Problems starting grow, please help

[SealieP]

Hello. First time posting please be gentle if I make some forum errors in my post.

Having trouble with clippings turning yellow and slowly dying. Here are the details

What Strain is it? Buddha seeds kali
How Many Plants? Originally 4, 2 died, 1 dying
Is it in Vegetative or Flowering Stage? Early vegetative/3 weeks.
If in Vegetative Stage... How Long? 1 week( see notes)
Indoor or Outdoor? indoor
Soil or Hydro? hydro
If Hydro, Reservoir size? 30l 4 pot wilma
If Hydro, Reservoir Temperature? 23 degrees c
If Hydro, what type of Medium? Cuttings in propogration rockwool placed in
clay pellet pots
If Hydro, what type of Setup? Wilma 4 pot clay pellet
Size (Wattage) of Light? How Many? 250, 1 MH light
Is it Air Cooled? yes
Temperature of Room/Cabinet? 27 degrees c
RH of Room/Cabinet? Mixed 5 caps(125 ml) of canna vegetative a and b into 50l container and filled up Wilma from that.
PH of Medium or Reservoir? 6.5
Any Pests? no
How Often are you Watering? 15m/hr with Wilma system
Type and Strength of Fertilizers used? Mixed 5 caps(125 ml) of canna vegetative a and b into 50l container and filled up Wilma from that.
Size or Square Footage of Room? 4 ft wide, 6 deep, triangular cross section ceiling at about 30 degrees (understairs cupboard)

I did mess up the first 2 weeks by using flowering instead of veg nutrient, currently trying to recover the last 2 survivors with veg nutrient. Originally grew the plant I cloned from here and got some nice output and haven't changed anything. Bottom leaves were going yellow and dropped off, some of the cuttings just wilted after a few days of looking ok, one plant originally grown from seed died shortly after transplant despite being well rooted during propogation. The ones not outright dying are not really starting to grow yet, and only one appears to not be wilting at this point. They have been on vegetative nutrients for a few days now and are still slowly dying.

Here are the picts:

If anyone can help I would appreciate it. Thank you so much.

SealieP!!

 

[Ganjahoarder]

You have nute burned them to death. What is your ppm's. Cuttings and seedlings need little to no nutes for the first 3-4 weeks.

 

[dragontoker]

Sealie when you try again read the how to grow Marijuana sticky. How to Grow Marijuana Everything You Need to Know
It will help you out a lot, @ least it did for me, theory wise.

Some of the things I noted from reading your description and seeing your pics.

PH is high, should be 5.8. If cuttings didnt have roots, use nothing but good water and maybe some superthrive or some other B supplement. If they had roots use the seedling formula for your nutrients. There is algae on the rockwool, I would cover these with more hydroton, so their not exposed to light, if your reservoir is open to light, cover it. Reservoir temp should be kept @ 18c, yours is a little high. Rockwool needs to be rinsed and soaked in the proper PH water before use, if you didnt do so.

Hope this helps some.

 

[SealieP]

Thank you both for your responses. Will see what I can do applying the changes.

Thanks again,
SealieP!!

 

[Bdogg]

First off, those babies are dead. Don't waste your time trying to revive them. It definitely appears as though your overpowering those babies with nutes, light, and possibly heat. Those are tiny little babies. The fact that you gave them flower nutes, even at low levels, probably overdosed them on phosphorus. Do you have a PPM meter? If so, your PPM should not be above 800. And that is if you are using a lot of supplements. With just A and B it really should not be above 500. If you do not have a PPM meter try using your fertilizer at 1/4 strength and stepping it up slowly. There is never really any reason to use nutes at full strength unless your plants are 5 feet tall. Also keeps your temps around 80-85 degrees during veg. And what kind of light do you have going? How many watts? Might be too much.

 

[Bdogg]

Sorry. Didn't see that you listed all that info. I'm so used to people not listing any info that when some one asks a question properly I'm thrown off. Anyway. Temps and light levels are o.k. I'm not super familiar with Canna nutrients. List PPM for the several days you vegged. Thats probably the problem...

 

[Bdogg]

And if your doing 15 minutes an hour with that drip emitter plugged straight into the rockwool that is way too much water. That kind of frequency is ok in hydroton and so that is probably what your thinking. However, you have to remember that that is way too much water for a newly rooted rockwool cube. You have to wait until the roots get a little bit settled into the hydroton before you start treating the plant like its being grown in hydroton. Your treating the plant like it is growing in hyrdoton but in reality it is still rockwool. Your causing a common problem called "damping off." This is killing them before they get a chance. Water them about every other day until your roots get established before you start your 15 minutes a hour watering cycle.

 

[SealieP]

Thanks for the help. I took out the plants and trying again. How long should I wait before transferring the cuttings I took last week (Thursday) from my mother plant? They are in a stewart propogator and about 4 inches under a 90w ufo led growlight.

Thanks,
SealieP!!

 

[Bdogg]

If they are in rockwool like the clones in the picture...? Wait until there are roots sticking out the bottom of the rockwool cube. If there are no roots sticking out the bottom then the clone isn't ready to transplant. If there were no roots showing on the bottom of the cube on your earlier attempt; then that may have been part of your problem as well.

 

[Bdogg]

BTW. This isn't what is killing your plants but your pH is too high. Keep it around 5.7 to 6.0 if you can. The so called "power band" of nutrient availability in Hydro is 5.5 to 6.5. So your on the high end of the spectrum. I.e. if you start at 5.5 then you can let it drift to 6.5 before changing the reservoir or at least adding pH down. If your start at 6.5 its gonna drift to 7.0 and higher before you know it.

