Pruning Fan Leaves In Early Flower

P

PistolPete80

Well-Known Member
Couple questions for the community at large as I am contemplating some more pruning. Quick background, these are Jack47 photo's grown in FFOF and are on Day 14F.

As you can see, the canopy is looking pretty well and I've already stripped most of the lower nodes (not that you can see that in the pic) off a couple days ago. In looking at the canopy, there are some really large fan leaves blocking some of the slightly lower bud sites. I have been tucking them but they quickly come right back up.

Questions / Concerns:

  • Should I consider additional defoliation given I did a pretty healthy defoliation a couple days ago or wait?
  • How many fan leaves should I consider removing?
  • If I remove some, should always leave a fan leave that's connected to each bud site? Probably a stupid question, but thought I read somewhere about how the fan leaves give priority to the node with which it's associated with, hence if I removed all on that node it may suffer...if that makes sense...
  • Is there anything else I should know/consider that I may not be thinking about?

I swear this thing just keeps exploding every time I defoliate it. I keep telling myself to "leave it alone" but I just can't help myself in trying to optimize :)

As always, appreciate the communities help!
 

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Fan leaves perform a vital function. They are supplying the flowers with energy. The flowers them selves have very little chlorophyll so they DEPEND on the fan leaves to provide that energy all during the flower cycle.

Translocation is the term for moving energy and nutrients from 1 part of the plant to another.

The flowers dont need direct sunlight to build their reproductive organs. Those fan leaves will begin to fad to yellow as the flower cycle gets going full steam and the fan leaves will give back all that stored energy to the flowers in mid to late flower.

This process is called Senescence.

As those leaves begin to die after giving back all the stored nutrients, then the plant will begin a process of removing those old dead fan leaves. This process is called Abscission. The plant basically seals off the point on the stem where the leafs petiole attaches. Sort of like forming a scab to protect the plant from foreign pests entering a wound site.

When you cut the leaves off you are creating a wound site. Many of these will cause a lot of stress to the plant. Try to avoid any stress to a flowering plant specially early in flower.

Summary - plant flowers dont need direct sunlight - cutting stems creates stress - there is a natural progression to the leaf life cycle different from the plant life cycle.

Fan leaves are good. Let them FALL off naturally.
 
bobrown14 said:
Fan leaves perform a vital function. They are supplying the flowers with energy. The flowers them selves have very little chlorophyll so they DEPEND on the fan leaves to provide that energy all during the flower cycle.

Translocation is the term for moving energy and nutrients from 1 part of the plant to another.

The flowers dont need direct sunlight to build their reproductive organs. Those fan leaves will begin to fad to yellow as the flower cycle gets going full steam and the fan leaves will give back all that stored energy to the flowers in mid to late flower.

This process is called Senescence.

As those leaves begin to die after giving back all the stored nutrients, then the plant will begin a process of removing those old dead fan leaves. This process is called Abscission. The plant basically seals off the point on the stem where the leafs petiole attaches. Sort of like forming a scab to protect the plant from foreign pests entering a wound site.

When you cut the leaves off you are creating a wound site. Many of these will cause a lot of stress to the plant. Try to avoid any stress to a flowering plant specially early in flower.

Summary - plant flowers dont need direct sunlight - cutting stems creates stress - there is a natural progression to the leaf life cycle different from the plant life cycle.

Fan leaves are good. Let them FALL off naturally.
Click to expand...
Excellent, thank you for the detailed response that is very insightful. I guess when people recommend trimming fan leaves to allow more light into the bud sites, that's yet another bro science thing?
 
Opposed to removal, I prefer to tie down nodes, then bend and tuck fans to expose maximum number of bud sites to light, throughout the grow to achieve my desired shape. Organic soil auto grower.
 

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skirk said:
Opposed to removal, I prefer to tie down nodes, then bend and tuck fans to expose maximum number of bud sites to light, throughout the grow to achieve my desired shape. Organic soil auto grower.
Click to expand...
Very nice training there. I also bend, tie and tuck branches and leaves as well, but this damn thing is just insanely bushy. I think I've got it sorted out now though, this is my second time in flower so hoping it goes way better than my first set.
 
I woodn't trim off any fan leaves unless blocking air movement at btm of plant. Do that early to mid VEG.

Fan leaves make energy for flower production. Flowers dont have much chlorophyll so dont need much light to function. Fan leaves also give the flowers growth hormones so the flowers can bulk up. Flowers also give back energy to flowers when they go thru senescence.

Try not doing that next grow on one plant and see if she's overall bigger and healthier that her sister that has been trimmed back.

Finished product looks good - you are developing fox tails - that happens from biotic stress. Removing fan leaves is a form of biotic stress as is light intensity and heat among others.
 
bobrown14 said:
I woodn't trim off any fan leaves unless blocking air movement at btm of plant. Do that early to mid VEG.

Fan leaves make energy for flower production. Flowers dont have much chlorophyll so dont need much light to function. Fan leaves also give the flowers growth hormones so the flowers can bulk up. Flowers also give back energy to flowers when they go thru senescence.

