dragontoker
New Member
I just changed the pic slightly. You dont need insulation in the crawlspace against the roof. Same thing goes for the attic.
Seeking advice on my new space
- Thread starter 420fied
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
Got it. Thank you very much.
IndoorHaze
New Member
The only thing I like better than grow journals is build outs. Wouldn't miss it!
IndoorHaze
New Member
The thinking behind insulating the attic roof is, if the local winds are calm, any heat rising from the garden exhaust will create a hot spot on the roof instead of being drawn out the gables.
dragontoker
New Member
I see your point but dont agree. Heat is going to rise to the coldest spot. That would be the gable in the winter. Same in the summer because the roof would still be much hotter then the ambient air around the gable. No wind needed if there is eave vents with air gap all the way to peak. Heat signature will always be the gable, insulation or not and if you do put insulation in the attic against the decking, you should have an air gap between insulation and decking. Personally I would never vent a grow room that creates heat and moisture into an attic space. Nothing but bad will come from this. I would figure out away to vent it to the dead chimney. Moisture in an attic will be a breeding ground, deck will eventually rot out.
IndoorHaze
New Member
Not sure where you learned this, but it's wrong. In a convective environment, heat will rise until it reaches a layer of equal temperature or, until it meets a physical barrier or, until it gives up enough heat to the surrounding air to reach equilibrium. In a cold attic with no breeze, the heat will rise until it meets the roof, and then spread out until it is a uniform layer. In doing so, it gives up heat to the roof. It will do so until it reaches thermal equilibrium. The hotspot will persist as long as the exhaust is running or until a breeze blows the plume apart.
In the summer, the heat will rise no higher than whatever strata of the attic is the same temperature.
With insulation [or some other barrier], the signature will be whatever few calories make it to the ends of the space before the temperatures equalize. This is quite a bit better than a hotspot.
I see where you're going and you sort of have a point. You're saying moist air will migrate above the insulation to the inner surface of the roof, and then get stuck there. Maybe instead of insulating the roof of the attic, 420fied could fab up a diffuser of some sort to mix the exhaust air with the air it's being dumped into. Lemme think about it.
dragontoker
New Member
Can you show me a drawing of the correct way to insulate the upstairs.
IndoorHaze
New Member
The upstairs?
dragontoker
New Member
Use the picture already up and please show me the correct way of insulating. I'm being non sarcastic. I would like to show the rest of the guys I work with to see what they think. Cause maybe all of the homes we have built over the years we have been doing it wrong, due to nobodys fault but the architect. We dont use gable vents though. We use eave vents and ridge vent.
After all, I'm not against learning new tricks. Thats why I'm on here.
After all, I'm not against learning new tricks. Thats why I'm on here.
IndoorHaze
New Member
Sounds sarcastic to me.
Good for you, although I doubt the architect was thinking stealthy grow op at the time.
Hopefully you learned about convection then. Too bad you seem to have missed the part of my post where I agreed with you on not insulating the attic roof.
dragontoker
New Member
You have a nasty side. I just wanted you to show me what was wrong with the picture I posted.
IndoorHaze
New Member
Don't know why you're trying to start a fight. I already posted, twice, I agreed with you on the insulation, what more do you want?
If your feelings are hurt because I corrected your absurd concept of convection, well sorry, but I'm not the type to let an obvious fallacy like that go unchallenged. There's already too much BS that's passed as fact in the 420 world.
- Thread starter
- #33
I appreciate the feedback guys. The attic roof will not be insulated. To aid in the discussion I want to add some pics.
Here's the attic space above the flower room. You can see the gable vent.
Looking the other way, back towards the veg room. There's a gable vent down there on the other end, too.
Side space on the other side of the knee wall.
After the R30 was added to the knee wall.
Thanks again.
Here's the attic space above the flower room. You can see the gable vent.
Looking the other way, back towards the veg room. There's a gable vent down there on the other end, too.
Side space on the other side of the knee wall.
After the R30 was added to the knee wall.
Thanks again.
dragontoker
New Member
420,
In the last pic it shows you have the vapor barrier on the insulation facing the unheated crawl space. I'm sure you dont feel like correcting it but it should face the grow room. Otherwise you trap moisture in the wall. Vapor barrier always faces the conditioned space, except in some cases down south or if code dictates otherwise. If you were to insulate the floor in that crawlspace, paper would face towards the living areas below. The crawlspace insulation can be easily corrected by removing the paper from the insulation or if not stapled down just reverse it and face the paper in. If you remove the paper, apply a vapor barrier to the inside walls of the grow room, such as white plastic.
There is some good info on a few different sites. Energy Star, Lowes How to Projects and many others. Running insulation the wrong way is pretty common, in most cases home owners dont ever realize the problems they have caused until a contractor opens the walls up for a remodel or whatever and shows the mold growth, rot, bugs etc.
