Making fertilizer

[prankster]

So I came acros a few posts about the organic Earth Juice fertilizers and it seemed like a nice series of plantfeed. But i'm always worried about changing laws and WW3 so it would be nice if I could copy the stuff.
So I figured out some ratios of ingrediënts and stuff. Mixing it untilI I got the NPK ratios I wanted. Earth Juice Grow is 21 and flower is 0: 3:1. But since ingeredients with N were used I changed that to 1: 3:2. This is what I came up with:

Grow:

Bat guano (7: 3:1) 61,83%
Kelp (1:0,1:2) 14,48%
Potash (0:0:50) 4,2%
Bloodmeal (12:0:0) 11,99%
Bonemeal (3:15:0) 1,5%
Rock Phosphate (00) 3%
Bran Oats (2:0,8:0,6) 3%

= 300,845(21)

Flower:

Bat guano (7: 3:1) 24,5%
Kelp (1:0,1:2) 18,6%
Potash (0:0:50) 7,9%
Bonemeal (3:15:0) 7%
Rock Phosphate (00) 7%
Seabird quano (0: 11:0) 26,3%
Bran Oats (2:0,8:0,6) 8,7%

=228,5(1: 3:2)

So I have two question:

1: Do these recipes look reasonable?
2: How do I get the stuff liquid?

 

[ZeroTolerance]

Don't have a lot of experience growing weed in pure organic soils, but based on my experience growing tomatoes in soil those recipes look good. The only thing you might want to add is some azomite for micronutrients though the kelp should probably provide enough anyway.

About your second question, I don't think it's possible to get all that stuff liquid. Rock phosphate is extremely insoluble in water (think gravel) as are bone meal and oats. If you wanted to apply that stuff with a hose or sprayer you might be able to grind it up finely and make a slurry, then use a pump to spray it. That being said, I think your best bet would be to mix it into your soil or use it as a top dressing.

 

[SmokingWings]

Not sure what "changing laws" and "World War 3" have to do with it but making up fertilizer additives is a fun project and many of us do it either as part of the hobby or out of necessity or because it relates to what we do for a living. Many growers will use the ingredients listed as additives to their soil mixes.

Just guessing on this but I would believe that companies like Earth Juice will mix up the additives first, put them in water at very specific rates of dry material to specific amounts or volume of water. Then they will test the liquid to see what the new NPK numbers are. That is one of the ways the company can have a product for flowering with no nitrogen showing up in the NPK ratios even though we would run into a possibility of to much Nitrogen if we use the same base ingredients.

@ZeroTolerance brings up a point that has to be considered. Some of the ingredients you are considering are going to be in an insoluble form. The Bone Meal, Rock Phosphate and even Bat Guano & Seabird Guano will have a limited amount of water soluble nutrients available and the rest will take time for the bacteria to turn the insoluble materials into something that will be available to the plants. All of this changes the NPK numbers before and then after the solids are filtered out.

Some of the ingredients are very quickly broken down by microbe action. I am thinking that this will happen with the Kelp, Blood Meal and Oat Bran. When these ingredients are added to the water they will turn into a liquid compost pile in a few days. Using a large air pump the liquid might not smell all that bad for about a week or maybe two.

BTW, if WW3 breaks out I figure most of us will find out that the picnic is over and our food will come first and be almost impossible to come by.

 

[prankster]

Well thats a bummer. I like the 'see what you end up with' method. But that kind of research is a bit to much. So I started looking for liquid versions of some fertilizers and found some products that could be worked in some kind of solution. But the ingredient list has shortened a bit and I dont like that. Earth Juice has the philosophy of variation. Because if you only eat potatoes you dont like them anymore after a while. So im searching for more organic ingrediënts to expand these formulations. Soluble ones.

Grow (2 : 1 : 1)

Liquid Bone Meal (down to earth fertilizer, 0: 12 : 0) 0,32%
Liquid worm castings (konijnenfarm worm castings ,1 : 1,4 : 5) 1,06%
Liquid Kelp (Foxfarm, 0,5 : 0 : 0,5) 82,7%
Fish fertilizer (4 : 3 : 0,4) 15,92%

Flower (1 : 3 : 2)

Liquid Bone Meal (down to earth fertilizer, 0 : 12 : 0) 7,6%
Liquid worm castings (konijnenfarm worm castings, 1 : 1,4 : 5) 8,3%
Liquid Kelp (Foxfarm 0,5 : 0 : 0,5) 83,27%
Potash (0 : 0 : 50) 0,83%

Its a start.

 

[SmokingWings]

It does look like a better start. Now it is not as complicated since the list has been pared down.

Several questions.

What are you going to be growing in? As in, are you planning on growing in a natural soil mix or a water based hydroponic system or a mix of nutrient inert materials such as coco coir or peat moss? Knowing that would help some of the others come up with suggestions and tips.

There is a method for calculating the new NPK ratio after two or more ingredients have been mixed together. It came up in a similar thread sometime in the past 2 or 3 months. Looks like you might already know about it.

Are you in Australia? Just asking since at least one of the ingredients you are considering using seems to be only available there.

 

[Pat Puffer]

@prankster

Welcome to 420. It's a pleasure to have you join. Your concerns for WW3 and the like are not unfounded. There are small pockets of "small big time" growers that will wipe out a nutrient line in town. I have witnessed it and been a victim of it. So I got on the same train you are on. "I need to be able to make it myself".