Try not doing that next grow on one plant and see if she's overall bigger and healthier that her sister that has been trimmed back.

Finished product looks good - you are developing fox tails - that happens from biotic stress. Removing fan leaves is a form of biotic stress as is light intensity and heat among others.
Click to expand...

taking off fan leaves directs more plant energy to the growing buds and tips at top of plants ..
i like top trophy buds top and trim top and trim again trim trim

20200415_220541.jpg

20200415_220541.jpg

day 66 bc god bud 9 days of flush plant 1
 
Thats not how plants grow. Basic horticulture here.

Parse it out.

How wood taking off the energy source (fan leaves) direct more energy since they are the energy source??

I'm trying to help not criticize.

Fan leaves have many many very important functions. They are not just shading the flowers. If they were and usually do shade the flowers, why wood the plant do that if it wasn't helpful for the plant to grow those flowers??


Here's a good read check it out:

The Plant Leaves and Their Functions

I wood pay particular attention down toward the end of the article that says the following:

"3. Floral Induction. The plant leaves synthesize and translocate the flower-inducing hormone called florigen to the buds."

Also please read #4 about "Food Storage"


Florigen - What really happens when the days get shorter or when you cut back to 12 hours a day? When the light goes down to 12 hours or less, the leaves start to manufacture a substance that triggers flowering, which gets transported to all over the plant. This substance is called florigen or flowering hormone.
 
bobrown14 said:
Thats not how plants grow. Basic horticulture here.

Parse it out.

How wood taking off the energy source (fan leaves) direct more energy since they are the energy source??

I'm trying to help not criticize.

Fan leaves have many many very important functions. They are not just shading the flowers. If they were and usually do shade the flowers, why wood the plant do that if it wasn't helpful for the plant to grow those flowers??


Here's a good read check it out:

The Plant Leaves and Their Functions

I wood pay particular attention down toward the end of the article that says the following:

"3. Floral Induction. The plant leaves synthesize and translocate the flower-inducing hormone called florigen to the buds."

Also please read #4 about "Food Storage"


Florigen - What really happens when the days get shorter or when you cut back to 12 hours a day? When the light goes down to 12 hours or less, the leaves start to manufacture a substance that triggers flowering, which gets transported to all over the plant. This substance is called florigen or flowering hormone.
Click to expand...
try it.. sounds like your minds made up.. trim prune lower junk .. forces the enegy in the plant to the top bud ..

i dont care about lower garbage bud ..
20201031_222818.jpg

20201031_222818.jpg

needs to be trim and pruned again ...

need to go stir the cana butter

20201031_222246.jpg

20201031_222246.jpg

 
Its much more dense today and all the sides have been super-cropped.

Instead of 1 main stem super-cropped there's like 20 branches bent over. h


Having trouble with space now. lol

This is normal stuff for me tho so not in a panic. My soil is 6 years old. Just getting into the sweet spot I'm thinking.
 
bobrown14 said:
Its much more dense today and all the sides have been super-cropped.

Instead of 1 main stem super-cropped there's like 20 branches bent over. h


Having trouble with space now. lol

This is normal stuff for me tho so not in a panic. My soil is 6 years old. Just getting into the sweet spot I'm thinking.
Click to expand...

cut back let the light in .. trim.. many fan leaves cut off.. trim

20201108_191928.jpg

20201108_191928.jpg

 
PistolPete80 said:
Questions / Concerns:

  • Should I consider additional defoliation given I did a pretty healthy defoliation a couple days ago or wait?
  • How many fan leaves should I consider removing?
  • If I remove some, should always leave a fan leave that's connected to each bud site? Probably a stupid question, but thought I read somewhere about how the fan leaves give priority to the node with which it's associated with, hence if I removed all on that node it may suffer...if that makes sense...
  • Is there anything else I should know/consider that I may not be thinking about?
Click to expand...

I would advise dont prune at all unless yo have dead leaves or branches with issues like fungus
Instead use LST to get light and air flow to each leaf which is a "powerhouse" for the plant that produces sugars and nutes...and it will also encourage more growth instead of stunting growth.

Check the last like in my sig for some pruning advice from a scientist.
 
deltadubie said:
plant and buds be just fine missing some fan leaves more important direct light to growing bud sites..
Click to expand...

Then there's that pesky part about the flowers having very little chlorophyll in them.

So begs the question, what does the flower need more sun for?

The fan leaves are where the bud sites get their energy from. That points to the term I posted up there ^^^^ Translocation.


"Plants use a process called photosynthesis to make food. During photosynthesis, plants trap light energy with their leaves. Plants use the energy of the sun to change water and carbon dioxide into a sugar called glucose. Glucose is used by plants for energy and to make other substances like cellulose and starch. Cellulose is used in building cell walls. Starch is stored in seeds and other plant parts as a food source."



Then there's this:

"Translocation is the movement of materials from leaves to other tissues throughout the plant. Plants produce carbohydrates (sugars) in their leaves by photosynthesis, but non-photosynthetic parts of the plant also require carbohydrates and other organic and non-organic materials."

And this:

"Flowers are for reproduction, not photosynthesis"

I'm not making this stuff up.
 

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