Its going to be fun seeing your finished product, knowing what your other setups have looked like and the great/detailed journals you have produced.
Sorry for the chatter/bickering clogging up your thread.
In the last pic it shows you have the vapor barrier on the insulation facing the unheated crawl space. I'm sure you dont feel like correcting it but it should face the grow room. Otherwise you trap moisture in the wall. Vapor barrier always faces the conditioned space, except in some cases down south or if code dictates otherwise. If you were to insulate the floor in that crawlspace, paper would face towards the living areas below. The crawlspace insulation can be easily corrected by removing the paper from the insulation or if not stapled down just reverse it and face the paper in. If you remove the paper, apply a vapor barrier to the inside walls of the grow room, such as white plastic.
There is some good info on a few different sites. Energy Star, Lowes How to Projects and many others. Running insulation the wrong way is pretty common, in most cases home owners dont ever realize the problems they have caused until a contractor opens the walls up for a remodel or whatever and shows the mold growth, rot, bugs etc.
Its going to be fun seeing your finished product, knowing what your other setups have looked like and the great/detailed journals you have produced.
Sorry for the chatter/bickering clogging up your thread.
Evo-Rat-93
Well-Known Member
Puff is right about the vapor barrier.You should also use insulation baffle on slanted part of ceiling to ensure proper air flow between ceiling and roof to prevent moisture buildup from sweating.
cross1420
New Member
great info here looking forward to your new room 420, your going to end up the 2L sog king lol
- Thread starter
- #37
Thank you so much for your feedback. That's why I made this thread. So people like you, who know more than me, could point me in the right direction. I will definitely be turning the insulation around. I simply didn't know any better.
Puff is right about the vapor barrier.You should also use insulation baffle on slanted part of ceiling to ensure proper air flow between ceiling and roof to prevent moisture buildup from sweating.
I placed baffles in the slanted part of the roof. I just didn't add them to the drawing.
Thank you.
Thanks again guys
SmokzAlot
New Member
I personally would stay away from pushing any air through my roof or attic space. Too many issues with heat and humidity. Heat signature for sure. Why is there no snow on that roof? My suggestion would be a lung room. Build an environment to draw air from. Exhaust heat via lights and odor via separate system. If at all possible I would exhaust under the house in a well vented crawl space. The air will cool significantly in the distance traveled as well. Booster fans will more than likely be needed due to distance. I the winter months one could use the heat indoors from the lights.
If you were small scale you could get it easy, yours small scale? I think not.
JMO
If you were small scale you could get it easy, yours small scale? I think not.
JMO
- Thread starter
- #39
I understand your point and I appreciate your feedback. Remember, that my plan evolves as I go. Originally, I had planned to run (6) units at max production. After re-evaluating things, I believe that I will max out at (4) HPS units in the flower room. Maybe even (3). I run(2) HPS units now and the snow doesn't melt any differently on my roof and there's less space between the actual roof where I am now than there is in the new space. Therefore, I believe that I'll be ok if I keep it to (3) or (4) units.
With 24" x 24" hoods and a 6" gap in between I can still generate a light footprint of 24" x 90" running (3) HPS units. The grow footprint will be slightly larger.
A 2L has a footprint of 4 1/4" so I could run (21) rows of (6) which would give me a total of (146) at a time which would still be very nice hauls.
Still planning. Still thinking.
dragontoker
New Member
More and more homes nowadays have washers and dryers on their second floors. If our all intrusive government flew over, could they really tell the difference between yours or your neighbors heat signature. Say you had the exhaust pumping out a side wall with a dryer louver on the outside. Can they tell if you are using a dryer or a grow room, I dont think so. Could they tell whether it was your high efficiency furnace pumping out a sidewall, I dont think so. I do not know how they do what they do or what they look for but my guess is they arent looking for exhaust pouring out but more of a heat signature from un-cooled lights. Which to me would show a big footprint. If exhaust was sucked directly from outside ran straight through your lights and then directly to the outside, the footprint would minimal. Just before it exits you could put a Y fitting, you could use this hook up for the exhaust of the room, the fan pushing this connection should have the filter attached to it. The intake for the room would be separate and not even on ducting, maybe a mechanical louvered vent controlled by a temp controller. This way your fan filter combo will always be filtering, the exhaust for the lights will always be on, at least when the lights are on and the intake for the room wont be pulling in cold air unless needed.
When I get time I'll use your original drawing and show you what is running through my head. No idea if its a good way to do it or a good idea,,,,I'm only on my first cup of coffee.
When I get time I'll use your original drawing and show you what is running through my head. No idea if its a good way to do it or a good idea,,,,I'm only on my first cup of coffee.
