Light Advice, Please

[Old Salt]

What is 'hard data' in grow lights? it seems to me there is no agreed metric that encompasses all types of lights.

Add in that different strains appear to do better with different spectra, and high PAR lights can be built that are useless as grow lights, making it seem to blow any idea of a standard metric right out of the water.

Perhaps we need to step back and take a different approach. That would be to compare the performance of a standard plant, grown in standard conditions with different lights, to the same standard plant grown in optimal conditions out in the sun.

 

[Stunned]

Actual test results. PPFD testing. Migro you tube channel.

I looked at it and his charts
Seems bent on promoting his lights
But who can blame him?

 

[Old Salt]

Actual test results. PPFD testing. Migro you tube channel.

Want me to build you a high PPFD light that's absolutely useless for growing?

 

[LiberalThinker]

Actual test results. PPFD testing. Migro you tube channel.

Low pressure sodium lights have the highest 'PAR' rating of any known light and it's 176 lumens per watt; PAR being how much of a light's spectrum is within the 400-700nm range. It has single wavelength between 400-700nm but all its energy is PAR light. Not much use though is it? This is what I mean about finding a properly useful metric.

 

[Jay T Trichomes]

I don't see the point in manufacturers calling them 1800w because they can only run less and maintain a reasonable service life. It's bollocks really. You can say a 50cc moped will do 120mph but how long will it last? They set them up for 300w and that's what they are. Aren't they? I think everybody should start talking about watts at the wall as standard when discussing LEDs.

I also agree with the wattage aspect. My quantum boards 4 of them wired to the meanwell driver pull 550watts from the wall when I have them dialed all the way up. So my 4 x 8 tent gets 1100 true watts of light

 

[Old Salt]

I also agree with the wattage aspect. My quantum boards 4 of them wired to the meanwell driver pull 550watts from the wall when I have them dialed all the way up. So my 4 x 8 tent gets 1100 true watts of light

How do you get from 550W at the wall to 1100 true watts? Do you have two sets, each drawing 550W from the wall?

 

[captaincronik]

Your all still running 600w in 4x4 with LED, Im doing same area with 315w, will run cooler.
Also, you can get remote ballast set ups to just have a light in tent, ballast external.
I ran one 315w cmh thru summer easy.

Yea.. so my sun system 630 has a dual bulb.. since i only have 2 fair size plants in there.. i turned one bulb off amd lowered it so its only running 315 watts... much better... i can hear the extraction fan cycling every 30 min or so for 3 or 4 min..

With both bulbs on ex fan runs the whole 12 hours... temps are still reasonable up to this point. But its annoying to hear it going all the time..

Although for most of winter im thinking i can easily get away with running both bulbs..

Il keep reading in the meantime. Im thinking i wanna go a little higher than 315 watts. But with a newer style led..
Lots to learn anyway... if im going to spend 800+ on a light i need to make sure its sized perfectly to run all year

 

[Stunned]

How do you get from 550W at the wall to 1100 true watts? Do you have two sets, each drawing 550W from the wall?

I was confused by this statement as well

 

[Stunned]

if im going to spend 800+ on a light i need to make sure its sized perfectly to run all year

Then, you want Quantums

 

[Jay T Trichomes]

I was confused by this statement as well

Yes my bad for not saying that there are two fixtures in that tent. I consider 4 quantum boards to be a light. And I have 8 boards in total in the 4 x 8

 

[Stunned]

ah....
8 boards.....
I'm jealous. I only have 6 lol

 

[Hdinkleman]

I don't see the point in manufacturers calling them 1800w because they can only run less and maintain a reasonable service life. It's bollocks really. You can say a 50cc moped will do 120mph but how long will it last? They set them up for 300w and that's what they are. Aren't they? I think everybody should start talking about watts at the wall as standard when discussing LEDs.

its a trick they scam people with no prior knowledge.
its something a shady business would do to sell an inferior product to unknowing customers

 

[Hdinkleman]

I looked at it and his charts
Seems bent on promoting his lights
But who can blame him?

lmaoooo what kind of light is it?

 

[Hdinkleman]

I would have to imagine that there are unethical sellers of LEDs based elsewhere, yes. Even if they aren't "fresh off the boat" to use your expression.

yeah im thinking of purchasing some leds from some nigerians i talked to online

 

[Lowrider72]

Hmmm.....1100w quantum vs 615w cmh...both in same 4' x 8' space.
Wonder whos grow is cheaper to run....

 

[captaincronik]

I have a SunSystem 315 CMH that I now only use in the winter. They give off infa red and are perfect to keep your plants warm in the winter. But as soon as normal temperatures arrive I switch to my Migro 4 COB set up.

