Leaves curling up and turning yellow & brown: might be dying

[MrGritz]

Thank you ahead of time to anyone who takes time out of their day to help me out!

So I’m in what appears to be a somewhat dire situation with my single purple thai plant. Up until now, things have been going pretty smoothly and consistently. Maybe a bit slow growing, but it’s a strain with a longer cycle so I haven’t been worried. However, within the last day or two, many of her lower leaves have begun to turn a brownish-yellow color towards the tips and along the outer edges. They have also begun to curl up at the tips. Also, one of the lower branches in drooping over and looking pretty awful.

Towards the top, some of the newer fan leaves are developing a darker color (maybe brownish-greyish-purple lol) around the edges. For a couple weeks, I’ve seen some chlorosis in the new growth. But as this is only my second grow, I didn’t know what it was and didn’t think too much of it until the last couple days.

Growing conditions: Outdoors, temps 70-90 F, rh 45-95% (though usually not that high). Soil: 30% Foxfarms Happy Frog, 30% Foxfarms Ocean Forest, 25-30% perlite, 10% peat moss. She’s in a 2.8 L pot with decent drainage. pH has been a bit of trouble, it has floated at about 7, maybe slightly higher like 7.2 at times. I don’t have citric or phosphoric acid yet, so for the last 2-3 days I have used diluted apple cider vinegar because I was panicking a bit about the pH. I think this could maybe be the culprit idk.

I’ve been more careful of pests and fungal infections this year by alternating between neem oil and B. amyloliquefaciens each week (applying one of them once a week). Unfortunately I haven’t gotten myself an organic fertilizer yet so I have been using Jack’s All Purpose (I know, feel free to laugh at me). It’s a 20-20-20 with micros as well but in very small quantities. I feed her once every week or two. I think it may be the most likely culprit because it’s a salt based fert and I’m speculating it may have caused lockout. Also, 2 days ago, I finally upped my fert concentration to the recommended dose for outdoor plants on the package. This was definitely a bit more than I had given her to this point. I know the best move is probably to flush the soil but I’m concerned because it has been raining quite a bit this week and the soil still has some moisture. It didn’t rain the last two days tho, so it hasn’t already naturally flushed that fert.

So I think the issue has gotta be the diluted apple cider vinegar, the consistently slightly high pH, or probably most likely, the recent heavy feeding. I also think maybe a magnesium or potassium deficiency, but that could be caused by the lockout I think. If anyone has any advice for me that would be hugely appreciated, she looks pretty sick and I think she might die if I don’t do something soon. I will try to attach some pics, but I’m posting from my phone so I hope it works. Oh, and this is my first post here, so I apologize for my ignorance but thank you for your patience!

 

[Morda Grown]

There will be others along shortly, imo it looks to be root bound in a very small pot. Is it an Auto?

Edit Also yes stop with the vineger as it is used as a herbicide. (Weed Control) The amount you would need to adjust the PH is more than the one plant in a container can handle.

 

[MrGritz]

There will be others along shortly, imo it looks to be root bound in a very small pot. Is it an Auto?

Edit Also yes stop with the vineger as it is used as a herbicide. (Weed Control) The amount you would need to adjust the PH is more than the one plant in a container can handle.

Awesome, that’s very helpful, thank you! I’ll definitely stop with the vinegar, I’m an idiot for that lol. Oh, and no it’s not an auto, it’s photoperiod.

But yeah I think you’re right about it being root bound. I was waiting for all the rainy days to pass and the plant to have a good day of sun before transplanting, but I guess I shouldn’t have waited. I just gave her one quick flush, but do you think that was the right move to get rid of the vinegar? Do you think I should do another flush? Also, should I try to transplant immediately or should I see what happens with the flush and allow some time to dry?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Phytoplankton]

Agree, that's a very small container, and once it gets rootbound for every new leaf that comes out, an old one must die, because the roots just simply can't transport enough nutrients, you may have some root rot issues too, the plant looks overwatered. PH shouldn't be a huge issue in a soil grow, as the soils (Fox Farm, OF, and HF) are acidic soils and should have buffering capability (Unless of course your water is PH 8 or above). What's the PH of the water coming out of the pot? If it were me, I'd re-pot that plant into a much larger container at least twice the size of the one it's in now, in fact, I'd go with a 5 or 7 gallon fabric pot. (Remember that a nursery pot (or fabric) advertised as 5 gallons is actually only about 3.8 gallons, at 7 gallon pot is barely 6 gallons, it's just the way "nursery pots" are measured.