 

[SealieP]

Yes the new cuttings are in rockwool and the previous were transferred before the roots were showing at the bottom. I got impatient. I will wait this time.

I am having trouble with my ph meters. I have several but they all seem to be inaccurate or I can't get them to zero in correctly. They will register 4 or 8 or something really off. So I have been using litmus paper to take the readings. I don't have a nutrient meter because they are just too expensive.

 

[SealieP]

Oh and thanks so much for helping me, I really apprecaite it.

 

[Bdogg]

No problem. Hit up your local hydro store and buy calibration solution if you haven't already. General Hydroponics brand is what I use because its pretty cheap and works o.k. although I hate Gen Hydro in general. Buy some 4.0 and some 7.0. I think the 4.0 is red and the 7.0 is green. Forgive me if you know all this already but its pretty important as pH is everything in hydro. First get a clean cup and poor the 4.0 solution in. Place the meter in the solution and calibrate it to 4.0 (if for some reason its reading way high or way low like 2.0 or lower or 6.0 or higher your meter is broken beyond calibration) then get a new clean cup or throughly wash out the one your using and pour in the 7.0 solution. Place the meter in the solution and calibrate to 7.0. Then again get a new clean cup and pour in the 4.0. Place the meter in the solution and calibrate to 4.0 one more time. This will calibrate your pH meter. Do this every couple weeks to keep the meter calibrated. Also, in my opinion the brand of the pen or meter makes a big difference. Hanna is kind of low quality in my opinion. Blue Lab is probably the best but Nutridip is good too and cheaper. I highly suggest investing in a NutriDip TriMeter. It measures pH, PPMs, and temperature. They are about 250 to 300 dollars a pop but they really are vital to a hydro grow. Keep your PPMs between 800 and 1400 depending on the strain, plant phase, plant size, and how many supplements you are using in addition to your A and B fertilizer. keep your pH between 5.5 and 6.5. 5.8 is optimal. And keep your temperature between 60 and 72 degrees farenheit and a lot of things will start falling into place before you know it. And yeah. If there are no roots sticking out the bottom of the rockwool you do not have a plant. You have a cutting sticking out of a rockwool cube. Obviously watering a cutting 15 minutes an hour with fertilizer is going to kill your cutting. Thats what happened. I know cloning isn't easy but keep it up and one day, without consciously changing anything, you'll be creating fully rooted clones in less than a week. It just takes experience. Make it easier on yourself by taking the largest, woodiest cuttings of your mother you can. They will take a little longer to root the bigger and woodier they are but they will be much more likely to survive and fend off pests and disease. Moreover, they will be hardier and better off when you actually start vegging them.

 

[Bdogg]

Also. I believe someone already mentioned this but it is good advice. Buy some Superthrive. It is a cheap supplement that a lot of beginners use as their first supplement but a lot of experts still use as well. It is just a cheap B vitamin supplement. But it will do wonders. B1 or Thiamine is a natural rooting hormone. Soak your initial rockwool cube in Superthrive and tap water. Do not use filtered or R/O water on your clones. Don't ask me why but they like tap water. Do not use fertilizer or anything else. Use just Superthrive and tap water. Lower the pH to around 5.5 and soak your rockwool cubes in the solution for about an hour. Grodan makes the best rockwool by far. Then take your cuttings, dip them in your rooting powder or gel. I like Hormex for powder and Roottech for gel. Place them firmly but gently in your cube and place them under a hood. And normal T12 or T8 cool white flourescent shoplights about 6 inches away from the clones tops. Your Metal Halide 250 watt is too much light and heat for tender clones and I believe even T5 grow flourescents are too much light and heat. Even expert grower have a clone success rate 90%. Heres my secret to cloning at 100%. I haven't lost a single clone in months. Give them a daily foliar spray of 1/8 strength veg fertilizer (I use SuperNutrients), seaweed (Botanicare's Seaplex), fulvic acid (FlavorFul by Humbolt Nutrients or Diamond Nectar by General Hydroponics if you need to go cheap), and a wetting agent or delivery agent. I use Saturator by Dutch Master. This same foliar is great to use all the way through veg and the first week of flower. Now my foliar has gotten so complicated with organic calcium supplements, organic magnesium supplements, fermented molasses, potassium silicate, etc. that i cannot justify someone growing 4 plants spending all the time and money on the program. But the basic foliar I gave is not expensive compared to the results it will bring. I promise you that giving that daily to your clones and bi-weekly to your plants up until the end of the first week of flower will make such a difference you will literally be amazed. Good luck!

 

[dragontoker]

You'll have better luck leaving the probe of your PH meter submerged in 7.1 calibration fluid when not in use. The probe will go bad if left to dry out. They sell storage solution but storing it in the calibration fluid works just as well. I have had the same Milwaukee PH meter for 15 years, never had to change a probe.

 

[Bdogg]

Oh yeah. Superthrive is also beneficial throughout veg. Just make sure you cut it out when you switch to flower. It has rooting hormones that will really stunt your flower growth and stretch your flower time into infinity.

 

[SealieP]

Thanks so much for all the help!!!! The superthrive has been ordered and going to wait until these newer clippings root and then probably post more questions.

Thanks all so much!
SealieP

 

[bobulak]

I don't have a nutrient meter because they are just too expensive.

Don't know if this is a good one or not but the ph meter i bought from them has been working accurately for 8 months now.

New LCD Digital TDS Meter Tester Water Quality ppm Purity Filter With battery | eBay

btw i think it was the nutes that killed them. Good luck on your next try.