The COB drivers are outside the 3'by 3' tent. COB's give off much less infa red, lighting is much more even with higher PAR. They are dimmable and they have a much higher efficiency of 2.0. Much easier to control the heat and the plants can go to higher temperatures without damage.

When you say cob drivers are outside of tent...
This is like the "ballast"?

So your not using one of the pre made board type lights with fans built in right. Im guessing those have all components in the light..?

 

[Old Salt]

When you say cob drivers are outside of tent...
This is like the "ballast"?

Yes, the driver has the same function as the ballast, maintaining the correct electrical parameters for the emitters (COBs or LEDs)

the pre made board type lights with fans built in right. Im guessing those have all components in the light..?

Yes. The reason for the fans is active cooling of closely packed light emitters. There is not enough surface area to dissipate the heat. Unlike HID bulbs, LEDs and COBs are most efficient when they are cool. Some lights, such as the Mars SP-250 and those based on Quantum Boards, have enough surface area so they don't require active cooling fans.

There are three parameters that define the performance of any grow light:

• spectrum;
• efficacy of the emitters or bulb; and
• efficiency of the ballast or driver.

The spectrum is pretty much self explanatory on this forum. The efficacy of the emitters or bulb is simply how much light is emitted per watt. This is often expressed in lumens/watt, but other means can be used. The driver or ballast efficiency is a measure of the output power with respect to the input power. The difference is usually dissipated as heat.

As an example, Mean Well drivers are up around 94% efficient. That means a 550 light fixture using them sends 517 watts to the emitters, and dissipates 33 watts as heat. That's roughly the same as five of the old style incandescent Christmas lights, or night lights. For comparison, my 300W blurple has drivers that are less than 85% efficient. It sends 255W to the emitters, and dissipates 45W as heat. So, the drivers in my 300W blurple generate more heat, and send less power to the emitters.

The passively cooled Quantum Boards have many small LEDs spaced out over a large surface area, so they require little in the line of a heat sink. The eight COB, 500W light I just finished, has eight 20mm dia emitters that use up to 62.5W each. They require more surface area to dissipate the heat, so I used pin style heat sinks as shown in the image below.

Pin Style Heat Sinks for Passive COB Cooling​

 

[captaincronik]

Yes, the driver has the same function as the ballast, maintaining the correct electrical parameters for the emitters (COBs or LEDs)



Yes. The reason for the fans is active cooling of closely packed light emitters. There is not enough surface area to dissipate the heat. Unlike HID bulbs, LEDs and COBs are most efficient when they are cool. Some lights, such as the Mars SP-250 and those based on Quantum Boards, have enough surface area so they don't require active cooling fans.

There are three parameters that define the performance of any grow light:

• spectrum;
• efficacy of the emitters or bulb; and
• efficiency of the ballast or driver.

The spectrum is pretty much self explanatory on this forum. The efficacy of the emitters or bulb is simply how much light is emitted per watt. This is often expressed in lumens/watt, but other means can be used. The driver or ballast efficiency is a measure of the output power with respect to the input power. The difference is usually dissipated as heat.

As an example, Mean Well drivers are up around 94% efficient. That means a 550 light fixture using them sends 517 watts to the emitters, and dissipates 33 watts as heat. That's roughly the same as five of the old style incandescent Christmas lights, or night lights. For comparison, my 300W blurple has drivers that are less than 85% efficient. It sends 255W to the emitters, and dissipates 45W as heat. So, the drivers in my 300W blurple generate more heat, and send less power to the emitters.

The passively cooled Quantum Boards have many small LEDs spaced out over a large surface area, so they require little in the line of a heat sink. The eight COB, 500W light I just finished, has eight 20mm dia emitters that use up to 62.5W each. They require more surface area to dissipate the heat, so I used pin style heat sinks as shown in the image below.

Pin Style Heat Sinks for Passive COB Cooling​

And so this stlye of passive cooling allows you to keep the "inefficient" heat out of the grow space...?

So there are no fans cooling your boards?.

Also about how much did it cost you to build your 500 watt system? Us or cad $

 

[captaincronik]

And so this stlye of passive cooling allows you to keep the "inefficient" heat out of the grow space...?

So there are no fans cooling your boards?.

Also about how much did it cost you to build your 500 watt system? Us or cad $

...

I just realized that that picture is the light board itself..
Mounted on glass?

 

[Hdinkleman]

yeah dude the new thing is no fans lol
neither of my two lights has a fan, just heat sinks.
you mist have an old light whatever it is lol