 

[Morda Grown]

That should be fine, you don't want to add more stress by more flushing. The new soil should be enough for it to start recovering. I would just use water for a couple weeks and let the ferts go for now. So long as you have good drainage rain is not going to hurt it. If you are worried about too much water, you can always cover the dirt with tin foil and dome it in the center down toward the side. That will help keep most of the rain out. PH 7 is a little high but, not anything that will drastically harm growth. My PH is around 6.8 and moves up and down.

 

[MrGritz]

That should be fine, you don't want to add more stress by more flushing. The new soil should be enough for it to start recovering. I would just use water for a couple weeks and let the ferts go for now. So long as you have good drainage rain is not going to hurt it. If you are worried about too much water, you can always cover the dirt with tin foil and dome it in the center down toward the side. That will help keep most of the rain out. PH 7 is a little high but, not anything that will drastically harm growth. My PH is around 6.8 and moves up and down.

Ok, I’ll leave it with just the one flush. You think I should transplant it right now or should I give it a couple days to dry out first?

And thank you for the advice about the tin foil dome, that’s a good idea

 

[Morda Grown]

I would do as soon as possible. Just be careful of the roots. Also as @Phytoplankton noted you may have root rot. Take a close look at the bottom of the roots. If they are white you are good to go. If they are rust and brownish looking you have root rot and that is a bigger issue.

Side note, put dirt to very top of the container and as you transplant leave a mound from center down to the outer edge of the pot. this helps some with drainage and the dirt will settle over time. Do not pack the dirt in the new pot just a light pat is all you need.

 

[MrGritz]

@Phytoplankton The pH is testing at about 7-7.2 right now. When I transplant it I will inspect for root rot like @Morda Grown recommended. I’m praying there’s no rot. I’ll mix in some extra perlite this time to help with drainage if you think that’s a good idea.

I have this pot right on my deck that I could use to transplant immediately. I’d prefer to use a fabric one but I think it would make sense for me to go with this one because it’s right here and I can transplant tonight. I put the plant next to it for comparison:

And yes those peppers are very crowded but they will be going soon lmao. Thanks for the help!

 

[Morda Grown]

That should be ok, in the future use dark colored pots. Add a few drain holes about an inch up from the bottom (I would do 4 about a 1/4 inch in size) You can paint or just cover that pot, the less light the better for roots. You could just do a cardboard or foil wrap around for this grow as well. It looks like crap but, works to keep light out.

 

[BlackPeter]

WOW @MordaGrown you're like superman lol such great advice!

 

[013]

Ditto on Morda…. Line that new bucket with aluminum foil. weed roots love air but will not tolerate exposure to light. These fabric smart pots do not air prune like everyone claims what is actually happening is light pruning of the roots.

Yep she outgrew that tiny pot of soil about 4 weeks ago. Bigger container is better is soil but helps to do gradual upcans, however this applies to photoperiod. Autos do not like to be transplanted - it can stunt autoflowers

 

[Morda Grown]

If you feel froggy you can do what is called a wicking pot, that is what you see in my pic above. It is some work but worth it for drainage in IMO.

I do a simalar set up. I did not add the fabric or nutes. I add my nutes to my soil and mix. It is just a guide and work great for drainage. The only time I water is when adding nutes or if it has been hot they start to wilt a bit. Other wise just rain is all that waters my plants.

 

[MrGritz]

If you feel froggy you can do what is called a wicking pot, that is what you see in my pic above. It is some work but worth it for drainage in IMO.

I do a simalar set up. I did not add the fabric or nutes. I add my nutes to my soil and mix. It is just a guide and work great for drainage. The only time I water is when adding nutes or if it has been hot they start to wilt a bit. Other wise just rain is all that waters my plants.