Well as these members have stated, these dry amendments are mostly used to fortify the soil and break down to feed the microbes and then get to the plant.

Some take forever to break down. Like Bone Meal? Top dress 1 month before needed. Green Sand? Forget it! Hahaha. Some stuff like guanos are great and release quicker, but as mentioned, there are solids that need decomposition.

So...what is at our disposal, readily available at the grocery store and everyday items?

More than likely these liquids are a form of predigested form of food. Earth Juice? The ingredients are great. I see you want to make it. I love that attitude!

Liquid...kelp, oats, guanos, and more? Hmm...odd to think all that's in a bottle and ready for absorption. It is probably "pre-digested" by microbes and broken down for the plants. This is the part your missing.

As humans we get our nutrients from fruits and vegetables. Well...you ever hear of a compost pile? Good stuff, aye? Once broken down its great stuff for plants...hear me out.

There is a process called Korean Natural Farming. Normal garden weeds are combined with brown sugar and allowed to sit in a container. The sugar extracts the liquid out of the material. That extracted liquid is your fertilizer. Fruits and veggies? Same thing. Extract the juices out.

There are a few members here who brew their own ferts and they are trail blazers. Its not as easy as buying a bottle and asking members what your deficiency is once one arises.

It is a little more on the antiquated side as its about as popular as antiquing. No flaming skulls on your bottle or bold cartoon like fonts. You just ended up with a concentrated forms of fertilizer. Inputs are altered according to your grow phase.

If interested, just off the top of my head I know of @NuttyProfessor keeps bottles of fermantations to feed his plants...Beez02...something as well. All these growers get great results.

We have great nutrient sponsors as well. MegaCrop has the chemical powder to get you through. Geoflora has the organic amendments in a bag ready for top dressing. Blue Planet is a new sponsor who brings the pre-digested food to our forum. Yet, if none of these are sufficient to satisfy your DIY urge, check out...

-Fermented Fruit Juice
-Fermented Plant Juice
-Fish Amino Acid

Those 3 forms of homemade ferts should be enough to get a plant from start to finish and never need to order more bottles.

I will get a link to Nutty's lab of madness. This dude ferments dog food. ROFL...odd? Ya ever read the nutrition info and ingredients?

 

[Pat Puffer]

Just one thread I am hanging out at to learn more about these types of methods.

Nutty & His Antics

Another run , ok so im going gods gift again an amazing strain with the most relaxing feeling ever , i tried to track this auto down but couldn't so i made my own , i traced the parents og kush and granddadddy purple, cross them you get Gods gifts firstly i lined and primed my pots anti fungus...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Weaselcracker]

Well thats a bummer. I like the 'see what you end up with' method. But that kind of research is a bit to much. So I started looking for liquid versions of some fertilizers and found some products that could be worked in some kind of solution. But the ingredient list has shortened a bit and I dont like that. Earth Juice has the philosophy of variation. Because if you only eat potatoes you dont like them anymore after a while. So im searching for more organic ingrediënts to expand these formulations. Soluble ones.

Grow (2 : 1 : 1)

Liquid Bone Meal (down to earth fertilizer, 0: 12 : 0) 0,32%
Liquid worm castings (konijnenfarm worm castings ,1 : 1,4 : 5) 1,06%
Liquid Kelp (Foxfarm, 0,5 : 0 : 0,5) 82,7%
Fish fertilizer (4 : 3 : 0,4) 15,92%

Flower (1 : 3 : 2)

Liquid Bone Meal (down to earth fertilizer, 0 : 12 : 0) 7,6%
Liquid worm castings (konijnenfarm worm castings, 1 : 1,4 : 5) 8,3%
Liquid Kelp (Foxfarm 0,5 : 0 : 0,5) 83,27%
Potash (0 : 0 : 50) 0,83%

Its a start.

When it comes to soluble nutrients -there are various nutrient calculator programs you can use to figure out what you’re actually giving the plants. All fertilizers of any kind are composed from the same 14 elements in varying amounts. Doesn’t matter what they sources are.

Plants use 18 elements altogether if you include the four that they get from the air (C, O, N, and H).

But with solubles, unlike something like LOS organics, they’re all available immediately - and that’s not always a good thing if the mix is off.

Maybe more work than you want to put into it and I wouldn’t blame you. But if you’re making fertilizer.... without having some way of calculating the amounts of each element you’re giving the plants, it can be a bit of a crapshoot. There are some simple phone apps that can crunch those numbers you listed.

I use a free program called Hydro Buddy. It’s got a couple quirks. There’s a thread in the forum on how to use it.

 

[prankster]

The plan is to use it in high frequency drip fertigation in coir. For a Sativa dominant plant.

About the NPK calculations. The ratios are correct for NPK. It was calculated using some linear algebra in which i used the NPK ratios of the separate ingredients as column vectors in a matrix of a system of equations.
As far as the other elements. Mg, Ca and S; dont know if I got enough of that. And the rest is in such amounts that the ratio isn't really important. As long as its in the media when the plant needs it.

No. Im not in australia. I just googled to see what was available.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Aside from the NPK, your Ca and Mg are critically important too. Calcium in particular likes to get locked out and make issues given any chance at all.

The micro elements are pretty forgiving.

Sulphur isn’t as critical but greatly affects the smell.