My assumption is that this is early calcium def

[Weaselcracker]

It's just showing up in my Panama. I haven't had any calcium issues in years, it's just this one strain.
This is my first round growing Panama. I grow a bunch of other strains including a few other pure sativas.

I am growing in sunshine mix - peat moss and perlite soilless. HPS lights. All plants are getting about 5 ml/gallon of calmag and I don't think that's the issue.

My operating theory was that this strain likes a slightly different ph than the rest of my strains. I usually ph around 5.6 and everyone has been happy with that till now. I've been bumping it up a little in the last couple weeks though. Now that I look at the chart more and scratch my head I wonder if maybe I should be lowering the ph instead.

Just wondering if anyone out there wants to confirm that early calcium def does indeed look like this, which I'm sort of only 75% sure about.

And if anyone has any bright ideas or thoughts on this situation. Thanks in advance.

Young clone leaf

The one in flowering.

 

[Lazarus13]

I dunno man. In my experience calcium deficiencies have always manifested with brown necrotic spots. They never went light green first. Could possibly be Ca, just not as i have experienced it.

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[Weaselcracker]

I've read somewhere that in the earliest stages it starts out white.
I'll go take another pic of the older girl, she's got some leaves that seem more obvious- as in the specks are brown.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Ok here are some pics of the flowering girl. It does look maybe a little different than the typical rust spots now that I'm there taking photos....or maybe I'm just second guessing myself again.
In real life the spots look slightly browner than in the photos. Hmmmm. This just has to be a ph issue one way or another. It always is for me. ...


Really second guessing myself now- looking at phosphorus def and it fits better. You can also see an older leaf down low in the picture of the whole plant which really fits that. Does she want more phosphorus?
This problem hasn't really been changing much or worsening since early flowering- so I don't see her crying out for phosphorus.
Doesn't seem likely that the young clones would be showing phosphorus deficiencies though so I suppose it's a mix of deficiencies (as it usually is) caused by ph. (?????)

Damn .. only a few minutes into this question and already doubting the title of the thread. lol. Part of the process I guess.

 

[36Gr0w]

Any recent foliar spraying?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Nope. None, and I've got over a dozen strains in veg right now that aren't showing those spots. I know what you mean though- especially the young clones, as shown in the first pic, look a bit like they were sprayed with something.

Edit. Ok after much racking of brains and digging I found one of the places where I got the white spot/calcium def idea from. It was a post by Conradino in Tead's journal he was referring to the plant pictured. I'll pm him.

Looking nice, Tead. These tiny spots are signs of calcium deficiency, which this strain needs a lot as F1 grew in High Brix soil, which is rich in it. I'm not sure how you can pull it off in hydro, but it's probably doable.

 

[36Gr0w]

What nutrients are you using, and do they specify 5.6 ph? The soil ph should be higher than that.

 

[Weaselcracker]

Well I'm not in soil it's peat moss/perlite- soilless. And 5.6 has worked very well for me for quite a long time and still is with the rest of the strains as far as I can see.
I used to run my ph closer to 5.8- 6 but dropped it a bit after a side by side ph test grow. One plant at 5.2 and another clone at 6.2. The 5.2 one blew away the higher ph one quite quickly, which showed a bunch of problems and slow growth. No spots though come to think of it.

I'm using bottled Botanicare nutes. The Panama has been getting mostly Pure Blend bloom which is 2-3-5 if I remember right. And some calmag and silica.

I don't actually know if the bottles specify a ph but I they did I'd probably ignore it at this point as I've been using them for many years and would go with what I've learned, or think I've learned, instead.

 

[Conradino23]

Looks like light calcium def indeed, these yellowish spots are usually early sign of the problem.

 

[cnile]

How can it be a calmag issue at 5 ml / gal


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[Weaselcracker]

Cnile, deficiencies are usually caused by ph troubles when growing soilless and hydro. But sometimes some strains and phenos will just be hungrier for certain nutes. It does seem like this one has special needs of some sort, whether it's ph or nutrients I don't know.

And the more I look at it the more it doesn't look like calcium to me. Part of the problem was that I didn't have a good look at the colour under more natural light, until last night when I dragged it out of the flowering room and into veg.

I upped the calmag to 5, a few weeks ago. I usually ran it a little lower because it's got too much N in it for my liking. But judging by the young clones they're still not happy.