@Morda Grown I just finished transplanting into that new pot. That method you linked looks really interesting but I’m gonna hold off on it until next year because of time constraints.

I snagged some pictures of the roots and the repotted plant. I’m certainly no expert but to me it looks like the roots weren’t perfectly white, but they weren’t really rusty brown and slimy either. It did look a bit root bound, but honestly not as badly as I was expecting. I gently pulled the roots apart before replanting.

Is this what you meant about the mound? I’m gonna add the extra drainage holes and aluminum foil in the next couple days.

Here are the pics:

 

[Morda Grown]

Yes that looks like the beginning signs of rot. Let it dry out before watering. You still have some good white roots there. Lets hope you caught it in time. That also may be staining from the vinegar too.

Yes that is what I meant. What I do is set the plant in slightly shallow in the new pot and build up to the dirt from the original pot. Also more round shape and not so spiked. you can just work the area down from around the stem. Be careful not to expose the roots though.

 

[Morda Grown]

This is a crude drawing but like this...

 

[Phytoplankton]

The roots don't look too bad, I think you caught them in plenty of time. Good idea to break the root ball up a little, otherwise the roots will continue to grow in the old circular pattern and be slow to branch out into the new soil.

 

[MrGritz]

@Morda Grown @Phytoplankton Thanks a ton guys, you’re really coming in clutch here!

I’ll fix the soil and update you when I get home today. Also, I very lightly (as to not wet the new soil much at all) sprayed the new soil with some B. amyloliquefaciens and mixed it up before replanting. Maybe I should have run this by you guys beforehand, but the new soil was still pretty dry after adding it. Also, this treatment has been extremely gentle on this plant. Supposedly, it should destroy the fungi that cause root rot.

I will now let the soil dry out fully. If things seem to move in the right direction, would it be a good idea to continue treating the soil with B. amyloliquefaciens and/or neem oil once the soil has fully dried? Maybe I’m getting a bit ahead of myself tho lol

Oh, side note: I have a small room with a dehumidifier that I could potentially use for the plant at night to accelerate the drying process. Though maybe that would be risky if it would stress the plant or potentially expose it to airborne pathogens in the house. The forecast for the next couple days looks like a mix of clouds and sun, but I worry the humidity will probably be in the 70-90s.

 

[Morda Grown]

You are very welcome! These plants are very hearty and can take a lot. However, Autos from my understanding are less forgiving.

Neem oil is mostly for pest control not roots.

As far as treating the possible rot, I don't think it is bad enough that you need to worry about it. You have good roots there and they will take over. Just let it dry out naturally when you see the leaves droop then give it a good drink around the outer edges of the soil. Even if it rains it sould be fine. Most important part is drainage. Indoor grows and Outdoor grows are two different ways to grow. Let the plant adjust to the outdoor environment. Moving it in and out a lot is just not needed.

We all make mistakes and I'm no exception. I just noticed today that I had forgot to add holes in one of my wicking pots. We had a hard rain today and it filled the container up with water... over flowing. I just dumped out as much of the water as I could. Then drilled the hole that I forgot to add and covered the dirt so no more rain can get in. It will droop from the over water but, should be just fine. Once the rain passes I will uncover it and let it be.

 

[MrGritz]

@Morda Grown Ok, I’ll just kinda let the plant be for a while and monitor its moisture. I still need to do the tin foil wrap and drill those extra holes. I’ll probably do that today, if not then tomorrow.

I’m feeling a bit more confident with my soil mixture this time around. I added a significantly larger percentage of perlite to the mix, so drainage should be much better than it was in the tiny pot. Also, I think I fixed that soil mound, here’s the pic:

Hopefully I got it right this time lol, but maybe it’s still a bit steep idk

 

[Morda Grown]

The soil will settle over time, just give it a rest for a couple days and let it recover from the transplant shock. I think you will see improvement in a few days. Keep your eyes on the new growth that will be your indicator. The leaves that were showing issues will not change and may even look worse. It is just the plant taking what it can from the leaf before it discards it.

We all have been there in the beginning over worrying about our grow. Some times we need to step back slap our hands and just let the plant do it's thing.