the roots.

I stand corrected again, when I was researching different systems I read that that's how the DWC worked (maybe at some point I got confused with another system, who knows), however It always struck me as odd that a Deep Water Culture wasn't a culture deep in water. I guess that's exactly what it was! so my bad.

My apologies for the wrong information, and thanks again for the right information

 

[AZ007]

It'd help to know what kind of system you have.

Very very simple just a single dwc bucket setup that im tryin to make a monstrous plant out of.