I'm thinking about something else now as well. Calcium def is meant to show up in the newer growth first - while these spots are on the older growth, in mine and Tead's plants both.

 

[Emilya Green]

Calcium def is meant to show up in the newer growth first - while these spots are on the older growth, in mine and Tead's plants both.

.
I don't think that I see a nutritional problem here, at least not now. If there was still a problem we would see dying leaves and a clear indication as to whether it was a mobile or non-mobile nutrient that was lacking. Also, we would either see problems at the top with a non mobile problem, or we would see strong cannibalization of the lower and middle leaves.
Here interestingly we only have involvement of some mid level leaves, and along with the spotting I see a little bit of tip burning right there too. It is my belief that we are looking at a window to the past by looking at these mid level leaves, and they are showing us that while they were developing, there indeed was a problem getting some of the nutrients, a bit too much of one thing and not enough of another... and I would guess that it was one of the major macronutrients that was being craved at the time, like potassium or phosphorus... but only momentarily, or those leaves would now be gone. The process started and then stopped before it took out those leaves, but they have not been able to repair themselves since activity moved up past them to the top.

It is my belief that what you see here is the result of a fluctuating pH while those leaves were dominant and the plant not able to get the needed nutrients at that moment in time. There is nothing you can do now to repair or correct those damaged areas, but the key point here is that the problem halted before it got worse, and it has not so far adversely affected the top. In those spots you are looking at mistakes made in the past... a history of how they were raised, and a tribute to you recognizing and correcting a problem before it got worse.

The top growth and the buds show good color and development now... I would not worry too much about this, other than recognizing why it happened and making sure not to do that same thing next time.

Good luck and garden blessings from mine to yours!
Emmie

 

[Weaselcracker]

Thanks Emilya for that very thoughtful reply and thank Conradino for the info on calcium. Lots to think about here.
It's true that the flowering plant isn't getting worse and I think we are mostly looking at a past event in her. The young clones showing spots makes less confident that it's all behind me though. And the fact remains that it was the only plant showing issues, out of 19 strains in the grow. So that's interesting, at least to me.
I'd be interested to see if some strains (as in- this one) prefer a different ph than other strains. I can't see any reason why that would be incredibly unusual or unexpected, but I'd still be interested in proving it one way or another.
I'll have to keep digesting this info and observing the plants. Once I get a few more clones going I'll probably do some side by side ph/nutrient torture tests to see if I can replicate the problem.
I have a feeling I'll be back on this thread again.
Thanks again you guys for taking the time to reply.

 

[upinsmoke365]

Have you considered a sulfur deficiency?

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[Weaselcracker]

Hmmm. Sulphur. No - I haven't. I assume that would be a ph related thing as well though if it was the case. From what I remember of that deficiency it's more of a yellowing problem- which isn't what I have going on now. I've been using the same nutrients for years and I doubt I'm short on sulphur. Not that I've ever considered the issue much.

 

[Emilya Green]

sulphur, being a non-mobile element, would show up as lacking in the top growth, and presents as a dramatic yellowing of the upper leaves and buds. This is not that.

 

[Emilya Green]

How did this go?

 

[Weaselcracker]

Hey Emilya. Thanks for checking back.
The plant totally went for shit after we talked here. I got more desperate, started a new thread on it, started googling around, and emailed Ace Seeds as well. They got back to me with a lot of helpful advice.
Turns out I was starving the thing to death.
I've grown about ten different pure sativa strains in my not so illustrious growing career, and every one of them was a light feeder. Without even realizing that I was making assumptions, I just assumed that the Panama would be similar- I never even considered it might not be. But apparently it's a heavy feeder and needs almost twice the nute level it was getting.
After I bumped up the nutes it stopped declining. By then all the big fans were dead. The smaller fans and the buds are still perfectly fine though and it doesn't seem to have been affected by the troubles. I think it managed to make up the feed difference when it ate all its fan leaves.

Blurry picture but - she's doing fine. I'll harvest her in a couple weeks or less.

So yeah- she displayed a whole range of symptoms which eventually got pretty severe. I'm still curious about the original question of those white spots being early calcium deficiency symptoms. When I get an opening in veg I'll purposely starve a plant for Ca and try to confirm what Conradino said.

Thanks a lot for your help.